New Arena (formerly Prairie Surf)

[floyd the barber]

I know it has been repeated that OKC can't afford two arenas; however if we could juggle the services of Paycom Center and the new downtown Paycom Thunderdome arena--just imagine the concerts and large gatherings you could book in our city.

Wouldn't be so quick to discount Oklahoma City's chances of hosting any future SEC men and women's basketball tournaments. Don't see any evidence that OKC will be quick to demolish the current Paycom Center once the Paycom Thunderdome opens.

As beautiful as Austin is the SEC will want to have one of the schools (OU/UT) cities host an SEC event, OKC (IMO) would be better suited to host the SEC Tournaments once the new arena is built; hopefully, we'll have one more hotel added to OKC's portfolio by then.

Keeping the Paycom would be pretty funny.

We could be the next Houston. Why not? Our city limits is second in the nation. The Paycom and the new arena could be our NRG Stadium and the Astrodome.

It will give the announcers something to talk about during the flyover in the NBA Finals.

[April in the Plaza]

I know it has been repeated that OKC can't afford two arenas; however if we could juggle the services of Paycom Center and the new downtown Paycom Thunderdome arena--just imagine the concerts and large gatherings you could book in our city.

Wouldn't be so quick to discount Oklahoma City's chances of hosting any future SEC men and women's basketball tournaments. Don't see any evidence that OKC will be quick to demolish the current Paycom Center once the Paycom Thunderdome opens.

As beautiful as Austin is the SEC will want to have one of the schools (OU/UT) cities host an SEC event, OKC (IMO) would be better suited to host the SEC Tournaments once the new arena is built; hopefully, we'll have one more hotel added to OKC's portfolio by then.

It will be gone within a couple months after the new one opens. The Math for two doesn’t make any sense, not to mention it would be a terrible use of the land. City will end up giving Dobson and/or Cameron a deal on the land, and they’ll get to work on Oak 2.0, but with a heavier residential component.

[jn1780]

The Thunder isn't the only reason for the new arena. Bigger loading docks and amenities are important for the big acts. They are not going to want to book at the older arena. The smaller acts wouldn't mind, but that revenue doesn't justify the expense of keeping two arenas.

By far the biggest reason the current arena will be demolished is that the city will want all the attention on their 1+ billion dollar investment. Just like with the convention center, they made sure to take the old convention center out of the equation with the Prairie Surf studio deal.

[bison34]

The Thunder isn't the only reason for the new arena. Bigger loading docks and amenities are important for the big acts. They are not going to want to book at the older arena. The smaller acts wouldn't mind, but that revenue doesn't justify the expense of keeping two arenas.

By far the biggest reason the current arena will be demolished is that the city will want all the attention on their 1+ billion dollar investment. Just like with the convention center, they made sure to take the old convention center out of the equation with the Prairie Surf studio deal.

The problem is, Scissortail was supposed to inspire large amounts of PRIVATE development, and it has not. Not even close. Why are we to believe this arena development will be different?

[Laramie]

The problem is, Scissortail was supposed to inspire large amounts of PRIVATE development, and it has not. Not even close. Why are we to believe this arena development will be different?

. . . Add the Street Car to that piece that was suppose to inspire private development along the route. If it were free, there would be no doubts that more people would use it and you might see development along those routes.

I recognize the expense of operating two arenas; however, the Paycom Center will seat 15,152 for ice hockey and 18,203 for basketball. OKC Blue could continue to use Paycom Center.

The flexibility of two arenas will open the door that no events will be turned down because of scheduling; also OKC could host the SEC and/or Big 12 conference (Men/Women) tournaments with two arenas--think of the economic impact that would bring. Our new convention center could use Paycom Center to attract higher tier conventions for our city. You going to have more conflict with the Thunder if you attempt to host a convention that might tie up the new arena for a 4 or 5 day period during NBA season.

Have no doubt that a 'AA' team with rivals Tulsa and Wichita would draw 5,000 or more on a nightly basis in the current Paycom Center. The State Fair Coliseum (under construction) doesn't have any plans for an ice plant. The PBR (too big a draw for 4,800 seat coliseum) could use the Paycom Center instead of hauling dirt into the new arena.

You would also have the option of hosting the OSSAA basketball tournaments on all levels at Paycom Center--you could offer free parking in city garages for tournament attendees. And let's get that FFA 10,000 attendee convention back in OKC where it would be more centrally located for the members. Think of the new hotels or hotel expansion these events would bring to OKC.

