Sports Betting in OK

[Pete]

People get themselves in trouble in the stock market all the time. Commodities trading, day trading, crypto, etc. Looking for a quick buck and the thrill of the chase is part of the human self-destructive natural action.

What was it that Michael Jordan supposedly lost so much money shorting on that he had to sell the Hornets to cover his loss?

50 million people in the U.S. already play fantasy sports and most have been readily converted to betting on sporting events directly.

How many people in the U.S. do you think are currently day trading?

Not remotely comparable.

[Dob Hooligan]

So, how come our culture wars politicians aren't all over it? Even Governor Stitt wants to get a sports betting deal done. Don't get me wrong, sports betting is a scourge. But, people are financial idiots and we can't stop them from self-destructing.

I googled it, and the legend is that Michael Jordan lost $500 million on the GameStop frenzy, and had to liquidate to cover his losses.

[Pete]

^

We might not be able to stop some really dumb behaviors, but the government shouldn't be facilitating them.

And the reason why this is supported, of course, is money.

[jn1780]

People get themselves in trouble in the stock market all the time. Commodities trading, day trading, crypto, etc. Looking for a quick buck and the thrill of the chase is part of the human self-destructive natural action.

What was it that Michael Jordan supposedly lost so much money shorting on that he had to sell the Hornets to cover his loss?

There are some pretty dumb financial products out there, but at the heart of the stock market is the idea is that your personally taking ownership in a company's success or failure and your money is helping them achieve their goals, hopefully.

It doesn't matter if I bet 100 million dollars for OU to win a game. That money isn't directly helping them achieve that goal. It would be like if I bet my friend 100 dollars that Tesla will make so and so dollars. That 100 dollars doesn't directly help Tesla at all. Its just a transaction between me and my friend.

For all its faults, the stock market its a lot easier to make the case that the stock market is more beneficial to society.

[BoulderSooner]

It would be like if I bet my friend 100 dollars that Tesla will make so and so dollars. That 100 dollars doesn't directly help Tesla at all. Its just a transaction between me and my friend.

.

that is pretty much what options trading is ..

[BDP]

And, technically, most retail stock trades don't directly help the company, either, since they're between investors, not the company and an investor.

[Pete]

50 million people in the U.S. don't trade options or day trade.

Scale matters, and it matters a lot.

[BDP]

50 million people in the U.S. don't trade options or day trade.

Scale matters, and it matters a lot.

It does for sure.

I think the worst part of it all is the scale caused by the mobile apps, not just in terms of the amount of bettors, but even more so the frequency of betting. By carrying a sports book in your pocket, there is nothing between the impulse and the bet for an addicted gambler. I do think people can gamble "responsibly", but the ease of betting combined with sports betting becoming ubiquitous in all sports related media just compounds the problem for those with a problem. The only real way for one to get away from it at this point is to not watch sports at all. Once that association is made between watching a sporting event and betting on it in real time, that is probably hard to break.

[FighttheGoodFight]

Also an app that sends you push notifications to bet is predatory. They know what they are doing and making hand over fist money. I personally don't gamble but have seen the toll it takes on addicts. And that was before it was right on your phone 24/7.

The SMU study on it was pretty wild: https://x.com/esaagar/status/1864703254854050058

"SMU monitored 700,000 online sports bettors. Less than 5% withdrew any profit. The rest were were losers. 3% of the losers lost so much they made up for 50% of the revenue"

[Pete]

There are tons of reports of college guys getting into deep trouble due to sports betting. Really big in frats and in the dorms.

That's darn young to develop a bad gambling habit.

[Bill Robertson]

It does for sure.

I think the worst part of it all is the scale caused by the mobile apps, not just in terms of the amount of bettors, but even more so the frequency of betting. By carrying a sports book in your pocket, there is nothing between the impulse and the bet for an addicted gambler. I do think people can gamble "responsibly", but the ease of betting combined with sports betting becoming ubiquitous in all sports related media just compounds the problem for those with a problem. The only real way for one to get away from it at this point is to not watch sports at all. Once that association is made between watching a sporting event and betting on it in real time, that is probably hard to break.

I can definitely see the potential, maybe even probability of people starting to bet and it turning into a problem. I carefully plan my betting in frequency, amount and carefully studied risk. I average breaking even consistently. Which is what I aim for. I do it for fun. My wife is much the same with playing slot machines. She can go for hours and end up breaking even but having an entertaining afternoon in the process.
Oddly I hate fantasy leagues. I took part in a few when I worked for Kerr-McGee. I found myself every weekend worrying way more about how my players were doing than enjoying the games. I can bet spreads and over-unders and not get wrapped up in the outcomes. Just enjoy the games.

[Plutonic Panda]

I gamble for fun. Sometimes it’s fun to go to somebody’s house and drink(although I’ve been sober for over a month now) and gamble on games, horse races, or at the casino. I always make sure that it’s money that I can lose and not sweat if I do. I think it’s fun and it should be legalized and regulated.

[Laramie]

I gamble for fun. Sometimes it’s fun to go to somebody’s house and drink(although I’ve been sober for over a month now) and gamble on games, horse races, or at the casino. I always make sure that it’s money that I can lose and not sweat if I do. I think it’s fun and it should be legalized and regulated.

Good point, Plutonic Panda, good take on knowing your finances on what you can afford to gamble.

The people that get into trouble gambling or any gambling associated with speculation; my question 'Does Oklahoma have treatment facilities to address individual gambling issues?'
I've heard they use the same 12 steps used in the treatment of alcoholic addiction.

I don't gamble and wouldn't participate in Sports Betting if Oklahoma approved it.

