Access Oklahoma Turnpike Projects

[s00nr1]

yep all pike off did was cost norman millions of dollars in frontage roads that if norman ever wants in the future (they will) they will have to self fund ..

Indian Hills Rd, as is, is not going anywhere.

[rte66man]

If I'm reading it right, they will use Indian Hills Road as the northern frontage road for much of the path. Less takings that way.

[soonerj2015]

If I'm reading it right, they will use Indian Hills Road as the northern frontage road for much of the path. Less takings that way.

From Newcastle to just east of I35 the turnpike will run north of Indian Hills.

[TornadoKegan]

From Newcastle to just east of I35 the turnpike will run north of Indian Hills.

Yeah and what's sad is there was going to be a bunch of businesses up on the North side of where that turnpike was going to go. There's a chance they fund the road at least from that portion from 48th to 36th. However I think it's more likely they pull out all together.

[TornadoKegan]

I think what happened is there wasn't enough opposition to Pike Offs crazy agenda. And here we are

[TornadoKegan]

Not to mention those same people are trying to get the $1 billion entertainment district up to a vote so they can shoot that down too. Why would you want it up for a vote if you don't have an issue with it

[Jeremy Martin]

Not to mention those same people are trying to get the $1 billion entertainment district up to a vote so they can shoot that down too. Why would you want it up for a vote if you don't have an issue with it

I think the issue is that they don't feel like a decision that important should be left up to less than12 people.

[bombermwc]

The Pike Off folks can try to claim a win here but really it's not a win. They just screwed over Norman in the process. Norman lost support to pay for frontage roads and all the infra that went with it. In that area, that would have translated to economic development that would have more than paid for the expense. But here we are. We'll only have an exit at Sooner Rd and then nothing else. It does make it a true express connector that way, much like the east side connector. But without frontage and exits, you have no development, just like the east connector. If that's what you were after, then I guess you won?? The road was always going to be built so you didn't stop that from happening. You just cut out the benefits Norman may have received from it. Way to go???

[jn1780]

Like I mention a few posts up, This cuts Moore's access off from the East-West Connector. I bet they really start really pushing for 34st on and off ramps now. You can go south from 19th street, but any further north and you might as well use 240.

[MagzOK]

The Pike Off folks can try to claim a win here but really it's not a win. They just screwed over Norman in the process. Norman lost support to pay for frontage roads and all the infra that went with it. In that area, that would have translated to economic development that would have more than paid for the expense. But here we are. We'll only have an exit at Sooner Rd and then nothing else. It does make it a true express connector that way, much like the east side connector. But without frontage and exits, you have no development, just like the east connector. If that's what you were after, then I guess you won?? The road was always going to be built so you didn't stop that from happening. You just cut out the benefits Norman may have received from it. Way to go???

Exactly. Not to mention it'll be these same people who will be entirely up in arms when the exit ramps and the rest of the Sooner road interchange is completely congested during rush hour because it's the only exit in the area.

[Plutonic Panda]

I hate to say this because Norman as a town really does have his charm, but the people there and I apologize to anyone here that lives in Norman reading my message, but man, the people there are f@ckin dumb. And this isn’t even just about the turnpike. This has to do with so many other developments and so many other things Norman opposes. Edmond does the same sh!t. But to be frank, I don’t think Edmond is as bad. I just think Norman is an anti-development town that can’t stop all the development that comes through it because of how big Oklahoma City is getting. Whether or not those people like it they’re gonna have to face the reality that they are going to be surrounded by sprawl.

As for the proposed IKEA it sounded like a sure thing when this was all being proposed, but now given the fact that the service roads have been removed I have no idea if that’s still gonna happen or not. I don’t have any insider knowledge on this. This is just stuff that I was told by certain people. But I would be surprised now if it happens and it really sounded like it was. So I’m sure they will just go someplace else now. But who knows it seems like they’re still going to be a big development planned at that interchange on I 35.

It just sucks that Norman has to be the way that it is.

[Plutonic Panda]

sorry, double post

[jn1780]

I think 70% of people don't care one way or another. It can be argued though that they shouldn't let the loudest of the other 30% dictate what happens in their city.

Same thing can be said with state and national politics.

[Plutonic Panda]

I think 70% of people don't care one way or another. It can be argued though that they shouldn't let the loudest of the other 30% dictate what happens in their city.

Same thing can be said with state and national politics.

Fair point. I just think it’s a crying shame. The service roads were removed because it could’ve really fostered a lot of good development for the city.

[josefromtulsa]

The Pike Off folks can try to claim a win here but really it's not a win. They just screwed over Norman in the process. Norman lost support to pay for frontage roads and all the infra that went with it. In that area, that would have translated to economic development that would have more than paid for the expense.

That's very much not true. Suburban style development never pays for itself when considered over the long term. In 30 years when the access roads would need to be rebuilt or widened all on the cities dime. By then the development and buildings will be 30 years old so no one is moving their new stores there.

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/...y-has-no-money

[Plutonic Panda]

Oh, you’re quoting some stupid anti-Car anti-sprawl crap. Dude get out here with that sprawl does pay for itself over and over and it shows because it continues to support itself. It’s called subsidization.

