University Town Center

[Rover]

Just for the record, OU men's basketball just had another game at McCasland Field House on Saturday (12/7/24).

Wait.... all the students didn't show up since it was on campus? Shocking.

It is amazing how apathetic the Norman businesses and general population are in supporting anything OU. Most towns/cities that have a major university in it is rabidly supportive of it. But not so much in Norman. There seems to be a jealousy or resentment of the very thing that gives their community life and a list of opportunities and amenities that wouldn't remotely exist without the university's presence. I guess people fight what they can't control.

[mattjank]

i mean OU women's Gymnastics averaged 8400 in attendance last season, and adjusted their setup as they hope for around 10,000 a meet this year. And you claim having the off campus arena will make it worse, when i can tell you clearly that most of my friends from college who used to be the crazy ones in the student section say they would attend way more games at UNP because it would be almost 20 minutes closer each way to their homes in Edmond... i am on the side that games will be more attended when we stop thinking it's students who go and realize that it's alum who mostly don't live in norman.

Agree. And the game at McCaslin was limited to students and some donors. Shows that even in the heart of campus students are not showing up.

[cinnamonjock]

I disagree that Norman hates OU. People, both townies and students, can only go to so many sporting events, regardless of what kind of sport it is. People like attending the football games because the university (typically) can field a good team and makes it fun. There is also a lot of history regarding OU football. OU has also been able to have successful gymnastics and softball programs. The successful programs attract money, which helps make those programs more successful. Its hard to blame big money donors for not wanting to invest in a sport that isn't great and is not well attended.

Sure, if OU could come up with a T. Boone Pickens type donor to build a new arena in the heart of campus, then basketball would probably be much more compelling, but everyone on this forum considers that a pipe-dream.

Oklahoma generally and the OKC metro specifically has a basketball team everyone roots for, so it isn't much of a mystery why OU basketball gets the short end of the stick.

[Rover]

I disagree that Norman hates OU. People, both townies and students, can only go to so many sporting events, regardless of what kind of sport it is. People like attending the football games because the university (typically) can field a good team and makes it fun. There is also a lot of history regarding OU football. OU has also been able to have successful gymnastics and softball programs. The successful programs attract money, which helps make those programs more successful. Its hard to blame big money donors for not wanting to invest in a sport that isn't great and is not well attended.

Sure, if OU could come up with a T. Boone Pickens type donor to build a new arena in the heart of campus, then basketball would probably be much more compelling, but everyone on this forum considers that a pipe-dream.

Oklahoma generally and the OKC metro specifically has a basketball team everyone roots for, so it isn't much of a mystery why OU basketball gets the short end of the stick.

There are plenty of people in Norman who aren't Thunder game attenders that could support OU, and they just don't. They are just apathetic when it comes to supporting the main business generator in their town. They love the advantages and piggy backing off it, but don't make a huge effort to support or promote it. They've become spoiled.

[jonblatho]

And it was horribly attended. Looked like there was about 1500. Outside of football and softball, it's embarrassing how bad the majority of our sports are attended. In that regard, we're not SEC ready. Having an off campus arena will also be laughed at by the SEC. OU has a long ways to go.

It was the "student appreciation" game...the Saturday night before finals week. Awful choice on OU's part.

[onthestrip]

Good. I don't blame them. Why help Norman in any way? Norman hasn't had a mainstream concert since like, 2009, aside from a couple one-off charity events. Why give them another chance at getting a quality concert venue?

All I will say is even though I hope it passes it's probably not going to. Norman citizens probably do not deserve anything of the sorts anyway given how they continue to get rid of anything that would benefit the city when they get the chance. Like what's going to be there next Target the commuter rail?

OU has terrible fans. I think it comes from the fact Norman hates OU. I don't get why, but Norman seems to loathe and despise the only thing keeping them relevant. Without OU, Norman would be less than Ada.

Wait.... all the students didn't show up since it was on campus? Shocking.

It is amazing how apathetic the Norman businesses and general population are in supporting anything OU. Most towns/cities that have a major university in it is rabidly supportive of it. But not so much in Norman. There seems to be a jealousy or resentment of the very thing that gives their community life and a list of opportunities and amenities that wouldn't remotely exist without the university's presence. I guess people fight what they can't control.

There are plenty of people in Norman who aren't Thunder game attenders that could support OU, and they just don't. They are just apathetic when it comes to supporting the main business generator in their town. They love the advantages and piggy backing off it, but don't make a huge effort to support or promote it. They've become spoiled.