The Paycom Center will remain idle for at least one or more years before demolition. With all the land options we have downtown; just don't see a case where some private or public entity will need the arena demolished immediately to acquire that land. It's not like a mixed use tower will be built there.

[bison34]

. . . Add the Street Car to that piece that was suppose to inspire private development along the route. If it were free, there would be no doubts that more people would use it and you might see development along those routes.

I recognize the expense of operating two arenas; however, the Paycom Center will seat 15,152 for ice hockey and 18,203 for basketball. OKC Blue could continue to use Paycom Center.

Have no doubt that a 'AA' team with rivals Tulsa and Wichita would draw 5,000 or more on a nightly basis in the current Paycom Center. The State Fair Coliseum (under construction) doesn't have any plans for an ice plant. The PBR (too big a draw for 4,800 seat coliseum) could use the Paycom Center instead of hauling dirt into the new arena.

The flexibility of two arenas will open the door that no events will be turned down because of scheduling; also OKC could host the SEC and/or Big 12 conference (Men/Women) tournaments with two arenas--think of the economic impact that would bring. Our new convention center could use Paycom Center to attract higher tier conventions for our city.

You would also have the option of hosting the OSSAA basketball tournaments on all levels at Paycom Center--you could offer free parking in city garages for tournament attendees. And let's get that FFA 10,000 attendee convention back in OKC where it would be more centrally located for the members.

The Paycom Center will remain idle for at least one or more years before demolition. With all the land options we have downtown; just don't see a case where some private or public entity will need the arena demolished immediately to acquire that land. It's not like a mixed use tower will be built there.

I just think there isn't enough development money in OKC. It's all going to the vacuum 3 hours south. OKC developers are complete poors compared to down in Dallas. A new arena won't help this, so that's my trepidation for development around the arena.

[Dob Hooligan]

The problem is, Scissortail was supposed to inspire large amounts of PRIVATE development, and it has not. Not even close. Why are we to believe this arena development will be different?

I think the plan has always been to crystallize and begin larger scale development after the arena was clearly defined and under construction. I have always thought that the REHCO and Paycom sites are going to be built on in a complimentary fashion, even if it isn't part of a full partnership. So because I'm guessing Paycom won't be removed until about 2032, I think the "real" development plan isn't going to firm up until 2028 or 29.

[G.Walker]

I just think there isn't enough development money in OKC. It's all going to the vacuum 3 hours south. OKC developers are complete poors compared to down in Dallas. A new arena won't help this, so that's my trepidation for development around the arena.

I am optimistic that there will be a high rise mixed used development attached to the new arena. A mix of Thunder offices, hotel, retail and parking garage is not too far fetched. Downtown OKC can definitely support another 5 star hotel like the Omni. Even with the Omni hotel TIF block in place, the City can get away with soliciting developers for the development, since they own the land.

[cinnamonjock]

Maybe I'm wrong, but there has been a lot of infill development along the streetcar line. As for the park, it seems there are basically two property owners that either prefer using their land as a parking lot, or are so dysfunctional that it may take decades and court battles before anything happens.

[aDark]

. . . Add the Street Car to that piece that was suppose to inspire private development along the route. If it were free, there would be no doubts that more people would use it and you might see development along those routes.

I recognize the expense of operating two arenas; however, the Paycom Center will seat 15,152 for ice hockey and 18,203 for basketball. OKC Blue could continue to use Paycom Center.

Another day, another subtle effort to push hockey into OKC by Laramie. lol.

[citywokchinesefood]

Another day, another subtle effort to push hockey into OKC by Laramie. lol.

To be fair, hockey is really cool.

[HOT ROD]

Maybe I'm wrong, but there has been a lot of infill development along the streetcar line. As for the park, it seems there are basically two property owners that either prefer using their land as a parking lot, or are so dysfunctional that it may take decades and court battles before anything happens.

that FAR TOO OFTEN gets ignored. Citizen is a brand new highrise on the streetcar line, for example. I'd also argue Omni itself as another highrise built on the streetcar line, since the route was there before the hotel. We could ( and probably should ) keep going. Streetcar has been a catalyst in downtown being developed and integrated.

[bamarsha]

that FAR TOO OFTEN gets ignored. Citizen is a brand new highrise on the streetcar line, for example. I'd also argue Omni itself as another highrise built on the streetcar line, since the route was there before the hotel. We could ( and probably should ) keep going. Streetcar has been a catalyst in downtown being developed and integrated.

Do you really think the streetcar played a role in any of this development, much less a major role? I would bet those places would have been built there regardless of the streetcar (if not in spite of).

