New Arena (formerly Prairie Surf)

[baralheia]

^

Except there is plenty of room all around the station for structured parking.

Except... there's not though. The station is on the west side of the tracks. The small parking areas directly north and south of the station building are not large enough for structured parking, and there are no other suitable plots of land immediately nearby for parking that aren't already committed to other uses.

And, who will be driving to downtown and then leaving their car in a garage? If there is ever commuter rail, it will work the opposite way.

If there were a safe, reliable, and convenient place to park my car for multiple days when I take Amtrak, I'd be parking downtown to take the train right now! If you're just going for a day trip, utilizing transit options to get to the downtown station is fine - but if you're hauling luggage around with you, driving to the station is vastly superior. Utilizing rideshare services (Lyft/Uber/taxi/etc) can be an option but I've found them to be less reliable than I'd prefer around the time of morning that Amtrak departs OKC.

Once the commuter rail line is built, that still won't take care of everyone needing to get to Santa Fe Station, either. You'll still have people who live in the downtown area who aren't efficiently served by public transport in order to get to the station - either they're not along any of the routes selected by the RTA, or a walk of more than a couple of blocks is necessary to even engage with transit. Like, imagine trying to get from the center of Mesta Park to Santa Fe Station. That's a half-mile walk to the nearest transit stop (the RAPID stop on 17th & Classen), which will take you to the downtown transit center, but then you'll need to walk another ~3 blocks from the downtown transit center to Santa Fe Station - a total trip time of 30-45 minutes depending on walking speed. That's enough friction to make driving to the station the preferred option for many - especially if luggage is part of that equation, or if you have a disability that makes walking longer distances difficult. Not including enough parking for the station's future needs will kneecap these services before they've even begun service.

[Pete]

Except... there's not though. The station is on the west side of the tracks. The small parking areas directly north and south of the station building are not large enough for structured parking, and there are no other suitable plots of land immediately nearby for parking that aren't already committed to other uses.


If there were a safe, reliable, and convenient place to park my car for multiple days when I take Amtrak, I'd be parking downtown to take the train right now! If you're just going for a day trip, utilizing transit options to get to the downtown station is fine - but if you're hauling luggage around with you, driving to the station is vastly superior. Utilizing rideshare services (Lyft/Uber/taxi/etc) can be an option but I've found them to be less reliable than I'd prefer around the time of morning that Amtrak departs OKC.

Once the commuter rail line is built, that still won't take care of everyone needing to get to Santa Fe Station, either. You'll still have people who live in the downtown area who aren't efficiently served by public transport in order to get to the station - either they're not along any of the routes selected by the RTA, or a walk of more than a couple of blocks is necessary to even engage with transit. Like, imagine trying to get from the center of Mesta Park to Santa Fe Station. That's a half-mile walk to the nearest transit stop (the RAPID stop on 17th & Classen), which will take you to the downtown transit center, but then you'll need to walk another ~3 blocks from the downtown transit center to Santa Fe Station - a total trip time of 30-45 minutes depending on walking speed. That's enough friction to make driving to the station the preferred option for many - especially if luggage is part of that equation, or if you have a disability that makes walking longer distances difficult. Not including enough parking for the station's future needs will kneecap these services before they've even begun service.

This is not the way it works in cities with real transit hubs. People don't drive to them, then park their cars. They take transit to them, then use the connections.

And even if you wanted to make that argument, wasn't the entire point of the streetcar to link many of the existing parking structures and lots with all the downtown amenities? There is already a stop right around the corner and another could be added directly in front of the station, as multiple plans have shown.

We have assloads of parking lots and structures in the immediate area, and very few are ever full. Yet another would be a tremendous misuse of the most important block in all of OKC.

[OkieBerto]

Anyone who is currently attending a game knows there are tons of people who will park a mile away in a garage, then walk to the game. The last time I went to a game I parked in Deep Deuce and walked. There is no reason for a giant amount of new parking.

[Pete]

I'm willing to bet the countless downtown parking structures are nowhere near full during a Thunder game or concert.

One of the great things about downtown parking is that Thunder games and concerts don't start until the evening or on weekends when all the downtown workers have long cleared out. And, as has been pointed out repeatedly, far fewer people are working downtown since the pandemic.

We don't need more parking, we need less.

[baralheia]

This is not the way it works in cities with real transit hubs. People don't drive to them, then park their cars. They take transit to them, then use the connections.

And even if you wanted to make that argument, wasn't the entire point of the streetcar to link many of the existing parking structures and lots with all the downtown amenities? There is already a stop right around the corner and another could be added directly in front of the station, as multiple plans have shown.

We have assloads of parking lots and structures in the immediate area, and very few are ever full. Yet another would be a tremendous misuse of the most important block in all of OKC.

Dallas, Fort Worth, St Louis, Kansas City, Albuquerque, El Paso, and Tucson (among others) all have either surface or structured parking immediately adjacent to their stations. I know the parking in Fort Worth is used a lot for Amtrak passengers. Sure, cities with effective transit systems like Denver or LA can funnel people to their downtown train stations using their transit network, but as it stands today, would you call our network effective? Maybe if EMBARK completely rebuilt their downtown bus routes to directly serve the station, or made the streetcar platform on the EKG bypass track a regular part of the route, but that would only address the downtown portion of the access equation. Sure the Streetcar has the Bricktown and Santa Fe Hub stops, but they're on the wrong side of the tracks and (last I looked) there was absolutely no wayfinding signage to tell you how to get from those stops to the Santa Fe hub - or from the various downtown parking garages to their nearest streetcar stop, for that matter. But besides that - what if (for example) you live in Bethany, or Mustang, or Del City and you want to take the train? There IS a need for adequate, immediately adjacent parking for Santa Fe Station to support the services it hosts today and will host in the future. It doesn't need to be massive (nor would I want it to be tbqh), and it doesn't need to be dedicated solely for the use of Santa Fe Station either. But without a massive overhaul to how this city thinks about transit, it's incredibly short-sighted not to have at least a small garage attached to the arena that can also be used for train passengers.

EDIT: I don't know if this is still part of the plan, but I do recall that in previous planning that's been done for Santa Fe Station, there was also a desire to lure Greyhound back into downtown, to be co-located with supporting facilities for the station building. The lower level of this garage could be used for exactly that sort of purpose too.

[Pete]

There is plenty of parking adjacent to Santa Fe Station; it is right in the middle of dozens of parking garages and lots and on two different sections of the street car line. This is a silly argument.

[dankrutka]

Dallas, Fort Worth, St Louis, Kansas City, Albuquerque, El Paso, and Tucson (among others) all have either surface or structured parking immediately adjacent to their stations. I know the parking in Fort Worth is used a lot for Amtrak passengers.

Which lots are you referring to next to Fort Worth Central Station? I've taken Amtrak to OKC quite a few times and the surface lots across the street are usually empty. I end up walking through those giant empty lots on my way into downtown Fort Worth.

[jn1780]

Its kind of a mute point, because there will be some kind of garage directly serving the new arena. The very low demand of the train station is easy fulfilled by the current surface lot to the south. The current Marriot/arena parking garage will be there too which they should probably demolish this one and replace it with a new one that is bigger and taller.