Coping by bashing Normanites because they dont want to bail out OU with a costly subsidized arena is quite hilarious to me. Maybe take the crimson shaded glasses off for a second and step back and wonder if Norman is really going to get $600 million returned in any way from a small college arena. Most rightly see that they wont, the promises are shaky, the costs are too high and why should they be responsible for OU's decades of inaction on Lloyd Noble or an on campus alternative.

[bison34]

Coping by bashing Normanites because they dont want to bail out OU with a costly subsidized arena is quite hilarious to me. Maybe take the crimson shaded glasses off for a second and step back and wonder if Norman is really going to get $600 million returned in any way from a small college arena. Most rightly see that they wont, the promises are shaky, the costs are too high and why should they be responsible for OU's decades of inaction on Lloyd Noble or an on campus alternative.

Not just from the arena, but the surrounding development, heck yes. Against, students flee Norman as soon as they can. Because there is nothing there. No concert venue, no cool districts or places to live right near them. So they flee Norman like it has a plague (I can argue that it does).

Norman has benefitted 100x over from OU, so it's time they give back.

[BoulderSooner]

Coping by bashing Normanites because they dont want to bail out OU with a costly subsidized arena is quite hilarious to me. Maybe take the crimson shaded glasses off for a second and step back and wonder if Norman is really going to get $600 million returned in any way from a small college arena. Most rightly see that they wont, the promises are shaky, the costs are too high and why should they be responsible for OU's decades of inaction on Lloyd Noble or an on campus alternative.

lol it is costing norman 0.00 dollars ..

[jedicurt]

lol it is costing norman 0.00 dollars ..

but but but... what about all that tax revenue that is already being generated by empty fields?

[Rover]

Coping by bashing Normanites because they dont want to bail out OU with a costly subsidized arena is quite hilarious to me. Maybe take the crimson shaded glasses off for a second and step back and wonder if Norman is really going to get $600 million returned in any way from a small college arena. Most rightly see that they wont, the promises are shaky, the costs are too high and why should they be responsible for OU's decades of inaction on Lloyd Noble or an on campus alternative.

Spin spin spin doesn't change the facts.

[Jersey Boss]

but but but... what about all that tax revenue that is already being generated by empty fields?

You ignore the loss of sales tax to Norman that the LNC currently provides

[Jersey Boss]

It does appear the Distict Court will not meet the Dec 11 deadline to get the issue on the Feb. 11 ballot

[bison34]

You ignore the loss of sales tax to Norman that the LNC currently provides

Roughly 35 home games. That's it. No concerts or events. Nothing else. Lol

[Jersey Boss]

Roughly 35 home games. That's it. No concerts or events. Nothing else. Lol

Mens Hoops, Women Hoops , Women Gymnastics. High School playoffs. The lack of concerts is the fault of the same individual who has done nothing for the last 2 decades to benefit basketball as far as playing facilities. It was old when Castiglione took the AD job. It is not the responsibility or obligation of Norman voters to cover the failure of the Athletic Dept to upgrade OU infrastructure.
Time for Hamm and Bennett to step up like T Bone did for State.

[Jeremy Martin]

Not just from the arena, but the surrounding development, heck yes. Against, students flee Norman as soon as they can. Because there is nothing there. No concert venue, no cool districts or places to live right near them. So they flee Norman like it has a plague (I can argue that it does).

Norman has benefitted 100x over from OU, so it's time they give back.

As a Norman resident why should I pay to go watch sports that I don't care about just because they are in my home town? Why are you not also angry at the residents of the surrounding towns who do not come sell out all of the events?

[bison34]

As a Norman resident why should I pay to go watch sports that I don't care about just because they are in my home town? Why are you not also angry at the residents of the surrounding towns who do not come sell out all of the events?

Because, I get it. Getting to LNC from OKC is a chore.

I never said you had to go to games. I am also a Norman resident (northeast Norman, think Franklin and Sooner-ish). Getting to games at LNC sucks. Norman has a major brain drain problem, and being anti-growth like they are won't help.

[Rover]

As a Norman resident why should I pay to go watch sports that I don't care about just because they are in my home town? Why are you not also angry at the residents of the surrounding towns who do not come sell out all of the events?

Hometown pride maybe. Or maybe supporting the organization that pours millions upon millions into your economy. Or because they provide you with many cultural opportunities and entertaining events you wouldn't have near you without them being there. Because they elevate the status of yoour city by being there. Maybe its the national recognition and attention that comes to your little town because of its presence and the activities, making it easier to recruit progressive businesses. Maybe its the availability of intelligent labor with thousands of students willing to work in your businesses. Or maybe….

Or maybe the provincial citizens just think they are owed all the benefits without needing to give back.

