University Town Center

[Jersey Boss]

When has the city ever paid the interest? That is disingenuous on the "citizens" part, since they are spewing a lie as fact.

Why is the TIF for 600 when the city is expected to cough up 230?

[bison34]

Why is the TIF for 600 when the city is expected to cough up 230?

The TIF amount, I don't believe, has ever formally been announced as $600 million. That is what people have been saying it would be, after the interest. But the interest would be repaid as part of the TIF, like in most projects, I believe. Unless you have something formal that shows different.

Plus, is this TIF a loan? If so, the developer would be on the hook for interest, not the city.

[bison34]

I find it interesting that so many vocal proponents of Norman financing an arena for the State of Oklahoma neither live in or pay taxes in Norman.

I pay taxes there. Hence why I want this project. It will help my property values (when Norman has more things to do, it helps everyone).

[Rover]

I find it interesting that so many vocal proponents of Norman financing an arena for the State of Oklahoma neither live in or pay taxes in Norman.

Yes, the only good ideas or fair thinking comes from a provincial thinking minority group. LOL

[Jersey Boss]

^ You are free to send an ear marked donation to the OU foundation for arena funding.

[Jersey Boss]

The TIF amount, I don't believe, has ever formally been announced as $600 million. That is what people have been saying it would be, after the interest. But the interest would be repaid as part of the TIF, like in most projects, I believe. Unless you have something formal that shows different.

Plus, is this TIF a loan? If so, the developer would be on the hook for interest, not the city.

$600M is the formal amount that was approved by the city council.
Authorized Project Cost Limits.
Authorized
Project
Costs
include
Assistance
in
Development Financing and
Administration/Implementation. The amount of Assistance in Development Financing shall not exceed
$600,000,000.
https://mccmeetingspublic.blob.core....7981df6a45.pdf

[bison34]

$600M is the formal amount that was approved by the city council.
Authorized Project Cost Limits.
Authorized
Project
Costs
include
Assistance
in
Development Financing and
Administration/Implementation. The amount of Assistance in Development Financing shall not exceed
$600,000,000.
https://mccmeetingspublic.blob.core....7981df6a45.pdf

I still think that the interest would be a developer burden, not a city burden.

[VeggieMeat]

I still think that the interest would be a developer burden, not a city burden.

The interest on the bond financing the TIF is the city's burden. The taxes collected in the district are earmarked to pay off the bond as that future cashflow is the collateral backing the bond.

[TornadoKegan]

I find it interesting that so many vocal proponents of Norman financing an arena for the State of Oklahoma neither live in or pay taxes in Norman.

As both a Norman native and resident. That is certainly not the case with me. The fact that the article said that a lot of the voters were deceived is mostly true. We will only be paying 200 million worth of it while these people are saying 600 million. The rest of it's coming from private investors. If it makes it to a vote I will definitely be voting yes on it. I was at a food bank back and I want to say either late September or early October. They were asking people if they wanted to sign the petition and I actually heard one or two people end up signing it and I heard no mention from the person that was asking for people to sign the petition what it would actually do just a bunch of nimbys which are the reason Costco went to Moore instead of Norman. They were actually looking for a property in Norman.

[TornadoKegan]

Responding to bison34 And Veggiemeat post. It would be a small burden on the city however once built we would quickly be able to recoup that money plus have more money for other projects around the city

[onthestrip]

Responding to bison34 And Veggiemeat post. It would be a small burden on the city however once built we would quickly be able to recoup that money plus have more money for other projects around the city

Recoup what? All the sales taxes and ad valorem taxes from this area goes straight back to OU/arena for the next 25 years. So no, this will not bring in more money for other Norman projects for a very long time.

And according to the above linked PDF document, the TIF amount is not to exceed $600 million. If OU and partners are planning $1 billion in development (key word, planned. its not guaranteed) then Norman is covering 60% of it, not 20% of it.

I think these math games were played with the Omni Hotel in OKC. The project was X amount but when the city was borrowing the money to finance it, the TIF amount in reality was much higher than the X amount. Pete brought that up many times during the planning of the Omni.

[jedicurt]

Recoup what? All the sales taxes and ad valorem taxes from this area goes straight back to OU/arena for the next 25 years. So no, this will not bring in more money for other Norman projects for a very long time..

until the money is recouped, and then the TIF goes away. so if the district is extremely successful, actually yes, it will be going to other norman projects, much sooner than even if just normal growth is allowed to happen without the district

[BoulderSooner]

Recoup what? All the sales taxes and ad valorem taxes from this area goes straight back to OU/arena for the next 25 years. So no, this will not bring in more money for other Norman projects for a very long time.

And according to the above linked PDF document, the TIF amount is not to exceed $600 million. If OU and partners are planning $1 billion in development (key word, planned. its not guaranteed) then Norman is covering 60% of it, not 20% of it.

