New Arena (formerly Prairie Surf)

[iMAX386]

Pete any guestimate on when we might see the first renderings?

Listening to a podcast interview with Manica CEO he said they expect renderings in mid-2025, but that was a general timeline. They said the next 2 months will be their listening tour with the different stakeholders.

[PhiAlpha]

Yes, I am sure they are both as simplistic—with no reasons, morals, or evidence—as y'all paint them to be. OKC's entire history is filled with yes-men who did whatever the elites wanted in this city. I actually think it's a good thing there are some counsel members willing to take different perspectives and argue for a different city.

I wouldn't have posted this response except that it really bugs me when people bash them without even trying to explain their reasons for their vote.



I'm hoping to make it to Thunder @ Clippers next week so I'll report back. I'm as excited for the arena as I am for the game.

I mean they’ve literally voted against everything regarding the arena. If you didn’t want a new arena, that’s fine but the vote passed by 70+ percent making it clear that it’s what your constituents want. They’re now voting against approving THE ARCHITECT lol. It’s very obvious what they’re doing and they deserve to be called out for it .

[jn1780]

Yes, I am sure they are both as simplistic—with no reasons, morals, or evidence—as y'all paint them to be. OKC's entire history is filled with yes-men who did whatever the elites wanted in this city. I actually think it's a good thing there are some counsel members willing to take different perspectives and argue for a different city.

I wouldn't have posted this response except that it really bugs me when people bash them without even trying to explain their reasons for their vote.

Fair enough. I guess their 'Official" reasoning is that it wasn't the lowest bid or feel like the scope will always be "too big".

[warreng88]

Is it too much for me to read into this in that Manica will the architect for the arena (pretty straight forward on the press release) and maybe TVS is the architect for everything else that will go on that block? The reason I ask is that TVS's background has more to do with hotels, office buildings and common areas. They have several projects that are mixed-use developments including an amphitheater in Georgia and then places like the UGA performing arts center, Georgia southern PAC and other performance venues. I am probably not breaking any new ground, but thought it was interesting after looking at their project list.

[Pete]

Is it too much for me to read into this in that Manica will the architect for the arena (pretty straight forward on the press release) and maybe TVS is the architect for everything else that will go on that block? The reason I ask is that TVS's background has more to do with hotels, office buildings and common areas. They have several projects that are mixed-use developments including an amphitheater in Georgia and then places like the UGA performing arts center, Georgia southern PAC and other performance venues. I am probably not breaking any new ground, but thought it was interesting after looking at their project list.

I believe you are exactly right. TVS doesn't do arenas; they do hotels and mixed-use projects.

It's amazing to me that at this point of the process, we still don't have even the vaguest idea of what else might be built other than an arena. Any mixed-use aspect hasn't even been mentioned, nor who will build/own it.

I'm as happy as anyone that we will be getting a new arena but the lack of transparency in OKC when it comes to spending billions of tax-payer money is astonishing.

And as a reminder, this is not going to be handled the same way as previous sales-tax-funded projects like MAPS. There will be no citizen oversight committee and they haven't even disclosed how they plan to share information as they proceed.

[BB+1]

Curious how architects are awarded a bid without the city counsel seeing even a conceptual idea of what they propose to build. Is that common practice? Seems like a massive leap of faith for something of this magnitude.

[Pete]

Curious how architects are awarded a bid without the city counsel seeing even a conceptual idea of what they propose to build. Is that common practice? Seems like a massive leap of faith for something of this magnitude.

It's common practice.

There was an extensive RFP, a process to select a handful of finalists, then interviews.

It's all based on their vision and body of work and how it aligns with the project. Renderings and concepts come later, once they are under contract.

[David]

I know we're a ways away from it but I'd like to see a site plan more than anything at this point, I am curious to see what else they have planned for activating that block and if we're going to get a connection over to Sante Fe station.

[jdg78]

I believe you are exactly right. TVS doesn't do arenas; they do hotels and mixed-use projects.

It's amazing to me that at this point of the process, we still don't have even the vaguest idea of what else might be built other than an arena. Any mixed-use aspect hasn't even been mentioned, nor who will build/own it.

I'm as happy as anyone that we will be getting a new arena but the lack of transparency in OKC when it comes to spending billions of tax-payer money is astonishing.

And as a reminder, this is not going to be handled the same way as previous sales-tax-funded projects like MAPS. There will be no citizen oversight committee and they haven't even disclosed how they plan to share information as they proceed.

I will let the cat out of the bag…. The city isn't being transparent as I suspect the thunder ownership will own the development around the arena. Just my hunch. I am guessing a really cheap 100 year ground lease for the out parcels….

[Pete]

I will let the cat out of the bag…. The city isn't being transparent as I suspect the thunder ownership will own the development around the arena. Just my hunch. I am guessing a really cheap 100 year ground lease for the out parcels….

I'm sure you are right but simply amazing this hasn't even been discussed to date.

I love OKC more than anyone, but all the big decisions with tax money are still made in back rooms among a handful of people. In many ways, we still operate like a small town.

[Anonymous.]

I know we're a ways away from it but I'd like to see a site plan more than anything at this point, I am curious to see what else they have planned for activating that block and if we're going to get a connection over to Sante Fe station.

