Holiday Inn Express

[Pete]

Yes, I think most will agree that garage is a monstrosity.

My point is that everything within that district is pretty much made of brick and is either old or has architectural elements that recall an earlier period -- like the ballpark.

I would not be in favor of bringing in modern-looking architecture within the Bricktown district. There is plenty of room for that in Lower BT and everywhere else... I'd really like to see BT proper keep the old-time feel to it. That's what makes it special in the first place.

[wsucougz]

I'm not talking about bringing in modern architecture such as what was pictured above in the first picture above, although I believe the 2nd, in red, would fit. I'm only suggesting bringing in other facade materials, some of which are commonly seen in more modern buildings, to combine with brick instead of the usual stucco.

Although I don't think it would be a stretch to incorporate some modern into bricktown, as long as it takes style cues from the past. Take something like this, for instance:

[CuatrodeMayo]

In many ways, modern architecture in the context of a historic district can actually help. By having the obviously new architecture in this context, it celebrates what is not new. It creates contrast and a distinction between old and new. Developers will never be able to replicate the look of the old warehouses. They will always look like cheap imitation. No matter how much brick ends up on the HIE, it will never look like the other brick warehouses. Just my $0.02.

[solitude]

Yes, I think most will agree that garage is a monstrosity.

My point is that everything within that district is pretty much made of brick and is either old or has architectural elements that recall an earlier period -- like the ballpark.

I would not be in favor of bringing in modern-looking architecture within the Bricktown district. There is plenty of room for that in Lower BT and everywhere else... I'd really like to see BT proper keep the old-time feel to it. That's what makes it special in the first place.

Pete, Just so I am clear about your viewpoint, you don't like this design? Are you thinking more of something like this with the top "sliced off" and less glass in the corner entrance? Something like that - but toned down?

[wsucougz]

Agreed, and at the risk of getting waaaay off point, I'm going to post some other examples that I think would look cool in Bricktown:



Proposed Denver infill:


If the white was red:


Pretty modern - a stretch?




As long as the red brick tie-in is there, I think we can get a lot more creative in Bricktown, to a point.

[solitude]

You make good points, cougar. The philosophical differences arise when Bricktown is placed in its historical context and not just the architecture. How far can you get away from Venice - in Venice? We have so little to actually preserve that introducing concepts that venture too far from the ambiance of the historical equation could completely destroy the cultural fabric going forward. To me, I like the design of the HIE in the picture in the post above (brick and glass corner entrance), but anything much more than that (more glass and modern design elements) may push it. Maybe the one I like pushes it. It's a tricky balance and one that deserves careful consideration.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Exactly, Cougar.

[Pete]

Just so I am clear about your viewpoint, you don't like this design? Are you thinking more of something like this with the top "sliced off" and less glass in the corner entrance? Something like that - but toned down?

No, I don't like it at all and think it would not be inappropriate for what is marketed as a historical district.

All the renderings shown would work well on the properties surrounding Bricktown but I think the relatively small area that constitutes the actual district should be developed/redeveloped with architecture that reflects that period.

I think this should be especially true when someone is proposing to tear down something that *is* historical. It would be a very bad trend to demolish authentic buildings in that area and replace with metal and reflective glass IMO.

[jbrown84]

I think the Denver rendering is historical enough.

[jsenter]

They should preserve the old facade and build the new hotel within the confines of the old facade.

[Pete]

Yes, the one Denver rendering would be the only one I would choose.

I love the other designs, just not for those few blocks in Bricktown.

[wsucougz]

They should preserve the old facade and build the new hotel within the confines of the old facade.

Agreed. Don't get me wrong, that's what I'd most like to see happen as well. It doesn't sound terribly promising, though.

[wsucougz]

It would be a very bad trend to demolish authentic buildings in that area and replace with metal and reflective glass IMO.

I'm talking about pulling in different styles, preferably incorporating the existing structure. What about Nonna's? I think it's the best looking structure in Bricktown, and definitely has some flair to it, though I have no idea what it looked like before.

I guess my point is that not everything has to be: here's a box with some brick and some stucco, give or take a percentage of each. What about incorporating reclaimed brick or timers or hardwoods? anything outside of this narrow line of thinking.

Other cities have sensitive historic districts. The continuity of the district can be preserved in unique and interesting ways.

The holiday inn express design, anywhere near as-is, has 0 imagination, and would be another blown opportunity. So I ask, how many more of those can Bricktown withstand without adversely affecting the character and quality of the district?

