New Arena (formerly Prairie Surf)

[Pete]

the city actually presented to the planning commission to close those streets ... a long time ago .... it was continued forever then removed from the agenda ..

And then there was the whole mess with the convention center, but even when that was proposed for this site, the Harvey Spine was to be preserved for pedestrians.

[BoulderSooner]

I understand why the city redid the SW 2nd and Harvey curb cuts, but I feel like when the development is done on the area, the whole intersection will most likely be closed and redeveloped.

I can see keeping 2nd street open .. (maybe even eventually reconnecting all the way to shields .. ) but there is very little use for Harvey to stay open as a street .... now maybe rip it in up and make it a pedestrian only access ..

[SagerMichael]

Too much demand there for 3 story buildings to be it. Need mid or even hi-rise to make it fiscally make sense.

This is by far the most mind boggling “equation” in urban development to me. The fact that low rise buildings stood downtown for years. People lived, shopped, and worked in these buildings. Years later they are blown up and cleared to be surface lots. These lots sit empty for decades because the land is “too valuable” to build anything other than a high rise on. Makes you think the land actually isn’t as valuable as it is made out to be. This isn’t just an OKC thing, it’s every major city in America. Empty land is better than reasonable development

[Urbanite]

This might be a waste of the space, but my dream for this area would be to recreate a small historic district with 1, 2, and 3 story brick buildings, etc. (much like what was lost during urban renewal). Maybe even mimic some of the iconic OKC buildings that were lost during that time, at least on the facade side.

Cool storefronts on the ground floor with loft apartments on the upper floors.

I believe this would be incredible placed between the Myriad Gardens and Scissortail Park and would add a lot of charm to the area and more housing downtown. Great infill.

I feel like more and more people are looking for these kinds of step-back-in-time experiences (think downtown Guthrie), although I recognize the new build facet of it might make it seem cheap.

Just a thought.

I always thought a good Market Hall would fit perfectly between the two parks and serve the downtown community, as well the entire city, well. Ultimate goal would be something like Markthal in Rotterdam, but there are several examples all over the US, but not just a "food hall", but something with the vision of Rockwood Market Hall in Portland:

"Rockwood Market Hall, a non-profit organization, is a welcoming open-air market in Downtown Rockwood that features micro-retail and restaurant spaces, micro-grocers, a commissary kitchen, rentable cold storage, flagship full-size restaurants, and office space. Our goal is to offer fresh, healthy food options to our community along with opportunities for entrepreneurship and vitality."



https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attracti..._Province.html
https://www.tasteofhome.com/collecti...m5NhD5nv6SBDNo

[dankrutka]

Milwaukee Public Market is a great model that would absolutely be perfect here. In this case, you having housing on top of it.

[Pete]

Milwaukee Public Market is a great model that would absolutely be perfect here. In this case, you having housing on top of it.

It's fantastic but that was/is heavily subsidized.

[warreng88]

It's fantastic but that was/is heavily subsidized.

To be fair, I am sure whatever goes here will be as well...

[Urbanized]

Urbanized,
Appreciate the color here on REHCO. You mentioned REHCO ownership group above, who actually owns the site and is there any overlap with Thunder ownership? At one point, I thought there was but a little unsure now.

Agree that getting this right is very important and patience was smart. Hopefully they will start kicking tires on development ideas once the renderings for the new arena start coming out next year. Would think they would need to see what the plan for the area surrounding the new Arena will be and even perhaps what the plan for the Paycom site will be before they move, but hopefully those data points will start coming into focus in the next year or so and then they can start planning in earnest on what will work best here.

Yes, Bob Howard is (to my understanding) controlling investor in REHCO, and he also holds an ownership interest in the Thunder.

[Pete]

To be fair, I am sure whatever goes here will be as well...

I mean the entire operation is continually subsidized in addition to all types of upfront costs to build it.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^^^
Meaning operating subsidy, I take it? Would make sense.

[Pete]

^^^^^^^^^
Meaning operating subsidy, I take it? Would make sense.

Yes. It's funded by a huge BID as part of the 3rd Ward.

And it really struggled in the beginning. I think it is doing better these days.

[bison34]

If we are going to subsidize the surrounding development, we might as well shoot for the moon and get something ike this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_District

[KayneMo]

This might be a waste of the space, but my dream for this area would be to recreate a small historic district with 1, 2, and 3 story brick buildings, etc. (much like what was lost during urban renewal). Maybe even mimic some of the iconic OKC buildings that were lost during that time, at least on the facade side.

Cool storefronts on the ground floor with loft apartments on the upper floors.

I believe this would be incredible placed between the Myriad Gardens and Scissortail Park and would add a lot of charm to the area and more housing downtown. Great infill.

I feel like more and more people are looking for these kinds of step-back-in-time experiences (think downtown Guthrie), although I recognize the new build facet of it might make it seem cheap.

Just a thought.

This is similar to what I envisioned in this model I made. Many conceptual buildings visible but I also modeled many downtown buildings that were demolished (Baum Building visible at bottom, the Biltmore, and a row of buildings that once stood along Broadway).

