Access Oklahoma Turnpike Projects

[Plutonic Panda]

They can still build the service roads. It depends on how much they feel like doing it. It could add more revenue to their system since more people might use it if it spurs commercial development but since Norman has said they won't take ownership of the service roads it would be up to the OTA to maintain it. That's the way I understand it. The more I learn about Norman the more I dislike that town and it isn't just about the anti tollway sh!t.

[vaflyer]

the interchange with I35 is currently in design and is NOT a future project ..

An OTA spokesperson said “The I-35 and East-West Connector interchange is anticipated to resemble the John Kilpatrick Turnpike and SH-74 interchange. Once design is further along we will know exactly what the footprint will be. As traffic demand grows, the interchange ultimately could be built out to a five-level interchange like what you see in the Dallas metro area.”

See https://okcfox.com/news/local/broken...inst-turnpikes

Thus, if the I-35 interchange ramps with the East-West Turnpike are built in phases, then OTA needs access roads to have interim access between the I-35 and the East-West Turnpike just like they have with the Kilpatrick Turnpike and the Hefner Freeway.

[bombermwc]

That's probably the most completely stupid interchange to ever mirror for any construction job ever. Let's exit the interstate to the city street and sit through 2 lights, just to get back on the interstate.

I still dont know why OTA hasn't ever put in a proper Hefner parkway north, to Kilpatrick West ramp.

[BoulderSooner]

I still dont know why OTA hasn't ever put in a proper Hefner parkway north, to Kilpatrick West ramp.

that ramp is part of the current OTA slate of projects

[MagzOK]

It could sure use a EB to NB ramp, too.

I hate the way OTA just half-bakes stuff. Sell the dang bonds and do it right. Here's looking at you SB BWX to EB JKT. I also think there should be an EB exit ramp at Santa Fe Ave to alleviate some of the daily Western Ave backup. They've got plenty of room there now that they don't have a toll plaza, just put a ramp there.

[Plutonic Panda]

That's probably the most completely stupid interchange to ever mirror for any construction job ever. Let's exit the interstate to the city street and sit through 2 lights, just to get back on the interstate.

I still dont know why OTA hasn't ever put in a proper Hefner parkway north, to Kilpatrick West ramp.

Texas has tons of these.

[josefromtulsa]

It could sure use a EB to NB ramp, too.

I hate the way OTA just half-bakes stuff. Sell the dang bonds and do it right. Here's looking at you SB BWX to EB JKT. I also think there should be an EB exit ramp at Santa Fe Ave to alleviate some of the daily Western Ave backup. They've got plenty of room there now that they don't have a toll plaza, just put a ramp there.

Building a 5 or 4 stack is so ridiculously expensive. Their own revenue predictions (read traffic predictions) know that they would not be able to sustainably build such a large interchange from the get go.

For reference the famous high five interchange in Dallas cost over $400 million dollars over to plan, design, and build.

[Plutonic Panda]

The price is worth it. Cloverleafs are horrible let alone volleyball interchanges.

[MagzOK]

Building a 5 or 4 stack is so ridiculously expensive. Their own revenue predictions (read traffic predictions) know that they would not be able to sustainably build such a large interchange from the get go.

For reference the famous high five interchange in Dallas cost over $400 million dollars over to plan, design, and build.

It would be worth it alone with the growing traffic and revenue it will garner. This is why cross-pledging was introduced.

[josefromtulsa]

The price is worth it. Cloverleafs are horrible let alone volleyball interchanges.

I know we went through the whole argument already so ill just say that I wish a fraction of that money could be invested in better public transit. OKC spent $30 million for the NW Rapid and its their best performing line. Most of it was paid by a federal BUILD grant too so I think Embark spent $6 million. The other two planned BRT routes are $70 million. I know the OTA doesn't do transit but an RTA with OTA-level powers would be great. (This will be my last comment making this point. This project has a high likelihood of happening and its even beginning to alter some work projects.)


