OU Football 2024 Season

[Bill Robertson]

This is the first time the outcome only was mentioned as meaningless. For that matter, your earlier post stated " if we had won a meaningless bowl game", calling the bowl game itself (thus everything that came along with it) meaningless.

The other issue I have with essentially taking the "we forfeit the bowl game" approach (ok, this may be a little extreme, but), now those that recruit against us can say we have a losing record or we can't even get a winning record. While it doesn't matter as much as the bags (of money) these days, it still means something (athletes want to win).

It means very little to nothing to the recruits. They understand as well or better than anyone else that the teams that play in bowl games aren't representative of the team they could be playing on next year.

[Dob Hooligan]

It means very little to nothing to the recruits. They understand as well or better than anyone else that the teams that play in bowl games aren't representative of the team they could be playing on next year.

"Young man, we know you are just the person to help us get those wins. Nobody more capable!"

[Bill Robertson]

"Young man, we know you are just the person to help us get those wins. Nobody more capable!"

Nice quote. Has plenty to do with regular season, conference championships, national championships. Zilch to do with bowl games.

[BDP]

This is the first time the outcome only was mentioned as meaningless. For that matter, your earlier post stated " if we had won a meaningless bowl game", calling the bowl game itself (thus everything that came along with it) meaningless.

The value of experience was acknowledged in several posts discussing the bowl game.

The other issue I have with essentially taking the "we forfeit the bowl game" approach (ok, this may be a little extreme, but), now those that recruit against us can say we have a losing record or we can't even get a winning record. While it doesn't matter as much as the bags (of money) these days, it still means something (athletes want to win).

No even remotely suggested forfeiting it. If you read the thread in context, it's easily understood that the posts were about drawing conclusions about the status of the team / program from a bowl game. Yes, athletes want to win, but they all completely understand that bowl games should be viewed as exhibitions that do not represent the team going forward. They are participating under the new structure and understand it much better than most fans do at this point.

Just look at OU's schedule next year. It should be just as hard as this year because it's basically the same, right? There's no way to know that. It's likely that at least half of those teams will have different starting QBs that were playing for another school this year. And that's just the QBs. Can you look at their bowl games and draw any conclusion as to what those teams will be like next year? I certainly wouldn't put any money on it.

[dankrutka]

Nice quote. Has plenty to do with regular season, conference championships, national championships. Zilch to do with bowl games.

Why did 30,000 OU fans even show up for the game then? This is what fans say to rationalize their team losing a bowl game. If you want proof then just ask people about OU's bowl game with Alabama from a decade ago...

Besides, so many of the reasons why OU lost the bowl game are the same reasons that OU regularly loses games under Venables. The game provided another data point on Venables shortcomings as a coach. I promise you that OU's players and coaches tried to win the bowl game, but they couldn't.

[BDP]

Why did 30,000 OU fans even show up for the game then?

45,000 OU fans showed up to the spring intraquad scrimmage. lol. It's entertainment after all.

Look, OU brought 56 players to the bowl game, 24 of which were freshman. The team you saw play in Ft Worth is not the team you will see next year. It wasn't even the team you saw THIS year.

If you need a reason to bash BV or the program or whatever, there's more valid things you can focus your rage on than the bowl game.

Sure, it was good experience for some guys and of course they wanted to win. It's just not a relevant data point for anything else. That's all anyone is saying.

[Bill Robertson]

Why did 30,000 OU fans even show up for the game then? This is what fans say to rationalize their team losing a bowl game. If you want proof then just ask people about OU's bowl game with Alabama from a decade ago...

Besides, so many of the reasons why OU lost the bowl game are the same reasons that OU regularly loses games under Venables. The game provided another data point on Venables shortcomings as a coach. I promise you that OU's players and coaches tried to win the bowl game, but they couldn't.

Attendance of a bowl game indicates fan loyalty. It has nothing to do with the outcome meaning anything. Either about the ability of our current HC or about the future of the team. I don't put much stock in the win over Alabama. They might not have been entirely motivated to play their best game after not having a chance at the championship.