[Midtowner]

It looks like they want yet another structure which would be at home at just about any interstate exit in the country.

[Doug Loudenback]

I'm talking about pulling in different styles, preferably incorporating the existing structure. What about Nonna's? I think it's the best looking structure in Bricktown, and definitely has some flair to it, though I have no idea what it looked like before.

I guess my point is that not everything has to be: here's a box with some brick and some stucco, give or take a percentage of each. What about incorporating reclaimed brick or timers or hardwoods? anything outside of this narrow line of thinking.

Other cities have sensitive historic districts. The continuity of the district can be preserved in unique and interesting ways.

The holiday inn express design, anywhere near as-is, has 0 imagination, and would be another blown opportunity. So I ask, how many more of those can Bricktown withstand without adversely affecting the character and quality of the district?

Good point about Nonna's ...



Pretty cool warehouse, if you ask me! Maybe a New Orleans warehouse?

[Patrick]

I think Avis pulled some pretty interesting classy modern designs into what used to be just a plain ole big box warehouse, while still at the same time preserving the old warehouse. I like the alternating colors at night, and the 2nd floor outdoors patio.

The developers of this Holiday Inn Express need to try to blend their hotel in with the surrounding area, but at the same time, make it stand out, and make it look modernistic....similar to what Nonna's did. Bricktown is not a place for franchise style designs. They can go to Memorial Rd. or NW Expressway if they want to build that. What makes Bricktown unique are its restaurants located within old warehouse buildings.

If they want to build a franchise hotel, maybe they should do it in Lower Bricktown, or elsewhere in downtown.

I still like the variation of colors in their drawings, but maybe do it with different colors of brick. Just look at JC Penney at Penn Square Mall....they used different colors of brick to give a unique pattern.

[Patrick]

Here's a hotel my wife and I stayed at recently in Wichita's Old Town, which is similar to Bricktown, only with retail. They converted an old warehouse into a pretty classy hotel:

Hotel at Old Town -

[Patrick]

The Courtyard by Marriott at Old Town in Wichita is located in an old spanish style warehouse. The original facade still exists on the front...first two levels. They added on the upper two floors. I'm not hip in the stucco they used here, but it does blend in well with the original facade....which was Spanish style stucco.



I don't see why they couldn't retain the facade of the dairy building, and rebuild the inside, and add on a couple of levels, to match the bottom two levels, like they did with this warehouse building in Wichita.

[flintysooner]

I dislike the idea of trying to make replicas or build copies. The buildings when they were built fit the place and the time. It was a warehouse, industrial area then. Now it is an entertainment area. There should be a look and feel that is maintained but that, at least to me, should mean something more than copying.

I'm not sure a hotel should go there at all but if it should the entire idea of warehousing humans should be avoided.

[Patrick]

That's why we should retain the facade of the old dairy building....that way we wouldn't be copying. Just rebuild the inside, and add on a few floors on the top.

What do you mean by warehousing humans? Ummm....it's a historic warehouse district, not Belle Isle Wannabe Station.

[CuatrodeMayo]

I dislike the idea of trying to make replicas or build copies. The buildings when they were built fit the place and the time. It was a warehouse, industrial area then. Now it is an entertainment area. There should be a look and feel that is maintained but that, at least to me, should mean something more than copying.

Exactly.

[BDP]

Regardless of the specifics of design in bricktown or OKC at large, I think all review committees, our council, and chamber need to take a serious look at why we have such a hard time getting prospective developers to give any aesthetic consideration to their developments in the city. It seems to me that we get taken advantage of A LOT in this respect. Somehow, we've given outside developers and chains the impression that we just don't give a crap what our city looks like or how its built. Unfortunately, I actually think a lot of Oklahoma Citians do feel this way, but our developmental leaders should know better. All they have to do is pick just about any city regionally at random and they will find more consciences developments, often times by the very same companies that tell us they just can't do it here.

[Patrick]

Edmond ius a good model to follow. They're pretty strict on their developments. They don't approve a project just for the tax revenues. They look at every factor. That's why the Wal-Marts in Edmond tend to look nicer, and better landscaped, then those in OKC. OKC needs to demand better.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Edmond should be the last example we should follow.

Nicer WALMARTS!?!

[brianinok]

The point is that Edmond requires its developments blend with the area more, have more brick/rock, less EIFS, more landscaping, and more trees. That's not an example of what you want OKC to follow?? We're not talking about density in regards to this; Edmond is a suburb-- an upscale suburb.