Can somebody tell me how 'The Fat Jack Sports Service' based here in Oklahoma operates legally...

[gjl]

You can't place bets with the Fat Jack. You are just buying his recommendations on picks. I don't know how that could be deemed illegal.

[Swake]

There are tons of reports of college guys getting into deep trouble due to sports betting. Really big in frats and in the dorms.

That's darn young to develop a bad gambling habit.

This was true when I was in college 30 years ago. Nothing new.

[Pete]

This was true when I was in college 30 years ago. Nothing new.

Yeah, that x a million. Again, scale. You can't tell me it wouldn't be much, much worse with every college student having easy access to an app in their pocket.

[Swake]

Yeah, that x a million. Again, scale. You can't tell me it wouldn't be much, much worse with every college student having easy access to an app in their pocket.

Yeah, but that app doesn't let you bet on credit, which is where the trouble always comes.

[Pete]

Yeah, but that app doesn't let you bet on credit, which is where the trouble always comes.

It lets you use credit CARDS, which is exactly the same thing.

[The]

If I never saw a betting, alcohol or prescription drug ad again I'd be happy.

So much this. The prescription drug ads make me want to put my TV through a wall.

[Thomas Vu]

This is an excellent podcast about sports betting by Michael Lewis, the greatest business author of all time.

https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/agai...the-rules-fans

Some key points:

• 80% of sports betting in the U.S. is controlled by Draft Kings and Fan Duel
• It takes over a billion (and more likely 3 billion) to compete, due to their tech and marketing
• Their huge advantage came from having millions of fantasy sports players on their sites (estimated at over 50 million in the U.S. as a whole)
• They have been able to convert those fantasy players into direct sports betters to a very large degree in the states where sports betting has been legalized (which is now most of them)
• The biggest casinos are even severely disadvantaged against DK and FD
• Even in states limiting sports betting to the tribes (like the Seminoles in Florida), they cannot compete with FD and DK
• Betters can easily circumvent the crappier tribal platforms by having friends bet on their behalf in other states where the tribes don't control
• Many of the tribes end up partnering with DK and FD due to their dominance, tech, and marketing
• Effectively, even if we limit sports betting to the tribes here in OK, a lot or most of the money is going to go to FD and DK
• Those two sites are very sophisticated in inducing bettors to make very bad bets, such as parlays which are far more profitable than even casino games
• There is now a secondary market where you can sell an existing bet you've made to another gambler

I've said it before: I do not see the value to society of making this legal here. I also realize it is going to happen anyway.

Rise up Against the Rules listeners! Love that somebody else I know listens to this podcast. It's my favorite one.

I found it fascinating that the lines aren't even precise, and that their model just preys on the people who go off of emotion.

Anybody that does know better gets limited so much it's not even worth placing on there.

[Pete]

Just now listening to another in Lewis's series on sports betting:

https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/agai...-the-mule#play


This one will really make you cringe. The big gambling sites have sophisticated algorithms that constantly limit or expand the amount any particular gambler can bet at a time. And of course, for someone with a history of making successful bets, their max gets cut way down, while the bad gambler keeps getting his/her limit raised.

And if you lose enough, they actually assign a human to you to keep offering you discounts and sometimes free sports and concert tickets or even free money with which to bet.

So, of course, there is this whole other strategy of successful gamblers to find 'mules' who will bet on their behalf, because otherwise they can't put much money at risk. And even with these mules, there is a ton of time and effort spent trying to make them look incompetent (i.e. losing large amounts over a bunch of bets), so they can then get the VIP treatment with the perqs and higher betting limits.

And even though these sites are mandated to cut off addict gamblers or at the very least refer them to services, for these VIP losers, the real person on the betting site will encourage them not to complain about losses on the site, otherwise they'll be flagged and "nobody wants that".

Lewis had one of his producers set up a new Gmail account then download 3-4 betting apps and make small deposits, like $10. They said that account was so bombarded by promotions, it became completely unusable.


It's pretty clear Lewis is working on a big writing project, probably a book. And by the time it comes out and exposes lots of this ugliness, the genie will be long out of the bottle, as 38 states have already legalized sports betting.

[Dob Hooligan]

^^^^ I got interested in following the casino business about 20 years ago. The tactics you are describing have been going on for 35-40 years. I recall reading a chapter in some book that the biggest percentage of revenue for Harrah's/Caesars around the millennium was widows from the central US.

Advanced metrics are alive and well.

[Pete]

^

But, again, those tactics could only be employed on people taking the trouble to travel to a casino. Now, virtually every American has a sports betting casino in their pocket 24/7.

Also, there is now AI and a massive digital engine to not only hammer out all the best possible algorithms, but also refine the psychology of effective push marketing via email, TV, and the internet.


Anybody trying to equate sports betting to what has happened in casinos or with old-time illegal bookies only helps to make the point of how little most people understand what is now happening.

[Dob Hooligan]

I am not being argumentative or dismissive. Not one bit. But, it appears to me that there are a finite amount of people in America who can and will bet, and a finite amount of money they can lose? Sports betting will maximize their revenue opportunities, but every sports league (including the NCAA) knows how many sports entertainment dollars are possible in America. They will get all they can, but destroying lives through the vice of gambling is something they are ALL acutely aware of and carefully monitoring. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.

[Pete]

I would argue the amount that can be gambled is absolutely not finite. Always new markets, more people, larger amounts.

And what difference does that make anyway when the top limit is so unbelievably huge that it has the possibility to ruin millions of lives?

And against this very real risk, I ask again: Where is the benefit to society?