I would expect the actual arena footprint to be along the furthest NE side of the property having primary entrance be on the S of the arena with all activation space and garage/hotel/food/shop to be along the SE to SW sides of the site. Then a makeover of the streetcar stop on the NW corner with secondary entrance to arena.

I would not be surprised to see EKG closed during games just like Reno gets currently.

Major pipedream because of cost, but imagine if we could put EKG below-grade at the Santa Fe station and allow the "capped" roadway to be direct connection into the arena site.


Toronto's arena is similarly positioned near their main transportation hub, but they use a series of skybridges and tunnels to connect to the arena.

[Bellaboo]

Probably a new concept for Thunder Alley ?

[Jake]

I'm very curious as to what this will actually fully cost in the end.

[Pete]

Probably a new concept for Thunder Alley ?

Certainly, as the ownership group was behind that and then everything stopped when the focus shifted to a new arena.

[Pete]

I'm very curious as to what this will actually fully cost in the end.

I've already calculated that based on previous MAPS projections vs. what was actually collected, we will be well north of $1B.

[mugofbeer]

I'm sure you are right but simply amazing this hasn't even been discussed to date.

I love OKC more than anyone, but all the big decisions with tax money are still made in back rooms among a handful of people. In many ways, we still operate like a small town.

I think thats done everywhere with such projects. Denver's plan around Ball Arena had similar secrecy until the formal announcement this week.

[warreng88]

I would expect the actual arena footprint to be along the furthest NE side of the property having primary entrance be on the S of the arena with all activation space and garage/hotel/food/shop to be along the SE to SW sides of the site. Then a makeover of the streetcar stop on the NW corner with secondary entrance to arena.

I would not be surprised to see EKG closed during games just like Reno gets currently.

Major pipedream because of cost, but imagine if we could put EKG below-grade at the Santa Fe station and allow the "capped" roadway to be direct connection into the arena site.


Toronto's arena is similarly positioned near their main transportation hub, but they use a series of skybridges and tunnels to connect to the arena.

If I remember correctly, there will be an addition (not sure in what capacity) to the multi-modal stop at Santa Fe Train Station, so I am going to guess that is on the full east side of the space. I hope we don't have a big gaudy parking garage taking up one of any of the corners and there is at least ground floor retail or hotel built into it. Even better would be for the parking garage to be built in the middle of the development but ingress and egress would be tricky that way.

[Anonymous.]

I think thats done everywhere with such projects. Denver's plan around Ball Arena had similar secrecy until the formal announcement this week.

I just saw this, the proposal looks amazing. They are sorta lucky in a way that the current arena is surrounded by a wasteland of parking, so it is easily developable. OKC has development surrounding the site. I am actually going to Ball Arena tomorrow night for their home opener against OKC, will be cool to see it before it has the areas transformed.

[Pete]

I think thats done everywhere with such projects. Denver's plan around Ball Arena had similar secrecy until the formal announcement this week.

Big difference: the Denver arena has been in place for a while and the development around it is a completely separate project. Our situation is that all this will be done at once with public funds and I guarantee you there were plenty of handshake deals that coincided with the arena.

[Anonymous.]

If I remember correctly, there will be an addition (not sure in what capacity) to the multi-modal stop at Santa Fe Train Station, so I am going to guess that is on the full east side of the space. I hope we don't have a big gaudy parking garage taking up one of any of the corners and there is at least ground floor retail or hotel built into it. Even better would be for the parking garage to be built in the middle of the development but ingress and egress would be tricky that way.

Not all garages have to be horrible. But I guarantee there will be a garage as a part of the OKC arena site.

[Pete]

There were about 1,000 spaces under the Cox Center.

I pray they do something similar rather than building another hideous parking structure that is nothing but an eyesore along a major downtown road.

[warreng88]

Not all garages have to be horrible. But I guarantee there will be a garage as a part of the OKC arena site.

Agreed. I feel like as long as it is part of A structure and not something separate. that will help a lot. Back in 2015, I had to go to Little Rock to work and there were four buildings within a stones' throw of each other that all had parking garages built into the project. I also went to Nashville for work and stayed at the Cambria hotel right off of Broadway that had at least three levels of parking with a large restaurant on the ground level and then amenities from the fourth floor up. There are definitely ways to do it, it's just will it be done.

[catcherinthewry]

And as a reminder, this is not going to be handled the same way as previous sales-tax-funded projects like MAPS. There will be no citizen oversight committee and they haven't even disclosed how they plan to share information as they proceed.

From what I've been told the Thunder want to have as much control of this project as possible to the point of trying to tell the City who and who can't be involved in meetings. The City needs to reminds them who owns the building and who is paying the vast majority of the costs.

[Pete]

From what I've been told the Thunder want to have as much control of this project as possible to the point of trying to tell the City who and who can't be involved in meetings. The City needs to reminds them who owns the building and who is paying the vast majority of the costs.

That's not the way things work in OKC, which is why there won't be a citizen's committee.

I don't see any reason this project should be handled differently than the MAPS process which has been refined and successful for over 30 years. It is MAPS, just by a different name.

[catcherinthewry]

I don't see any reason this project should be handled differently than the MAPS process which has been refined and successful for over 30 years. It is MAPS, just by a different name.

I agree. I just think it is the Thunder management and not the City that is against a citizen's committee. The Thunder would love to push the City out of the decision making so there's no way they'd let citizens have a voice.