I get it. You don't think BV is a viable HC. I don't completely disagree. He may end up not being HC material. But this past season and in particular a bowl game aren't the best indicators of his potential.
Players not playing are not excuses. They're viable factors that effect the ability of a sports team to play well or not. The KC Chiefs have been one of or the best team in the NFL for a while. It can't be argued that their coaching staff knows what they're doing. If Mahommes, Kelsey, the entire OL snd entire WR corps didn't play for one season they wouldn't make the playoffs.

[dankrutka]

Look, OU brought 56 players to the bowl game, 24 of which were freshman. The team you saw play in Ft Worth is not the team you will see next year. It wasn't even the team you saw THIS year.

Actually, the defense that played in the bowl game is potentially the exact defense that is expected to start next season.

[Bill Robertson]

Actually, the defense that played in the bowl game is potentially the exact defense that is expected to start next season.

Somewhat. There are incoming guys that aren't here yet, JC transfers, portal guys. Let next year form before you condemn it.

[BDP]

Somewhat. There are incoming guys that aren't here yet, JC transfers, portal guys. Let next year form before you condemn it.

Nope. It's going to be exactly the same. In fact, we're sticking with just the 56 guys that went to the bowl game. Nothing's gonna change.

Except the co-DC. Just that. Nothing else.

[dankrutka]

Somewhat. There are incoming guys that aren't here yet, JC transfers, portal guys. Let next year form before you condemn it.

What incoming players are expected to start? I don't think you're doing your homework. The only players who might start that didn't play are injured players—Kendall Dolby and Gentry Williams. Dolby's injury was really bad so he may not be 100%, and Williams may not win the job anyway. Otherwise, there's a good chance that next year's starters all played in the bowl game.

[PhiAlpha]

Actually, the defense that played in the bowl game is potentially the exact defense that is expected to start next season.

Yeah and a lot of the guys that didn’t start aren’t going to get as many snaps as they did in the bowl game. For one, I don’t expect Kanak, who was more responsible for that 95 yard TD run than probably anyone else, to be in the game in similar situations next year unless he makes some strides this off season nor is Bogonowski who was also way out of position on that play.

[PhiAlpha]

What incoming players are expected to start? I don't think you're doing your homework. The only players who might start that didn't play are injured players—Kendall Dolby and Gentry Williams. Dolby's injury was really bad so he may not be 100%, and Williams may not win the job anyway. Otherwise, there's a good chance that next year's starters all played in the bowl game.

Most of the big mistakes weren’t made by the guys that started.

Id also argue that the reason Navy WRs got so wide open a few times was due to busted plays that were extended because we couldn’t get to their QB fast enough and lost contain after selling out to stop the run which put our corners and safeties in more one on one situations than they typically faced. Our secondary was our only real weakness on defense this year but it was still pretty good aside from the occasional big play. There weren’t that many situation in which receivers got wide open all season against better passing offenses.

[Bill Robertson]

What incoming players are expected to start? I don't think you're doing your homework. The only players who might start that didn't play are injured players—Kendall Dolby and Gentry Williams. Dolby's injury was really bad so he may not be 100%, and Williams may not win the job anyway. Otherwise, there's a good chance that next year's starters all played in the bowl game.

Ok. I give. You're right. Teams never get portal, JC or incoming freshman players that work out. The players that aren't on campus yet might as well go somewhere else because OU is the only team that never adds new players.

[bamarsha]

It means very little to nothing to the recruits. They understand as well or better than anyone else that the teams that play in bowl games aren't representative of the team they could be playing on next year.

You are only looking at the player being recruited by the school in question. Don't forget that all the other schools are recruiting against the school in question. They won't hold back letting the recruit know that they are a better program that the other school. Again, money will take more priority in the days of NIL, but recruiters don't hold anything back.

[bamarsha]

The value of experience was acknowledged in several posts discussing the bowl game.



