Why I am voting No.

[Luke]

All I'm saying is, just because "lots of other cities" finance their teams with a tax on everyone, doesn't mean we have to.

I am someone who would actually go to an NBA game. I went to a few Hornets games. I had a great time. I hope, hope, hope that the Sonics (or whoever) are able to call OKC home.

I understand the Ford Center is a city-owned building and that NBA upgrades are needed. I am just so against wealthy businessmen passing the buck onto us. If they really are the philanthropists we think they are and have such civic pride because OKC is "major league" now, then why don't they provide the financing.

And as I said earlier, why don't we ask the biggest beneficiaries of an NBA move to chip in? MidFirst, Chesapeake, Devon, BOk, OGE, Mathis Bros., The Oklahoman, Hilton Skirvin, Renaissance, Marriott, Bricktown Restaurant Owners...

Even if we DO get an NBA team, everybody who paid the taxes to get the upgrades will still have to buy a ticket to get in!

And the comments here that imply the NBA is not a profitable business, and that owners are supporting NBA out of sheer love for the game is nostalgic, but ridiculous. If the NBA isn't a profitable, then that's even one more reason that public money shouldn't be thrown at an upgrade expressly for the NBA.

[gmwise]

Open Letter to Mayor Cornett:
I am Voting NO on March 4, and I'm sadden to know the Council is lending the way to bleed us dry for these few.
I'm not to surprised by your actions.
I remember when you decided to run for a higher office and got your backside kicked.
I also remember the exit polls, when the voters were asked why they voted that way.
Do you?
"Because he {You} haven't done anything for the City."
You wanted a light railed system, which once again is not good stewardship, and was turned down by public opinion.
We both know the MAPS is not your vision, your claim to fame.
You decided to survey the City, and now that you didn't like the results, you changed the order in which to do things in this effort to be remembered for your next "higher office drive."
The bringing a NBA and delivery a FORD CENTER VOTE YES victory is your ***** pump for the next higher office election,and your efforts to be the "big man".
I also believe the City Diet is a diversionary tactic.
Essentially I just don't trust you.

[Kerry]

That was pure class gmwise, pure class. I like the way you threw in ***** pump. Sometime that is a hard phrase to work into a conversation, but I gotta say, you pulled it off. One other thing, you got the tense wrong on your "lending the way to bleed us dry" phrase. Since the tax has been in place since 1993 you should have bled dry a long time ago. Thus, try using " led the way to bleed us dry".

[gmwise]

I believe his honor and others know the meaning of the letter.

[betts]

All I'm saying is, just because "lots of other cities" finance their teams with a tax on everyone, doesn't mean we have to.

I am someone who would actually go to an NBA game. I went to a few Hornets games. I had a great time. I hope, hope, hope that the Sonics (or whoever) are able to call OKC home.

I understand the Ford Center is a city-owned building and that NBA upgrades are needed. I am just so against wealthy businessmen passing the buck onto us. If they really are the philanthropists we think they are and have such civic pride because OKC is "major league" now, then why don't they provide the financing.

And as I said earlier, why don't we ask the biggest beneficiaries of an NBA move to chip in? MidFirst, Chesapeake, Devon, BOk, OGE, Mathis Bros., The Oklahoman, Hilton Skirvin, Renaissance, Marriott, Bricktown Restaurant Owners...

Even if we DO get an NBA team, everybody who paid the taxes to get the upgrades will still have to buy a ticket to get in!

And the comments here that imply the NBA is not a profitable business, and that owners are supporting NBA out of sheer love for the game is nostalgic, but ridiculous. If the NBA isn't a profitable, then that's even one more reason that public money shouldn't be thrown at an upgrade expressly for the NBA.

As I've told everyone who is planning on voting "no" for rational reasons. I understand your point, but you have to realize you are voting "no NBA". If you are fine with that, then by all means vote "no". I have yet to see one piece of data that makes me think that Oklahoma City will get a team if we don't pass this tax proposal. No matter who should or shouldn't pay for it, this is the piece of legislation the NBA Board of Governors will see in April. If we don't pass it, then they will not vote in favor of moving the Sonics. That I believe, and have never been given reason to doubt.

I also happen to believe that even wealthy people might have their limits where philanthropy is concerned, and had I spent $400 million on a team and the citizens of the city I was hoping to move the team to were arguing about whether they should spend a few pennies a day on an arena they own would strike me as a bad place to bring a team. Yesterday I donated 11 cents to MAPS for Kids. I was happy to do it. And I've already vowed I will not shop outside of Oklahoma City for the 15 months the tax for the Ford Center is in place, because I believe in it too.