But I do agree that clover leafs are bad by todays design standards.

[Pete]

Press release:

********

OTA announces revised footprint for East-West Connector project
9/13/24

A revised footprint for the East-West Connector turnpike corridor in Norman, Moore, Oklahoma City and Cleveland County is available for viewing on the www.accessoklahoma.com website today. Residents and property owners will see that the extents of the rights-of-way now needed for the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority project are anticipated to be significantly reduced after the removal of proposed frontage roads and three interchanges.

"The OTA met with municipal leaders of all communities impacted by this new turnpike route in early 2022 to see how the project could align with local infrastructure needs. Ultimately, frontage roads are a local decision and we respect the City of Norman's choice to not add to their transportation infrastructure," OTA Executive Director Joe Echelle said. "With this decision made, OTA has worked as quickly as possible to provide updated information to property owners in the area in order to provide certainty for all those impacted.

"While these changes create some up-front redesign costs for OTA, the removal of the frontage roads and three interchanges also will save millions of dollars in design, right-of-way acquisition and utility relocation and construction costs," Echelle said.

Initially, the 28-mile new alignment will connect the I-44/Tri-City area of Newcastle, Blanchard and Tuttle at SH-37/N.W. 32nd St. and cross the South Canadian River east to I-35. Ultimately, the corridor will continue northeast to I-40 to connect to the Kickapoo Turnpike. The East-West Connector is a segment of the Oklahoma City Outer Loop, first envisioned by state and municipal leaders more than 30 years ago. It will serve as another east-west high-speed expressway facility to move traffic across the metro area and provides an additional river crossing.

"Engineering design work is ongoing for the first segment of the East-West Connector between I-44 and I-35 and we expect to know the full extent of property acquisition needs for this project by the end of this year. While we had expected to reach 60 percent design completion in October, it will take some additional time to rework the design plans to remove the frontage roads and additional interchanges at 36th St., Broadway and 48th Ave.," OTA Deputy Director and Chief Engineer T.J. Dill said. "This new, high-speed corridor will connect with the state highway and interstate system at I-44, I-35 and SH-77H/Sooner Rd./12th Ave. N.E."

[jn1780]

Looks like I-35 interchange will still be a "full stack" since Indian Hills Road is going through there. They just deleted one frontage road.

[PM1]

The exit closest to where I live is gone, which kinda reduces the convenience.

[FighttheGoodFight]

Weird looking at that old map as Andy Alligators has been torn down for a long time. I was confused on what the build was for a bit.

I guess my questions is, is this road going over the intersection of 48th, 36th and 24th?

[s00nr1]

Indian Hills in front of my 'hood will stay as is. Fantastic.

[cinnamonjock]

Dave Moore, a member of Pike Off OTA, a nonprofit designed to stop OTA turnpike expansion, said the majority of council sides with turnpike protesters. He added Pike Off OTA will continue to protest until the ACCESS Oklahoma plans in Norman are gone.

“We're playing a big game of chicken. And you know who wins a game of chicken? The person who quits first,” Moore said. “Well, we're not going to quit.

https://www.oudaily.com/news/oklahom...9c06bf3b7.html

So, if I'm reading this right, Norman is not going to have any onramps, offramps, or frontage roads to the turnpike? That's the worst possible outcome. OTA is still going to claim a bunch of properties but now none of the residents will get to use the turnpike.

I understand many of these property owners are feeling helpless, but continuing to "play chicken" is not going to change anything. The turnpikes are all but done. Might as well get to use them.

[jedicurt]

https://www.oudaily.com/news/oklahom...9c06bf3b7.html

So, if I'm reading this right, Norman is not going to have any onramps, offramps, or frontage roads to the turnpike? That's the worst possible outcome. OTA is still going to claim a bunch of properties but now none of the residents will get to use the turnpike.