[s00nr1]

I hate to say this because Norman as a town really does have his charm, but the people there and I apologize to anyone here that lives in Norman reading my message, but man, the people there are f@ckin dumb. And this isn’t even just about the turnpike. This has to do with so many other developments and so many other things Norman opposes. Edmond does the same sh!t. But to be frank, I don’t think Edmond is as bad. I just think Norman is an anti-development town that can’t stop all the development that comes through it because of how big Oklahoma City is getting. Whether or not those people like it they’re gonna have to face the reality that they are going to be surrounded by sprawl.

As for the proposed IKEA it sounded like a sure thing when this was all being proposed, but now given the fact that the service roads have been removed I have no idea if that’s still gonna happen or not. I don’t have any insider knowledge on this. This is just stuff that I was told by certain people. But I would be surprised now if it happens and it really sounded like it was. So I’m sure they will just go someplace else now. But who knows it seems like they’re still going to be a big development planned at that interchange on I 35.

It just sucks that Norman has to be the way that it is.

I know there's really very little point in arguing with you, but you do realize those that are fighting against this are either a) losing their homes, b) losing some of their property, or c) losing their home lifestyle, correct? And there are A LOT of folks that fall in one, or perhaps even all, of those categories -- that's the reason the noise is as loud as it is.

[jedicurt]

I know there's really very little point in arguing with you, but you do realize those that are fighting against this are either a) losing their homes, b) losing some of their property, or c) losing their home lifestyle, correct? And there are A LOT of folks that fall in one, or perhaps even all, of those categories -- that's the reason the noise is as loud as it is.

as someone who lives in norman and talks with a lot of people who were in the opposition, i can say with certainty that a vast majority of those against, fall into none of those 3 categories.

[Plutonic Panda]

I know there's really very little point in arguing with you, but you do realize those that are fighting against this are either a) losing their homes, b) losing some of their property, or c) losing their home lifestyle, correct? And there are A LOT of folks that fall in one, or perhaps even all, of those categories -- that's the reason the noise is as loud as it is.

OK, so let me ask you this in good faith. How do you propose we move people around? You want Oklahoma City to build a metro system? Do you honestly think that’s gonna work? There has to be a way to facilitate growth.

And yes, I do sympathize with people that are losing their homes and their properties. It sucks and it would be better if we could just build everything underground and money with no issue. But that is just not reality. We need these toll roads to expand and facilitate the growth of the city.

I know at least two people offhand who are gonna benefit greatly from this road one of them lives right by it and they are very happy. It is being built.

[s00nr1]

as someone who lives in norman and talks with a lot of people who were in the opposition, i can say with certainty that a vast majority of those against, fall into none of those 3 categories.

As someone who lives on the Norman/Moore border, in a neighborhood along Indian Hills Rd, I can say with certainty you are incorrect.

[jedicurt]

As someone who lives on the Norman/Moore border, in a neighborhood along Indian Hills Rd, I can say with certainty you are incorrect.

as someone who lives just 2 miles south of there in a massively large residential area where none of us fall into that category, i can tell you that a majority are against it here, and that is what i am hearing all across Norman, and those people are not directly affected... so i am not incorrect.

[bombermwc]

Two things...
It does not cut off Moore because the interchange is at Indian Hills Rd. In fact, for Moore residents, this a very welcome connector to bypass the traffic on 35. Moore still comes out in a good spot no matter what happens. And the road construction that will be done in Moore in preparation of the connector/interchange, wouldn't change if Norman did or didn't have frontage roads. It's to accommodate the traffic going to/from that interchange and the development that can still happen right there at Indian Hills. We get to spend bond money to turn a 2 lane into 4 land, and that's it. But with lots of benefit for flow and access since there isn't a 34th st exit on 35. IH is what they take. Whatever your thought about Moore is here, it's inaccurate.

As for sprawl, this isn't sprawl. This is actually in-fill, which is what you would want. Sprawl would be if it was developing south or Norman or way out east of Draper. Infill is what happens between the existing cities. Can't get much more infill than right between Moore and Norman, which has been slowly closing the gap for 20 years. That's literally why this thing is going in where it is.

[cinnamonjock]

To me, anti-development in Norman broadly falls into two categories: people who want to pretend they still live in a small college town, and old-guard environmentalists that reflexively oppose all new development. New environmentalists tend to understand that populations are increasing and people need places to live, so increasing density and incorporating walkability and transit are the most sustainable ways to build new homes.

[bombermwc]

Well if you live in Norman, it is so massive, it's really both still. Edmond too. There is an urban core, but also a VERY rural aspect. And i would argue that the rural area is actually more land in the city than not. Just do a google map search for norman, ok and it will show you the outline. My guess is that it's 40% urban and 60% rural, taking out the lake.

I honestly dont agree with the way things ended up falling out here and that Norman has lost an opportunity. But I can also see how many people would build out at say 60th and Tecumseh and have every reason to think that they wont have development near them. They have shot themselves in their own foot, to spite themselves. That's why i say i think the people think they have won something here by not getting the frontage/etc. And in the short-term, they may be able to maintain more of that rural feel and "win". But longer-term, it's really not a benefit for Norman.