[Luke]

If the board of governors knew that there was an active plan b in the works fully funding the upgrades through private funds, why would they throw OKC out the door? We were VERY successful with the hornets.

[flintysooner]

If I were the owner of the team I'd go for Las Vegas or Kansas City. I am kind of dubious about Oklahoma City really supporting the Sonics long term. I have been surprised by the rather stringent opposition to the question.

If I could vote, and I can't, on the proposition though I would vote yes. I really don't see any downside for the City of Oklahoma City, the residents, or the shoppers. I don't see any downside even if an NBA team doesn't come.

I am pretty surprised by the jealousy and anger towards the owners by so many who live here.

[Doug Loudenback]

If the board of governors knew that there was an active plan b in the works fully funding the upgrades through private funds, why would they throw OKC out the door? We were VERY successful with the hornets.

Luke, you didn't respond to my questions ... not that you had to! But, out of curiosity,

1) Would or did you vote for the public financing of the original Bricktown Ballpark and what became the Ford Center?

2) Would or did you vote for the public financing of the arena in the 6 month extension of the tax when funds came up short to do the arena?

3) Were the NBA not involved in the present mix, and we had no expectation of getting an NBA team at all, would you be for or against the March 4 tax if the Practice Facility were not included in what would be financed?

[betts]

If the board of governors knew that there was an active plan b in the works fully funding the upgrades through private funds, why would they throw OKC out the door? We were VERY successful with the hornets.

But there's not. Who's funding plan b? You might hope somebody out there would be willing to give that money away, but if the private citizens aren't willing to give up a few pennies a day, would you give away millions?

We were moderately successful with the Hornets. We did not sell out the arena every night like Detroit does. We were ranked about tenth for attendance the first year (I'm too lazy to check it carefully), and lower the second, with a much lower gate the second year. We did a very nice job for two years with the Hornets. But not amazingly well. Very successful would have been every night sellouts.

So the Board of Governors will have to choose between leaving the Sonics in a city that has supported it for 40 years, that has the 12th largest television market and a population three times that of Oklahoma City but won't build a new arena for $450 million and moving the team to Oklahoma City, a city that supported a team fairly well for two years, has the 45th largest television market and a population one third the size of Seattle and that won't renovate an $89 million dollar arena. Which would you choose?

[OSUFan]

Guys some people just don't get it. You can rationalize it all you want but if this vote does not pass there will be NO NBA in this city. Period. The NBA is not going to vote yes to relocate a team here days fter we vote down to renovate the Ford Center. It just isn't going to happen. The last two relocations have gone bad.

The NBA is not sure about OKC. The NBA makes a lot of money of TV. You aren't going to make a lot of money off TV in the second or third smallest market in the league. They want to see if the OKC can support this thing long term. If we vote this down it sends a clear message.

I will never use the Civic Center. It is not my kind of thing but it adds to the diversity of this city so i'm all for it.

The same people who are against this were against Maps and will be against Maps III. They can't tell you what they are for but they can tell you what they are against.

[jbrown84]

All I'm saying is, just because "lots of other cities" finance their teams with a tax on everyone, doesn't mean we have to.

Yes it does. We are not in a position to be in that minority. We are a potential new NBA city, and would be in the bottom 2 or 3 in market size. All the instances mentioned in the article you quoted were NEW FACILITIES for ESTABLISHED TEAMS.

The Ford Center is already owned by the city. If Dillards looks at Crossroads Mall and says hey, this place needs some improvements, and everyone seems to agree, does Dillards pay for the whole mall's renovations because they are the biggest tenant. NO, of course not.

OKC has to show that it will support the NBA, or they won't let a team come here. The improvement will help the city in intangible ways, as well as make the Ford Center a better place for fans of the NBA, the Rolling Stones, the Blazers, the Yard Dawgs, Billy Graham, and anything else that happens there.

[jbrown84]

Open Letter to Mayor Cornett:
You wanted a light railed system, which once again is not good stewardship, and was turned down by public opinion.

You decided to survey the City, and now that you didn't like the results, you changed the order in which to do things in this effort to be remembered for your next "higher office drive."

Ummm, pretty sure light rail was at the top of the list of what people wanted, buddy. He didn't change any order. He had to rush the Ford Center improvements because of the upcoming BOG vote. Simple as that.