[CaptDave]

This is similar to what I envisioned in this model I made. Many conceptual buildings visible but I also modeled many downtown buildings that were demolished (Baum Building visible at bottom, the Biltmore, and a row of buildings that once stood along Broadway).

If only......

[Duane821]

This is similar to what I envisioned in this model I made. Many conceptual buildings visible but I also modeled many downtown buildings that were demolished (Baum Building visible at bottom, the Biltmore, and a row of buildings that once stood along Broadway).

That is great!

[Laramie]

If we are going to subsidize the surrounding development, we might as well shoot for the moon and get something ike this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_District

OKC IMO should look at Edmonton's plan which is a massive $2.5 billion development. Although our city's $1 billion arena will anchor the development--we don't have the 25 acres afforded to Edmonton.

There is room for a few mixed-use developments where one could tower as high as 20 stories. This is where Pete's arena-stadium type district would come into play--especially those parking lots next to the new arena site could be home for mixed-use development.

[warreng88]

For anyone curious, the REHCO land is 11.5 acres, not including the streets and alleys. The current arena (not including the hotel or parking garage to the east) is 13.17 acres. That about 25 acres between those two areas that happen to be across the street from each other.

Does anyone think the MR guys will build on this or is it more likely they will sell the land to a private developer who will build something on it?

[Urbanized]

Don’t forget the current Paycom site. Paycom will 100% be demolished when the new building opens. There is a ton of property in play here.

[G.Walker]

We have had the same REHCO conversation for years. If a new $1B across the street won't push them to develop something special, then what will? The REHCO site is already probably the most valuable piece of land in the whole state. And now its about to become even more valuable. Sadly, I have a feeling part of it is just going to end up being a parking garage.

[Dob Hooligan]

I think Midtown Renaissance and REHCO are not merged at the level to be considered interchangeable in discussion. I think Midtown Renaissance is primarily Bob Howard and Mickey Clagg, with others involved at some level. I think the REHCO properties are primarily Bob Howard and the Hall family (Fred Jones companies, Hall Capital, etc.), with others involved. I think I heard that REHCO was put together as a result of the Ford Auto Collection experiment from around the year 2000, and the Halls and Howard teamed up to buy (or retain) the Fred Jones properties downtown, plus the Edmond area property that used to be Gwartney Ford, and currently houses Mercedes-Benz, Sprinter and Volvo of OKC.

I'm guessing everyone in the Thunder ownership group will want to participate in the development of the newly available space.

[warreng88]

Don’t forget the current Paycom site. Paycom will 100% be demolished when the new building opens. There is a ton of property in play here.

That's what I was referencing when I said "current arena" in the post above yours. I would love to see a Texas Live type of development on the current arena site and then a mixed-use development on the REHCO site. One can dream...

[bamarsha]

Don’t forget the current Paycom site. Paycom will 100% be demolished when the new building opens. There is a ton of property in play here.

That's unfortunate. I loved it when the Big XII could put the men's bball tourney at Chesapeake and the women's bball tourney at Cox... could walk back and forth. Plus, OKC could get some of the bigger concerts during Thunder season, instead of them all going to the BOK in Tulsa.

[Rover]

That's unfortunate. I loved it when the Big XII could put the men's bball tourney at Chesapeake and the women's bball tourney at Cox... could walk back and forth. Plus, OKC could get some of the bigger concerts during Thunder season, instead of them all going to the BOK in Tulsa.

The men's and women's tournaments haven't been returned here so I doubt if it was all that important to the conference and I doubt the SEC will be any different.

How many big concert dates in the last year clashed with the Thunder and made Tulsa the only option? Not many, if any at all, I would guess.

[Laramie]

The men's and women's tournaments haven't been returned here so I doubt if it was all that important to the conference and I doubt the SEC will be any different.

How many big concert dates in the last year clashed with the Thunder and made Tulsa the only option? Not many, if any at all, I would guess.

I know it has been repeated that OKC can't afford two arenas; however if we could juggle the services of Paycom Center and the new downtown Paycom Thunderdome arena--just imagine the concerts and large gatherings you could book in our city.

Wouldn't be so quick to discount Oklahoma City's chances of hosting any future SEC men and women's basketball tournaments. Don't see any evidence that OKC will be quick to demolish the current Paycom Center once the Paycom Thunderdome opens.

As beautiful as Austin is the SEC will want to have one of the schools (OU/UT) cities host an SEC event, OKC (IMO) would be better suited to host the SEC Tournaments once the new arena is built; hopefully, we'll have one more hotel added to OKC's portfolio by then.

[BDP]

Plus, OKC could get some of the bigger concerts during Thunder season, instead of them all going to the BOK in Tulsa.

Between now and April (end of the regular season), Paycom has 14 non-sports related performance acts booked. In the same time frame, looks like BOK has 8, maybe 10 depending on how you count the worship shows. BOK hosts a AA hockey team during that time, too.

In 2022, Paycom was in the top 40 of arena concert ticket sales according to Pollstar, hosting around 35 concerts, I think. There are arenas that have multiple major league tenants that host even more shows than that a year.