The Decline of Detroit - How To Prevent in OKC?

[Pete]

My parents are a year younger than you - my dad graduated from OU and stayed in OKC. I am surprised there is not a ripple effect of the size of the "elder millennial" population in OKC based on that early 80s downturn - the elder millennials being the kids of those early 80s grads who left the state. There seems to be a pretty big population of 35-40 year olds in OKC today. Had I grown up out of state, I'm sure I would've gone to college in that state (or not in Oklahoma) and probably would not have ended up in OKC after school. Maybe by this logic, the elder millennial population in OKC would be even larger today had the local economy not crashed in the early 80s and driven people away from the state.

And anecdotally, most of my friends who were from out of state but attended OU/OSU returned back to their homes out of state after school, so I don't know that there's been a huge influx of elder millennials from out of state. The stats could be different though.

I keep the database for my high school class, Putnam City 1978, all 905 of us. We were the last class before PC North was opened and at the time considered the top school in the state.

And I can tell you that more than half of my classmates are not living in Oklahoma. Those who didn't immediately leave for an out-of-state college left in the 80s and 90s, which is exactly what I did. And the database also tells me those who left tend to be more highly educated.

Similarly, I keep a database for my OU fraternity for my age and a few years older and younger. The majority are not in Oklahoma.

Of course, lots of people my age stayed and had kids. But I remember David Boren speaking at an L.A. OU Club meeting and talking about the terrible effects of Oklahoma's 'brain drain'. That has now mostly reversed but it took decades. And I still don't see much evidence of highly educated people moving here without prior family connections.

[Dob Hooligan]

I think 1978-83 was a great time to be in OKC and a young adult. The Oil Boom was about as good as claimed. The hard times didn't hit everyone and really didn't start crashing until 83-84, IMO. I also think end of the 80s into the mid 90s were the toughest times. The S&L crisis of 1988ish up seemed to dry up any capital that was left in the banking system. A lot of good bankers were crushed and never came back after that.

[Urbanized]

I’d been visiting Oklahoma my whole life - I didn’t grow up here but my parents both did and my family roots are six generations deep - but I didn’t move here until 1986. I was as happy as a pig in slop, because I’d held Oklahoma up as the promised land in my mind since I was a baby. It’s all my parents talked about, and all of my extended family was based here.

But as an 18 year old I had no understanding of what an abysmal economy I had landed in. Didn’t really matter to me; I was starting college and my dad and stepmom were securely employed. But I look back now on the carnage that was surrounding me and I’m sort of astonished at how bad it was. With more maturity and perspective I understand how bad some people in my orbit had it.

You could very easily buy crack or a prostitute in places like Plaza District or Paseo. Heck, you could buy a boarded up home in Paseo for five thousand bucks. Grand homes in Heritage Hills that today fetch a million or two were chopped up into slummy flop houses. Some of those places were still like that well into the nineties or even early 2000s. OKC was a bleak place.

The people missing from OKC are GenX. I knew so many people who finished school at OU and OSU who left town like their hair was on fire in the late eighties and early nineties. Some of them returned, but many are still missing. I remember when my uncle (very successful broker with Henderson Properties, IYKYK) was loading up to move to Plano and told me “we all need to get out of this sinkhole.” He moved to DFW and started doing business with people like Jerry Jones.

I remember my grandmother telling me about the Dust Bowl and the Depression. It blew my mind, and yet I still to this day don’t think I accurately comprehend it, even at 56. I’ve seen the pictures. I’m smart. I’m empathetic. I have imagination. But I still don’t think I can accurately guess what it felt like to live here then. The dust, the poverty, the desperation, the hopelessness.

And I’m telling you, unless you lived in this town in the 1980s you have no idea what you’re talking about when you discuss that era.

[Rover]

Someone was wearing their rose colored nostalgia glasses again(You see a lot of these kind of posts at this time of year). These same old timers talk about how they had to walk through an apocalyptic wasteland to get to school.

Some people assume that the way OKC is now is basically how it always was. I have lived in Tulsa and here and owned businesses here since mid 70s after graduating from OU and can tell you that those that pass off OKC and Oklahoma’s dire past are not students of history or facts. Dismissing the testimony of those who have lived through is is the arrogance of youth and absence of perspective.

[Laramie]

[Laramie]

[Pete]

And I’m telling you, unless you lived in this town in the 1980s you have no idea what you’re talking about when you discuss that era.