No even remotely suggested forfeiting it. If you read the thread in context, it's easily understood that the posts were about drawing conclusions about the status of the team / program from a bowl game. Yes, athletes want to win, but they all completely understand that bowl games should be viewed as exhibitions that do not represent the team going forward. They are participating under the new structure and understand it much better than most fans do at this point.

Just look at OU's schedule next year. It should be just as hard as this year because it's basically the same, right? There's no way to know that. It's likely that at least half of those teams will have different starting QBs that were playing for another school this year. And that's just the QBs. Can you look at their bowl games and draw any conclusion as to what those teams will be like next year? I certainly wouldn't put any money on it.

By others, yes, but not by the poster I was responding to (at least that I saw).

So, are they meaningless? If so, no one cares if they we, including the athletes. I really don't think that's true, so there is, at least some, meaning in the bowl games. Most of the meaning is for the guys coming back the next season. All those practices and the game experience is priceless to those competing for PT (playing time) next year. Plus, fans can use it as bragging rights, coaches can uses wins as selling points while opposing coaches can use it to recruit against you (look, they can't even win a bowl game, etc.). Now, it doesn't mean as much as winning the national championship (no one said that) or even a CFP game (no one said that either), but there is still meaning.

To put it another way, if the bowl game was meaningless, so was the last game of the regular season against LSU. We were already bowl eligible, so it wasn't going to improve OUr standing in any way, shape, or form (no CFP win or lose, or even a conference championship game). So now some regular season games are meaningless, based on this logic.

[dankrutka]

Ok. I give. You're right. Teams never get portal, JC or incoming freshman players that work out. The players that aren't on campus yet might as well go somewhere else because OU is the only team that never adds new players.

We've already added portal players and none of them are on defense. The coaches have said they don't plan to pursue defensive players in the portal because they're trying to retain the guys who played in the bowl game. The only guys I've heard any smoke on are the CB from Washington State and the DE from Florida State, but neither of them would be guaranteed to start by any means. Again, you're just saying stuff without doing any research.

[dankrutka]

Most of the big mistakes weren’t made by the guys that started.

Id also argue that the reason Navy WRs got so wide open a few times was due to busted plays that were extended because we couldn’t get to their QB fast enough and lost contain after selling out to stop the run which put our corners and safeties in more one on one situations than they typically faced. Our secondary was our only real weakness on defense this year but it was still pretty good aside from the occasional big play. There weren’t that many situation in which receivers got wide open all season against better passing offenses.

I actually think the defense is pretty good. They just seem to bust too often and give up long plays. I like our secondary (even though our depth transferred) and our d-line is solid, especially if RMT returns.

Unfortunately, Kanak is in line to play a lot next year with Lewis Carter entering the portal. Venables has completely whiffed on linebackers two cycles in a row and can't even keep the third linebacker in the rotation. Other young linebackers have already busted and transferred. As of now, we have a good linebacker in Kip Lewis, a decent one in Kobie McKenzie, and then there's Kanak next up. One injury and he's a starter. He's going to play and, yes, it's a problem. The guy can never get lined up or read plays correctly.

[Dob Hooligan]

You are only looking at the player being recruited by the school in question. Don't forget that all the other schools are recruiting against the school in question. They won't hold back letting the recruit know that they are a better program that the other school. Again, money will take more priority in the days of NIL, but recruiters don't hold anything back.

Here's what a kid (and his uncle) want to know-

1. Will I play?

2. What will I get paid to play on Saturday?

3. Can you help me get paid to play on Sunday?

[PhiAlpha]

I actually think the defense is pretty good. They just seem to bust too often and give up long plays. I like our secondary (even though our depth transferred) and our d-line is solid, especially if RMT returns.

Unfortunately, Kanak is in line to play a lot next year with Lewis Carter entering the portal. Venables has completely whiffed on linebackers two cycles in a row and can't even keep the third linebacker in the rotation. Other young linebackers have already busted and transferred. As of now, we have a good linebacker in Kip Lewis, a decent one in Kobie McKenzie, and then there's Kanak next up. One injury and he's a starter. He's going to play and, yes, it's a problem. The guy can never get lined up or read plays correctly.