[okcrun]

. . . Add the Street Car to that piece that was suppose to inspire private development along the route. If it were free, there would be no doubts that more people would use it and you might see development along those routes.

The issue with the streetcar isn't the cost, it's $1 a ride lol. It's just way too slow to make sense to use in most cases. Often times you can walk to your intended location in the same amount of time.

[BoulderSooner]

The issue with the streetcar isn't the cost, it's $1 a ride lol. It's just way too slow to make sense to use in most cases. Often times you can walk to your intended location in the same amount of time.

the cost .. is a major issue that hurts use ... (not the dollar the hassle ) ..

[Rover]

the cost .. is a major issue that hurts use ... (not the dollar the hassle ) ..

Just returned from Europe. Public transport in many places just used a phone or card tap to pay. Easy and quick. None were free. Only here we seem to think it should be free to be used. Easy, yes. Free, no

[jn1780]

If don't have a car than Public Transport looks pretty convenient. In our case, a streetcar that takes at least 30 minutes to go on a loop one way adds the most inconvenience. You can make it work if you cut it off by walking to other end, but you have to be pretty familiar with its path.

[Rover]

If don't have a car than Public Transport looks pretty convenient. In our case, a streetcar that takes at least 30 minutes to go on a loop one way adds the most inconvenience. You can make it work if you cut it off by walking to other end, but you have to be pretty familiar with its path.

After being in Europe again for awhile and using mostly public trans when we are there, I can say that it was annoying if we ever had to wait for more than 5 min on our ride or walk more than a couple of hundred meters from our stop. LOL. We would walk on, tap our card, and off we would go. Usually about $1-$1.25 per. Multiple transfers were allowed, or travel within time frame (usually 90 minutes.) It was all quick, efficient, cheap and mostly comfortable (though very crowded at peak times). Transit pass would cover bus, street cars, and subway usually.

And, the high speed rail between cities was the best. Smooth, quiet, fast, easy, no long security lines or multiple inspection points, and generally as cheap as flying (though the gap has narrowed or often flying is now cheaper within Europe.). Arrive 15-20 min before departure and arrive in new city center and out fast. Bonus... you actually SEE the country and cities you are passing through, not over. But train in Europe has always been my favorite way to travel ... even the overnight sleepers.

[Pete]

There was a video conference today with David Todd (City of OKC) and several other civic leaders.

They made it very clear things are still in the beginning stages.

Todd made all the following points:

• Design contract has been awarded.
• New architects starting to put plans together for demo.
• Specs for demo will go out for public bid.
• Construction contract will be awarded later.
• Already working with utility companies, asbestos survey; everything that can be done before PS vacates Dec. 31st.
• Interior work for a couple of months starting Jan. 1st - remove asbestos and other issues.
• Demolition estimated to start in march March will take 6-9 months to completely remove the building.
• Hope to start construction immediately after demo.
• Work to keep noise and disruptions to a minimum.
• No determination on tunnel (Underground) and how it will be connected if at all.
• Access from CBD to convention center will be directed to west side of Robinson; EKG might be trickier.
• Parking will not be underground as it is now; garage to be built on site.
• Pro sports won’t allow parking under venue; ‘bad design’ by modern standards (don’t know what that means).
• Sheridan will be closed for a short time to remove skybridge.
• Entry/exit for project will likely be on Gaylord.
• Walkways probably can't be maintained during project because building is so close to sidewalks.
• Garage is only 8’ from Robinson.
• Will be some times when the streetcar has to be suspended, but will be minimal with ample notice.
• Yet to have even a general site plan.

[jn1780]

Parking under a building is security issue for a major public structure. You can have it, but you need a lot of security and screening.

[Pete]

Parking under a building is security issue for a major public structure. You can have it, but you needs of security and screening.

I'm sure that's true, but Todd didn't elaborate as to the reasons why.

It's disappointing to hear because now a good chunk of that site will be dedicated to a parking structure.

[jdross1982]

I'm sure that's true, but Todd didn't elaborate as to the reasons why.

It's disappointing to hear because now a good chunk of that site will be dedicated to a parking structure.

With likely buildings built on top of the garage. Other garages could be built on other sites to accommodate the needs.

[Pete]

With likely buildings built on top of the garage. Other garages could be built on other sites to accommodate the needs.

I asked him the question about parking in the call today and he said they would build a garage on the site.

I took that to mean they will attempt to replace all or most of the 1,000 spaces at the Cox Center with structured parking on that block.

Keep in mind that the massive Arts District Garage has only 800 spaces.