Yep.

I had a unique perspective because I was a commercial real estate broker from '82-'89. I knew every square inch of OKC, and the huge percentage of the core was just no man's land.

We wouldn't even take listings in Midtown, Bricktown, Paseo, Plaza, Uptown, Auto Alley and most of downtown. Forget Film Row, Farmer's Market, Deep Deuce, the northeast side and most other districts. Most places were completely vacant and/or abandoned and there was simply no market for any property in those areas.

There was the Sheraton and the Skirvin, but things were so bad the latter closed and stayed that way for two decades.

My firm moved to Leadership Square in 1984, but all that new development accomplished was bleeding the existing buildings to the point First National Center and others were teetering on the edge of oblivion.

This was before the Memorial corridor really took off and the whole far north / Edmond boom had yet to happen. The only place there was any real movement -- and it was very minor -- was the NW Expressway corridor.


People can talk all day about memories but having my complete livelihood based on commercial real estate which is the biggest economic indicator, I dealt with the most stark of realities.

I have always loved OKC as much (maybe more) as anyone, yet even I left in 1989, something I never, ever thought I would do. THAT's how bad things were heading into the 90s.

[Urbanized]

…Dismissing the testimony of those who have lived through is is the arrogance of youth and absence of perspective.

100%. This.

[Teo9969]

I can say as a PC North grad in 2006 (easily the top public school within OKC proper at the time) all I could hear was how many people were ready to get out of OKC after high school. Growing up in the 90s and then starting to come of age in the early 2000s nothing was exciting enough to that group of people to start planning a future within the city and these were bright kids who could help innovate...I imagine some of that worldview was shaped by their parents who may not have always spoken fondly of the city. If it was that bad as the MAPs-1 era was coming to a close, I really don't know what my parents were thinking coming (back in one case) to OKC from Denver and Iowa in the mid-80s.

[PhiAlpha]

I can say as a PC North grad in 2006 (easily the top public school within OKC proper at the time) all I could hear was how many people were ready to get out of OKC after high school. Growing up in the 90s and then starting to come of age in the early 2000s nothing was exciting enough to that group of people to start planning a future within the city and these were bright kids who could help innovate...I imagine some of that worldview was shaped by their parents who may not have always spoken fondly of the city. If it was that bad as the MAPs-1 era was coming to a close, I really don't know what my parents were thinking coming (back in one case) to OKC from Denver and Iowa in the mid-80s.

Ha. I graduated in 2006 (from Edmond). My parents also returned from Denver in the mid-80s.

[TornadoKegan]

1. Elect the Right Leaders ( Detroit fell due to the leaders not helping the community)
2. Elect sheriffs that are tough on crime.
3.be involved in city hall meeting's allow your leaders to hear your feedback

[Dob Hooligan]

Man, some of you guys are young. Or, maybe I'm old?

And one thing I have learned through my oldness is that young adults naturally want to make their own life. A lot more young people want to leave town than actually do. And some come back.

I wouldn't begrudge anyone who left between 1985-95. Wasn't much to look forward to then. And I have tremendous respect for those who did come back.

[Rover]

1. Elect the Right Leaders ( Detroit fell due to the leaders not helping the community)
2. Elect sheriffs that are tough on crime.
3.be involved in city hall meeting's allow your leaders to hear your feedback

Add….
Make sure your primary industry doesn't get lazy and lose sight of market changes, putting thousands and thousands out of work and crippling the tax base.

[Dob Hooligan]

Add….
Make sure your primary industry doesn't get lazy and lose sight of market changes, putting thousands and thousands out of work and crippling the tax base.

I’m trying to figure out if you are referring to the domestic auto industry in the 1980s, or the domestic oil & gas industry in the 1980s? Because, when I think about it, it appears both suffered mightily in the face of market changes and innovation.

[Rover]

I’m trying to figure out if you are referring to the domestic auto industry in the 1980s, or the domestic oil & gas industry in the 1980s? Because, when I think about it, it appears both suffered mightily in the face of market changes and innovation.

The post was in context of the post i was responding to. The auto industry failures devastated Detroit and would have done so no matter how smart the mayor or other politicians were or how many people the police would have arrested.

The failure in the oil business affected OKC but the loose banking regulations and abuse almost brought down the whole banking system. A hyper financed oil business based on ever escalating prices couldn't stand lower prices and failed loans.