I think we’re going to spend some money on a linebacker in the portal that will take some of those minutes with Carter leaving. That said I do think Kanak will play and will be better after another offseason at the position (kinda wish we would move him to H Back…he was a great RB in HS and could be useful there given our issues at TE).

[BoulderSooner]

I think we’re going to spend some money on a linebacker in the portal that will take some of those minutes with Carter leaving. That said I do think Kanak will play and will be better after another offseason at the position (kinda wish we would move him to H Back…he was a great RB in HS and could be useful there given our issues at TE).

i doubt the spend much of anyting on a LBer ..

Osomingho (bad spelling) is likely moving to Will from cheetah (or will play both) and will back up Kip and Kanak will back up at the Mike ..

dolby and hopefully kendal daniels will be at the cheetah .

[PhiAlpha]

i doubt the spend much of anyting on a LBer ..

Osomingho (bad spelling) is likely moving to Will from cheetah (or will play both) and will back up Kip and Kanak will back up at the Mike ..

dolby and hopefully kendal daniels will be at the cheetah .

yeah Kendall Daniel’s was who I was referring to, just wasn’t sure how much it was going to cost.

[BDP]

By others, yes, but not by the poster I was responding to (at least that I saw).

So, are they meaningless? If so, no one cares if they we, including the athletes. I really don't think that's true, so there is, at least some, meaning in the bowl games. Most of the meaning is for the guys coming back the next season. All those practices and the game experience is priceless to those competing for PT (playing time) next year. Plus, fans can use it as bragging rights, coaches can uses wins as selling points while opposing coaches can use it to recruit against you (look, they can't even win a bowl game, etc.). Now, it doesn't mean as much as winning the national championship (no one said that) or even a CFP game (no one said that either), but there is still meaning.

To put it another way, if the bowl game was meaningless, so was the last game of the regular season against LSU. We were already bowl eligible, so it wasn't going to improve OUr standing in any way, shape, or form (no CFP win or lose, or even a conference championship game). So now some regular season games are meaningless, based on this logic.

Pretty much 'no' to all of that,

But I have been convinced that the word "meaningless" is a much stronger word than I thought it was, especially in context of describing a bowl game. I used it because I thought we were talking about what conclusions could be drawn from the bowl game in context of the program's health going forward.

I didn't mean to suggest that it meant nothing to everyone who participated in it.

Everyone who played in that game is a D-1 Football Player. That does mean something. That's petty much the top 2 percentile of football players of those that played in that class of high school players. All these guys are objectively good.

But seriously. The Bowl Game Against Navy is simply a data point that should be ignored and every "recruit" knows that and also no recruit today looks at bowl games any more, if they ever did.

HALF of D-1 starting football players declared they are going to play for a different school next year before bowl season even started. Half of the starting QBs for power 4 conferences this year were transfers. Half of the starting QBs in the playoffs this year were transfers.

This isn't your grandpa's college football.

Every year is free agency. Bowl games are try-outs.

[BoulderSooner]

What incoming players are expected to start? I don't think you're doing your homework. The only players who might start that didn't play are injured players—Kendall Dolby and Gentry Williams. Dolby's injury was really bad so he may not be 100%, and Williams may not win the job anyway. Otherwise, there's a good chance that next year's starters all played in the bowl game.

and incoming DE is 1000% expected to start ..

and very very likely a portal incomings CB will be expected to start ..

and very likely an incoming Cheetah will be expected to start .. ..

so no there is NOT a good chance that next years starters all played in the bowl game ... there is almost 0 % chance of that

[dankrutka]

Who is the incoming DE that is going to start? And, no, I don’t think O’Connor will start if he commits. I think he’ll be in the rotation. And I’m pretty sure Dolby or Omosigho will start at Cheetah. So, yeah, no one has been able to name one actual player who is for sure starting on defense. The larger point being that the defense that played against Navy is our defense, which I don’t think it is a bad thing.