[MagzOK]

Norman would get more tax money from me from a new arena. We go to numerous events at the LNC for women's gymnastics , women's and men's basketball. Usually we will stop at Braum's on the way out on Lindsey and grab a quick nibble for the car ride back home to Edmond, however if there were some walkable restaurants to choose from we would certainly stay, sit, eat, and spend more money bringing in more tax revenue to the city. Higher tabs equal more tax money.

You can say well you can drive to a restaurant and eat before you leave Norman. We could I suppose, but once we're in the car and fight with the lights and traffic out of LNC are, we're not stopping and getting out and all that stuff. It's drive thru for us.

I can't be the only one.

[bamarsha]

Mens Hoops, Women Hoops , Women Gymnastics. High School playoffs. The lack of concerts is the fault of the same individual who has done nothing for the last 2 decades to benefit basketball as far as playing facilities. It was old when Castiglione took the AD job. It is not the responsibility or obligation of Norman voters to cover the failure of the Athletic Dept to upgrade OU infrastructure.
Time for Hamm and Bennett to step up like T Bone did for State.

If OU is fine playing in the LNC and Norman residents are fine not having any concerts, why change? OU is a football school, not basketball. The Thunder only made it more extreme.

[PhiAlpha]

As a Norman resident why should I pay to go watch sports that I don't care about just because they are in my home town? Why are you not also angry at the residents of the surrounding towns who do not come sell out all of the events?

I mean you could make the same argument about the Thunder but OKC passed the arena vote by 71%.

[bison34]

As a Norman resident why should I pay to go watch sports that I don't care about just because they are in my home town? Why are you not also angry at the residents of the surrounding towns who do not come sell out all of the events?

Realizing that, without OU, Norman is Ada, Normanites should be on their hands and knees thanking OU.

Without OU there, people wouldn't care if an asteroid hit Norman. Like Alpha said, OKC is in a slightly similar situation, but overwhelmingly supported one of the main reasons they are relevant.

[jn1780]

Norman would get more tax money from me from a new arena. We go to numerous events at the LNC for women's gymnastics , women's and men's basketball. Usually we will stop at Braum's on the way out on Lindsey and grab a quick nibble for the car ride back home to Edmond, however if there were some walkable restaurants to choose from we would certainly stay, sit, eat, and spend more money bringing in more tax revenue to the city. Higher tabs equal more tax money.

You can say well you can drive to a restaurant and eat before you leave Norman. We could I suppose, but once we're in the car and fight with the lights and traffic out of LNC are, we're not stopping and getting out and all that stuff. It's drive thru for us.

I can't be the only one.

Economic development is the best argument and the arena is the carrot to bring in the businesses. Most of your customers are probably coming from Moore and south Oklahoma City.

I don't blame Norman voters though for rolling their eyes when people make emotional arguments about not supporting the school or not showing 'pride'. Heck, I think half of the OU staff would roll their eyes at some the arguments being made. Like, when did OU basketball become the heart of OU? Would they make the same passionate argument if we were talking about funding a state of the art research facility? College students are pretty much always going to leave, they never came to the town with the intention of staying. This new development even if built is certainly not going to move the needle in getting students to stay in Norman when their is a 1 + billion dollar arena district and stadium district going to be built up the interstate in OKC. It will generate some local business though.

[David]

Realizing that, without OU, Norman is Ada, Normanites should be on their hands and knees thanking OU.

Without OU there, people wouldn't care if an asteroid hit Norman. Like Alpha said, OKC is in a slightly similar situation, but overwhelmingly supported one of the main reasons they are relevant.

The Ada comparison is wild nonsense. Without OU Norman is still a large suburb in the OKC metro with a population of over 120k people, that is night and day from Ada out in the middle of nowhere with barely 16k. That kind of hyperbole doesn't help the argument that Norman should approve this TIF when the vote happens.

[Jersey Boss]

I mean you could make the same argument about the Thunder but OKC passed the arena vote by 71%.

And the owners of the Thunder put a product on the floor people will support. Joe C and OU, not so much.

[bison34]

The Ada comparison is wild nonsense. Without OU Norman is still a large suburb in the OKC metro with a population of over 120k people, that is night and day from Ada out in the middle of nowhere with barely 16k. That kind of hyperbole doesn't help the argument that Norman should approve this TIF when the vote happens.

But again, if OU moved, there would be a large amount of people who wouldn't live there. 1,000s of professors and other college employees would live in OKC, not Norman. And if OU had never located in Norman, then they wouldnt have 120k. Then what would they do?

Yes, they'd be bigger than, Ada, but in terms of importance, they would be the same.