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Thread: University Town Center

  1. #2501

    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    The Ada comparison is wild nonsense. Without OU Norman is still a large suburb in the OKC metro with a population of over 120k people, that is night and day from Ada out in the middle of nowhere with barely 16k. That kind of hyperbole doesn't help the argument that Norman should approve this TIF when the vote happens.
    lol with out OU it would not be over 120k ...

    it would be smaller then moore

  2. #2502

    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
    lol with out OU it would not be over 120k ...

    it would be smaller then moore
    But still nowhere near the size of Ada, I am glad you agree.

  3. #2503

    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by bison34 View Post
    But again, if OU moved, there would be a large amount of people who wouldn't live there. 1,000s of professors and other college employees would live in OKC, not Norman. And if OU had never located in Norman, then they wouldnt have 120k. Then what would they do?

    Yes, they'd be bigger than, Ada, but in terms of importance, they would be the same.
    Norman would still be a suburb in the OKC Metro which would make them more important that Ada by far. Just accept that it was a bad comparison.

  4. #2504
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    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by bamarsha View Post
    ...OU is a football school, not basketball. ....
    Don't look now but both Sooner basketball teams are highly ranked. Women #10, Men #13. Football not ranked at all. Maybe OU is a basketball school and all the bandwagon fans just need a decent place to watch it in that is easy to access, filled with amenities, and is surrounded by real life activity and life. What a novel concept.

  5. Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Don't look now but both Sooner basketball teams are highly ranked. Women #10, Men #13. Football not ranked at all. Maybe OU is a basketball school and all the bandwagon fans just need a decent place to watch it in that is easy to access, filled with amenities, and is surrounded by real life activity and life. What a novel concept.
    That would be great if it became both a football and basketball school (to go with the softball and gymnastics, but they don't make money).

    When I went to OU, the men where sold out all the time (Sampson had players like Ryan Minor and Nate Edrmann). However, excluding employees and family, I may have been the only other person attending the women's games (pre Coale, but still had some good players). Both teams just under 5,000 fans per game so far this season despite both being ranked (men at #13 women at #10).

  6. #2506

    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    Norman would still be a suburb in the OKC Metro which would make them more important that Ada by far. Just accept that it was a bad comparison.
    Should have compared it with Guthrie...

    But its moot because Norman doesnt exist without OU and OU doesnt exist without Norman.

    Sure OU could have been founded in a different spot but a town is still going to pop up around to support the university. Its a symbiotic relationship which is probably more in Normans favor now with the growth of OKC and less of a reliance on OU.

  7. #2507

    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by PhiAlpha View Post
    I mean you could make the same argument about the Thunder but OKC passed the arena vote by 71%.
    Because a new downtown OKC arena and its main tenant the Thunder matter more by a factor of 50. There is no comparison between the two arenas. One will have immensely more patrons, way bigger economic impact, and of course a better product on the court. Personally speaking, I didnt love the okc arena proposal and also wouldnt love the norman arena deal either if I lived there.

    I'll make a prediction. When Norman voters kill this arena TIF, within a year you will see those arena adjacent apartments announced anyways. It already makes too much sense to have apartments at UNP and announcing them as part of the arena development was only to help boost the TIF package.

  8. #2508

    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    And the owners of the Thunder put a product on the floor people will support. Joe C and OU, not so much.
    LOL, you know they’re one of a handful of undefeated teams in the country right now, right? They’ve been mediocre, no doubt but they actually appear to be a decent team this year.

  9. #2509

    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by bison34 View Post
    But again, if OU moved, there would be a large amount of people who wouldn't live there. 1,000s of professors and other college employees would live in OKC, not Norman. And if OU had never located in Norman, then they wouldnt have 120k. Then what would they do?

    Yes, they'd be bigger than, Ada, but in terms of importance, they would be the same.
    Without OU, Norman would be more like Yukon. Maybe a small Edmond but it also benefits from hosting a university.

    OU being in Norman makes the city and there’s little to no argument against that. It would just be a run of the mill suburb without it.

  10. Default Re: University Town Center

    I can't be in the minority here, college basketball is terrible to watch. When you have the Thunder down the road why would you watch college bball?

  11. #2511

    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by PhiAlpha View Post
    LOL, you know they’re one of a handful of undefeated teams in the country right now, right? They’ve been mediocre, no doubt but they actually appear to be a decent team this year.
    I have been around long enough to know that pre-conference record is not indicative of success come January. A ton of nose dives in the last decade will bear that out.

  12. #2512

    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by PhiAlpha View Post
    Without OU, Norman would be more like Yukon. Maybe a small Edmond but it also benefits from hosting a university.

