I-35 / I-240 Exchange

[catcherinthewry]

I'm not saying I don't want the area north of 89th to see more investment, although there has been substantial investment (Southern Oak library remodel, Almonte library, new US Grant and Capitol Hill high schools, Senior Wellness Center, total renovation of Woodson Park). I take offense to anyone saying I'm not a Southsider and now apparently I just live in an extension of Moore just because I'm in the MPS footprint. Are the people between 80th and 74th west of Penn considered Westsiders because they are in part of the Western Heights school district?

Hopefully you can let us identify how we want to and we can get back to discussing the l-35 / l-240 exchange. Sorry for the hijacking of the thread.

[Plutonic Panda]

The I-35/I-240 interchange keeps getting screwed over and pushed back regardless of whatever else is happening on south OKC. This interchange was pretty much supposed to be done now or close to it.

[baralheia]

I think you're missing my point folks. I'm not trying to disconnect the two to say that far south OKC isn't developing. In fact I clearly said that it was. It's an extension of Moore on the west side as part of the MPS district and is a very attractive place to live. Lot's going on there.

My point was, that that far SW OKC area growing, shouldn't be a claim for an official to say that South OKC is getting the attention it needs. It would be like saying if NW OKC near Deer Creek is developing, then the work not being done near somewhere like 50th is ok. Or Deep Deuce counts for NE OKC. I think you get the point there. The extremes do not count for the inner sections and are really their own areas in their own right. Far SW OKC at 149/May does not equal 44th and Western, for example.

So I would call the area you're talking about the Inner Southside, and would define it as the area bordered by I-40 on the north end, Eastern ave on the eastern side, 89th St on the south side, and Portland on the west end. I live in this area and we have gotten a several flashy improvements over the last decade - like the addition of sidewalks along arterial streets, improvements at parks throughout the area (including the massive overhaul of Woodson Park), the construction of facilities like the Southern Oaks Health & Wellness campus, the Almonte library, and the Pete White Health & Wellness campus, and the road diet and bike lanes that they added to Walker between SW Grand and downtown... but it still feels like we get less attention than other areas of the city, and when we do, it's often half-assed. I mean, the walking path around Wilmont Lake has been washed out for nearly a decade now, heavily used arterials like 59th are in dire need of a proper rebuild (not the awfully cheaply done mill-and-surface job they did a few years before the pandemic), there's still TONS of sidewalks needed (when they did additional sidewalks along 59th, they added some to Western too - but only for one block north and like two blocks south before they abruptly end)... TONS of neighborhoods that desperately need their city-maintained streets repaved... More additions to the trails network (in their own dedicated rights of way) that would let those relying on alternative transportation more easily access places across the southside (Except for a trail from Tinker to Draper, there's zero trails south of Grand... Imagine if there were a trail that generally followed Brock Creek from just west of Wiley Post park down to OCCC and then down to Earlywine Park, or a trail that loosely followed Lightning Creek from Oliver Park on Grand down to Lightning Park on Western, or a trail that could connect OCCC east toward the trails at Draper)... Stuff like that. Big and flashy projects are awesome, but we need some infrastructure love too!

[bombermwc]

Baralheia, yes...all that. It's a difficult and costly thing to bring things like sidewalks into areas that didn't build them when the area was built up. But that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done for sure.

As for roads, they equally ignore the far SE section of town in terms of roads. It's too rural for sidewalks really, but when the roads are more pothole than pavement, well it's a problem. Like you said, they do some token things every once in a while to show they're "doing something", but the city still tends to like to stick to the big things and not spend so much time on the less sexy infrastructure elements. It's a bit annoying since roads were one of the biggest complaints for the last Maps program. But instead, we got a horse arena.

When i lived at 89th and sooner, I had constant conversations with my ward's representative. Most of it was completely a waste of time because simple things like getting the light on either side of the 240 bridge to be timed together was just claimed to be impossible (even though we do it all over the rest of the city and even other parts of 240), were barely acknowledged. That may have been as much the staffer filtering the conversations as the representative himself. Cornett and I had a conversation once about the fact that it was insane that in the 2020's, our water infrastructure didn't have diesel backup generators for when we had power failures. For whatever reason, that area had water issues quite a bit. We'd lose pressure every few months or the water would turn red from dirt in the lines. Overall, I had a pretty positive experience with the city offices (service center/etc). But I do wish the elected folks spent more time listening to the residents about what they are asking for (like roads).