I think these math games were played with the Omni Hotel in OKC. The project was X amount but when the city was borrowing the money to finance it, the TIF amount in reality was much higher than the X amount. Pete brought that up many times during the planning of the Omni.

the development is 1 billion + the TIF is paying for 200 mil (of a 330 mil stadium) that is a part of that 1 billion ..... 200mil is 20% of 1 billion it is really not that hard to figure out ..

the CITY general fund is paying 0.00 dollars .. and "All the sales taxes and ad valorem taxes from this area goes straight back to OU/arena for the next 25 years" this is not a true statement

[onthestrip]

the development is 1 billion + the TIF is paying for 200 mil (of a 330 mil stadium) that is a part of that 1 billion ..... 200mil is 20% of 1 billion it is really not that hard to figure out ..

the CITY general fund is paying 0.00 dollars .. and "All the sales taxes and ad valorem taxes from this area goes straight back to OU/arena for the next 25 years" this is not a true statement

The TIF agreement says up to $600 million from what I read. Let me know if you find something saying its capped at $200 million.

And all the ad valorem over the current small amount goes to the arena. I dont think any sales taxes are generated currently so yes, all that does go to arena. Is that a true statement? Feel free to correct me.

[Jersey Boss]

The TIF agreement says up to $600 million from what I read. Let me know if you find something saying its capped at $200 million.

And all the ad valorem over the current small amount goes to the arena. I dont think any sales taxes are generated currently so yes, all that does go to arena. Is that a true statement? Feel free to correct me.

Omni rope a dope is being tried out here.

[Jersey Boss]

the development is 1 billion + the TIF is paying for 200 mil (of a 330 mil stadium) that is a part of that 1 billion ..... 200mil is 20% of 1 billion it is really not that hard to figure out ..

the CITY general fund is paying 0.00 dollars .. and "All the sales taxes and ad valorem taxes from this area goes straight back to OU/arena for the next 25 years" this is not a true statement

Please provide a link that this is a billion dollar development. I say shenanigans. You have been repeating this 1 billion dollar figure ad nauseum.

https://tif-ed.blogspot.com/2024/10/...s-not.html?m=1

The TIF district landowner (OU Foundation, UNP North, LLC), Texas development partners (Rainier), Norman Economic Development Coalition (Lawrence McKinney), the Norman Chamber of Commerce (Scott Martin), and Visit Norman (Dan Schemm) have been promoting a $1 billion district.

The contractual agreement falls well short of this. The development agreement outlines the legal obligation of taxpayers: up to $600 million paid out for as long as 25 years to finance $230 million in costs for the anchor project (arena, parking structure and public infrastructure).

The TIF district would take 100% of sales taxes and property taxes paid in the larger increment area for improvements made on land owned by OU Foundation. Instead of tax revenues flowing to City, County and school budgets, they would go toward the costs of an arena and parking structure.

What are OU Foundation and their development partners proposing to do? Not a $1 billion project that has been presented as the maximum potential cost of a larger project in the area.

OU Foundation proposes to facilitate" the construction of $650 million project on land that it owns. The $650 million includes $230 million for the arena, parking structure, and public infrastructure paid for by TAXPAYERS.

The private investment portion is only $420 million!

The entertainment district includes a boutique 8,000 seat arena (the smallest in the SEC), a 1,200-spot parking garage, a plaza, and 140,000 square feet of bars, restaurants, and retail. We are talking about a block and a half of downtown Norman or Campus Corner adjacent to an area.

The proposed project plan adds up to $650 million, not $1 billion.

[BoulderSooner]

The TIF district would take 100% of sales taxes and property taxes paid in the larger increment area for improvements made on land owned by OU Foundation. Instead of tax revenues flowing to City, County and school budgets, they would go toward the costs of an arena and parking structure. [/I]

this is Factually not true no matter how many times you keep saying it ..

[Jersey Boss]

the development is 1 billion

this is Factually not true no matter how many times you keep saying it ..

[TornadoKegan]

It looks like they are starting on the foundation for the main event. I will try to get photos later this week

Foundation work starting for main event
qXmQ4uFAKVmh.jpg

[TornadoKegan]

Foundation work starting for main event
qXmQ4uFAKVmh.jpg

Just noticed earlier you cant really tell from the quoted image. go i got another one where it confirms there is indeed work on the foundation for the main event.
yJXRRpJr1AZ7.jpg

Also how long did it take for the OKC Main event to open from groundbreaking

[BG918]

Hearing Sephora and Five Below will be coming to the new retail buildings proposed next to Crest (north side).

[Soonerman]

Hearing Sephora and Five Below will be coming to the new retail buildings proposed next to Crest (north side).

I wouldn't be surprised if Old Navy moves over there as well

[jn1780]

Just noticed earlier you cant really tell from the quoted image. go i got another one where it confirms there is indeed work on the foundation for the main event.
yJXRRpJr1AZ7.jpg

Also how long did it take for the OKC Main event to open from groundbreaking

Looking back at the OKC Main Event thread, it was at the same stage of construction as Norman location on 4-25-14 and it ended up opening on black Friday of that year. So there are about 7 months left to go for the Norman location.

[onthestrip]

Main Event, Sephora, Five Below are all coming? I thought UNP needed a smallish college arena to keep attracting new developments?

[jedicurt]

Main Event, Sephora, Five Below are all coming? I thought UNP needed a smallish college arena to keep attracting new developments?

well, seeing as how none of them were ever mentioned as coming before the initial announcement of said arena and entertainment district i think that still stands...