    OU being in Norman makes the city and there’s little to no argument against that. It would just be a run of the mill suburb without it.
    That's a fair way to put it!

  13. #2513
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    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by josefromtulsa View Post
    Should have compared it with Guthrie...

    But its moot because Norman doesnt exist without OU and OU doesnt exist without Norman.
    OU would exist. OU doesn't need Norman as much as Norman needs them. Had OU been placed in Yukon or Del City it would have still been a large state university. OSU does fine in a fairly remote small Oklahoma town. OU would have too. But, just like OSU makes Stillwater a much stronger town, OU makes Norman disproportionally stronger.

  14. #2514

    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by josefromtulsa View Post
    But its moot because Norman doesnt exist without OU and OU doesnt exist without Norman.
    Truth. The point is moot.

  15. #2515

    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by josefromtulsa View Post

    But its moot because Norman doesnt exist without OU and OU doesnt exist without Norman.
    OU has been around LONGER then the city of Norman ...it existed without Norman .... the city of Norman has NEVER existed without OU

  16. #2516

    Default Re: University Town Center

    so back to the fact that this won't actually cost the city anything, except concession sales tax on some 40 events... what are the other problems people have with this? oh that's right, they think if we cause it to fail, all of these developments will still just magically happen, even though they haven't for the past 2 decades

  17. #2517

    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
    OU has been around LONGER then the city of Norman ...it existed without Norman .... the city of Norman has NEVER existed without OU
    Lol, No, it HASN'T.
    Norman incorporated 5.13.1891
    First classes held at O.U., Sept.1892

  18. #2518

    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by jedicurt View Post
    so back to the fact that this won't actually cost the city anything, except concession sales tax on some 40 events... what are the other problems people have with this? oh that's right, they think if we cause it to fail, all of these developments will still just magically happen, even though they haven't for the past 2 decades
    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the city the guarantor on the bond payments? So if the TIF doesn't bring in enough money to pay the bonds the city has to pick it up. I think the original proposal didn't spell out who would actually own the arena but the city would be responsible for the maintenance, staff, utilities and what not?

  19. #2519
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    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    Lol, No, it HASN'T.
    Norman incorporated 5.13.1891
    First classes held at O.U., Sept.1892
    So you claim OU was created because Norman incorporated.

    This whole argument has officially gotten childish.

  20. #2520

    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy Martin View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the city the guarantor on the bond payments? So if the TIF doesn't bring in enough money to pay the bonds the city has to pick it up. I think the original proposal didn't spell out who would actually own the arena but the city would be responsible for the maintenance, staff, utilities and what not?
    I believe OU was going to lease the venue from the city.

  21. #2521

    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    So you claim OU was created because Norman incorporated.

    This whole argument has officially gotten childish.
    No such claim was made. Go back and read what I responded to and then read my response. Good grief.
    Get a grip man.

  22. #2522

    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    Coping by bashing Normanites because they dont want to bail out OU with a costly subsidized arena is quite hilarious to me. Maybe take the crimson shaded glasses off for a second and step back and wonder if Norman is really going to get $600 million returned in any way from a small college arena. Most rightly see that they wont, the promises are shaky, the costs are too high and why should they be responsible for OU's decades of inaction on Lloyd Noble or an on campus alternative.
    Norman would make it money back quickly within a few years from the sales tax that it brings in. Then they can put money towards other projects that need done all over the city.

  23. #2523

    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    Lol, No, it HASN'T.
    Norman incorporated 5.13.1891
    First classes held at O.U., Sept.1892
    OU was founded in 1890 ...

  24. #2524

    Default Re: University Town Center

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy Martin View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the city the guarantor on the bond payments? So if the TIF doesn't bring in enough money to pay the bonds the city has to pick it up. I think the original proposal didn't spell out who would actually own the arena but the city would be responsible for the maintenance, staff, utilities and what not?
    they would not have been

  25. #2525

    Default Re: University Town Center

    "On December 19, 1890, the first territorial legislature, following its practice of parceling out state institutions on the basis of coalition politics, placed the University of Oklahoma (OU) in Norman. The legislature stipulated that the town donate forty acres for a campus and raise ten thousand dollars through bond sales to construct a building. The town, sensing the enormous economic benefits that would result, complied with the requirements on December 14, 1891. Before the money was raised, Gov. George Steele appointed a six-member board of regents to administer the institution."

    Source:https://www.okhistory.org/publicatio...ry?entry=UN010

    Note that the first students and David Ross Boyd did not arrive to Norman until 1892.

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