For 240, getting the properly connected frontage roads the length of the interstate would be nice. They already screwed the pooch on that at the heart hospital and all points east. You can't spur development if you dont have access. And frontage road access is absolutely a requirement for development near an interstate. Who knows, maybe they are intentionally not letting it build near the flight path for fear of chapping Tinker's rear. Lord knows we all cave to their requests everywhere else.

[The]

Who knows, maybe they are intentionally not letting it build near the flight path for fear of chapping Tinker's rear. Lord knows we all cave to their requests everywhere else.

I get the sentiment, but to not do so seems like it would not end well for OKC.

[bombermwc]

I mean i understand....we dont want to do things to keep it off the radar (pun) of closures. But some of the folks on the Air Force side wouldn't be happy unless half of MWC and most of Del City were gone in those flight zones. That would include the areas on 240 between Douglas and Midwest Blvd too.

[jn1780]

Speaking of southside, the new future new east-west connector maybe somewhat of a small negative for retail along I-240. Right now, if you want to shop at Moore or Norman from far southwest Oklahoma City area you either take the streets to I-35 or you back track to I-240 and take that route. The east-west connector will make Moore and Norman retail more appealing for people who live in this specific area.

[Plutonic Panda]

Speaking of southside, the new future new east-west connector maybe somewhat of a small negative for retail along I-240. Right now, if you want to shop at Moore or Norman from far southwest Oklahoma City area you either take the streets to I-35 or you back track to I-240 and take that route. The east-west connector will make Moore and Norman retail more appealing for people who live in this specific area.

It doesn't help that the infrastructure on and along I-240 looks like sh!t either.

[The]

It doesn't help that the infrastructure on and along I-240 looks like sh!t either.

We need a like button!

[bison34]

It doesn't help that the infrastructure on and along I-240 looks like sh!t either.

More proof the city and state don't care at all about the southside of OKC.

[SouthSide]

Maps 3 included a trail along S May/Airport road in the implemenation plan. Which the Maps 3 subcommittee completely disregarded. Mike Adams put up a fight but the whole committee was against him and since no media coverage to let residents in south OKC know what was going on the city got away with it. I called the city and was connected to a "planner" and no one can tell when the outer south trail loop will be completed. Its clear its not a priority for the city.

[goldenHurricane22]

Question/observation on the interchange: having driven through this section a lot over the last year, I have observed that the I-35 south-bound afternoon rush hour traffic appears to be limited by the merging of the I-240 east and west-bound traffic onto I-35, all of which occurs after passing under I-240. Generally, traffic is stop-and-go until getting past the Exit 120 to S.E. 89th, where it then speeds up. This makes sense to me since it is basically trying to get the equivalent of 5 lanes of traffic condensed into 3 through lanes. From looking at the drawings, it looks like neither ramp coming from I-240 to I-35 south is going to have its own dedicated lane, still forcing all traffic to merge before the next exit. The planned I-240 west ramp to I-35 south does appear to have much more merge space, which I think will help somewhat at that spot. But if traffic is going to keep increasing at this intersection over time, I don't quite see how traffic flow is going to drastically improve, unless drivers become incredibly adept at the zipper merge. So, are there any plans with this project to expand the I-35 south lanes to make the oncoming traffic from I-240 (at least the east bound) have its own lane? Or, am I totally misunderstanding the level of traffic flow improvements that will come with this construction? (Which is highly possible, as I don't profess any expertise in roadway design). I get how this is going to improve safety by decoupling the on-and-off ramps of the existing cloverleaf, but I am not quite seeing how this is going to help through traffic flow on I-35 (other than reducing traffic trying to get onto I-240 from backing up, which does seem pretty relevant for I-35 north during the morning, even before construction started).

[bombermwc]

Well part of the reason for the interchange design changes are to prevent the backup and crossing traffic on the 240 bridge. Often the eastbound 240 to 35 N ramp traffic would back up because of the merge area underneath that, causing traffic to back up where it interfered with other donut right behind it. It really only affected the southern bridge and not the northern one. The 2 donut + flyover model prevents those traffic patterns from having to interact so much and with the larger donuts, it gives more space to absorb the ramp traffic before it backs up into the flow of traffic.