I understand many of these property owners are feeling helpless, but continuing to "play chicken" is not going to change anything. The turnpikes are all but done. Might as well get to use them.

i think the OTA said there would still be three off ramps, on ramps, but yes, no frontage roads for the East-West corridor. i think the three ramps are NW 48th, I-35, and Sooner rd

i have no idea if anything has been talked about yet on the North-South Corridor, but it does sound like the OTA is just going to do what they feel is best

[jn1780]

https://www.oudaily.com/news/oklahom...9c06bf3b7.html

So, if I'm reading this right, Norman is not going to have any onramps, offramps, or frontage roads to the turnpike? That's the worst possible outcome. OTA is still going to claim a bunch of properties but now none of the residents will get to use the turnpike.

I understand many of these property owners are feeling helpless, but continuing to "play chicken" is not going to change anything. The turnpikes are all but done. Might as well get to use them.

There is no game of "Chicken" being played. OTA has moved on with the less ramp and no frontage design. Pike-off is just screaming into the void now. OTA would probably hate having to go back yet again and design with frontage roads.

[BoulderSooner]

There is no game of "Chicken" being played. OTA has moved on with the less ramp and no frontage design. Pike-off is just screaming into the void now. OTA would probably hate having to go back yet again and design with frontage roads.

yep all pike off did was cost norman millions of dollars in frontage roads that if norman ever wants in the future (they will) they will have to self fund ..

[W8N2SKI]

yep all pike off did was cost norman millions of dollars in frontage roads that if norman ever wants in the future (they will) they will have to self fund ..

This is a prime case of FAFO. I also blame the city council for placating these people even though the council members knew there was nothing they could do to stop the turnpike from getting built in Norman. They should have just explained that the best they could do was make the best of a bad situation for these people who were losing their homes.

[cinnamonjock]

The mayor was attempting to be pragmatic about it and doing what you mentioned, but a few council members ran on an anti-turnpike platform and replaced others. It's a situation with a loud and vocal opposition and, in my view, the majority are pretty apathetic about it all.

[W8N2SKI]

The mayor was attempting to be pragmatic about it and doing what you mentioned, but a few council members ran on an anti-turnpike platform and replaced others. It's a situation with a loud and vocal opposition and, in my view, the majority are pretty apathetic about it all.

My personal opinion is that the city got what it deserves. The same will be true with regard to the arena. All this opposition will end up hurting the city in the long run.

Major retailers will overlook Norman based on actions like these. IKEA will be a prime example. I guarantee without a service road, there is zero chance IKEA will look at the SW corner of the interchange now.

[CaptDave]

yep all pike off did was cost norman millions of dollars in frontage roads that if norman ever wants in the future (they will) they will have to self fund ..

True story. I wanted to be sure the eastern part of this expansion didn't impact the Thunderbird water shed, but opposing the east-west connector never made sense.

What happened is the Norman NIMBY's who knee jerk oppose everything came together with people who normally would be all in for more highways if it were other peoples homes being taken, but their property was impacted. In many ways it is a weird alliance.

[jn1780]

In the short term, the east-west connector frontage roads would have more useful to Moore who has lots of developments all the way down to its southern boundaries. I noticed OKC has one small frontage road where the future turnpike goes through its boundaries.

[bombermwc]

There is a vote on Tuesday in Moore for bond money to make Telephone (36th) be 4 lanes from SW 34th to Indian Hills. They did a terrible job of explaining why they wanted to do this, but it makes a lot more sense after seeing this. Skuttle is that that lot may be a potential Ikea spot (someone on OKCTalk said that, not me).

I wish it was a little more detailed on the east side of the interchange. I see 3 lines, so is that one frontage and not the other? But with the way the ramps go, it looks like it might just be a blurry design? It's just not super clear. When i look at the website map, it looks to me like Indian Hills is intact and the the connector is mostly parallel to IH for most of the path. As said, it will take less land since they are not having to buy land for frontage roads. To me, that makes it look like this will be a big stack for 35/connector/IH all being taken into consideration.