I would argue that 35 stays pretty well backed up at rush hour, until you get past 19th's offramp. It's not quite stop and go fully, but it's definitely packed in there. Absolutely up until 12th st. The only way that gets fixed is with more lanes or with express lanes. Like every highway, unless there's an alternative transportation method, eventually there isn't enough room to expand any more though and no number of reasonable lane count will help. As you introduce alternatives, the cars go that way. Then you make lane additions, people come back and fill it because they think it will be better now. I dont disagree that we have room and still can add more lanes on 35 south of 240 without breaking the bank. But we really need to invest in the same from 40 to 240...and that one is gonna be expensive.

[MagzOK]

The I240 offramp to southbound I35 needs to be a continuous lane all the way to an exit-only at SE 89th St. This would eliminate a forced merge right there under the 82nd St overpass and would allow those vehicles a good distance to merge or even stay in the lane to exit. That's a busy exit there with the Loves and other businesses around.

[bombermwc]

So it actually already is. That was already that way before the changes. Now it's just that the 2 ramp lanes squeeze together to one before 82nd st before it peels off as the exit only, maintaining the 3 lands of through traffic. If you mean 2 lanes of traffic all the way to 89th, well there's not enough exit traffic to warrant 2 lanes of exit traffic. So people are still going to merge over to keep going south. I don't see how that would help things. Right now, there is almost a mile for them to merge, but everyone tries to merge 6 inches after the ramp lines or even before because they just can't take it to keep moving.

[Plutonic Panda]

I will also add I wish this project at least included a rebuild of the Shields BLVD. bridge. Or at least a rehab and beautification. In reality at some point I-240 from I-35 will need to be expanded to eight lanes from I-35 to I-44 and it would be nice to see the service roads be 3 lanes each way and the exit/on ramps reversed. Of course they need to beautify the corridor as well. This is such an ugly stretch of freeway. It is also getting to where I-240 needs a six lane treatment from I-35 to I-40. None of that seems to even be on ODOT's radar at all.

[bombermwc]

Well the good news East of Eastern, is that they can go a VERY long way to making it 6 lanes without too much expense. Most of the bridges can accommodate that additional lane on the inside. Douglas and Air Depot would need work though. Honestly, Air Depot can be rethought now that GM isn't there. It doesn't need to be quite the massive structure it is. And hell, if they're going to close Douglas to through traffic, might as well do the work on Post Rd instead.

[Snowman]

Well the good news East of Eastern, is that they can go a VERY long way to making it 6 lanes without too much expense. Most of the bridges can accommodate that additional lane on the inside. Douglas and Air Depot would need work though. Honestly, Air Depot can be rethought now that GM isn't there. It doesn't need to be quite the massive structure it is. And hell, if they're going to close Douglas to through traffic, might as well do the work on Post Rd instead.

Between Tinker taking over the GM plant for engine servicing, other defense contractors expanding offices/workshops in that area since GM left, and Amazon setting up a distribution center. There probably is way more traffic on Air Depo then there ever was in the GM era. Granted Douglas is a bit overbuilt, but old bridge could handle a third lane each direction if ODOT is allowed to build without a shoulder for the ~50 feet under the bridge, but it looks like they are in the process of replacing it with wider spanned bridges.

[G.Walker]

This freeway intersection is horrid. Didn't really realize until now that I have to commute to the southside. ODOT should be ashamed of themselves for not redoing this 10 years ago. I almost got in 2 wrecks yesterday, just trying to get on 240 W from I-35 S. And for the commuters going east on 240, trying to get on I-35 N, bless their heart, smh.

[bombermwc]

They are taking their dang sweet time to get anything done on the east side of 35, but there is some progress.

The wall appears up on the eastbound side near Pole Rd. The first layer of asphalt also went down this week on the eastbound side under the Pole Rd and rail bridges.
The eastbound offramp for Eastern appears to be done, just waiting for traffic re-routing to be able to use it. They did open the new turn lane on the off ramp to southbound Eastern traffic. Although the path under the 240 bridge is still one lane, causing a 10 minute wait to get through that intersection. I honestly don't see why this is closed off and it sucks at rush hour.

Good news here is that at least it LOOKS like they will be ready to route traffic to the new side soon. Then they can start tearing out the westbound side. Hopefully, they learned a few lessons and can move a little more quickly over there. Unless the crew consists of 4 people, i cannot figure out why it's so slow going.

For as much as COULD be happening, there really isn't MUCH happening at any given time for some reason. Some of those flyovers could be under construction to the point like Tulsa's highway-henge....at least put in some supports. There's no bridge approach work starting over 35.