[metro]

You are right, but many of those people, including Green, have proven that their interests lie elsewhere. What we really have here is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. If we don't take it now, it may never happen again. Just because others can afford it doesn't mean they will step up in this manner and be willing to take the same risk, as well as the public scrutiny.

There's no pro basketball fairly floating about saying "Oh, let's put a team in OKC, and even if the people vote down the tax initiative, we'll put it there anyway." Nope. This is our once-and-only shot. Our Hail Mary from Half Court!!! There's a saying that luck happens when preparedness meets opportunity. Our opportunity is here. We just need to prepare.

FritterGirl, you must not have read my posts! I am highly in favor of passing this tax extension! I totally see the big picture and the value, I was just correcting someone else in stating that the Pro Basketball Club are the 8 wealthiest people in OKC, when clearly some of them are not, however I still understood what that guy was trying to say. That was my point.

[metro]

Open Letter to Mayor Cornett:
I am Voting NO on March 4, and I'm sadden to know the Council is lending the way to bleed us dry for these few.
I'm not to surprised by your actions.
I remember when you decided to run for a higher office and got your backside kicked.
I also remember the exit polls, when the voters were asked why they voted that way.
Do you?
"Because he {You} haven't done anything for the City."
You wanted a light railed system, which once again is not good stewardship, and was turned down by public opinion.
We both know the MAPS is not your vision, your claim to fame.
You decided to survey the City, and now that you didn't like the results, you changed the order in which to do things in this effort to be remembered for your next "higher office drive."
The bringing a NBA and delivery a FORD CENTER VOTE YES victory is your ***** pump for the next higher office election,and your efforts to be the "big man".
I also believe the City Diet is a diversionary tactic.
Essentially I just don't trust you.

You may want to do a grammar and spelling check before you send this to the Mayor.

[CuatrodeMayo]

I hope you already sent it.

[Luke]

Luke, you didn't respond to my questions ... not that you had to! But, out of curiosity,

1) Would or did you vote for the public financing of the original Bricktown Ballpark and what became the Ford Center?

2) Would or did you vote for the public financing of the arena in the 6 month extension of the tax when funds came up short to do the arena?

3) Were the NBA not involved in the present mix, and we had no expectation of getting an NBA team at all, would you be for or against the March 4 tax if the Practice Facility were not included in what would be financed?

I planned to respond.

1) I didn't vote. I think this was when the original MAPS was passed, right? And that was in 1995, right? I didn't live in OKC and I was only 15.

2) I'm not even sure when that was, so no I didn't vote then either.

3) I would vote no.

To me it's totally a principle. I am a HUGE fan of OKC. I want the absolute best. I want the Olympics here in 2024, a NFL team an NBA team, an MLS team. I want it all!

The role of the government, however, is where I disagree with some of you. I don't believe it is the role of the local government to subsidize business ventures despite the payoff it would reap for the City. I believe if the private sector believes OKC is a strong enough market for X, Y, or Z, then they should be willing to front the capital to do it.

[mheaton76]

Just my two cents ... but I think people should vote, YES...the reasons to do so are way more compelling than the reasons not to as outlined by Doug and others.
Cheers. :-)



www.unitedstatesofmichael.com

[betts]

To me it's totally a principle. I am a HUGE fan of OKC. I want the absolute best. I want the Olympics here in 2024, a NFL team an NBA team, an MLS team. I want it all!

The role of the government, however, is where I disagree with some of you. I don't believe it is the role of the local government to subsidize business ventures despite the payoff it would reap for the City. I believe if the private sector believes OKC is a strong enough market for X, Y, or Z, then they should be willing to front the capital to do it.

You'll be waiting a long time for any of the above teams if that's the way you feel. If we were New York City, it might be different. But, no one is dying to put a team here. We've got to attract one, and there's not a team in the world that feels attracted to a city that expects the team to do all the contributing, unless they're looking at a top ten tv market, a population of 10 million, or a truly unique geographical location. We have none of those.

Personally, I don't want to wait forever. And having the Hornets here gave me a taste of what it could be like in Oklahoma City if we had a professional team. I'll give about 50 cents to MAPS for Kids today (taking the fam out to dinner and buying a few groceries), and I'm happy to do it. I'd be equally happy to give it to the city to improve our arena and hopefully bring an NBA team here.

[Luke]

But, no one is dying to put a team here.

Then maybe that's a hint.

We've got to attract one, and there's not a team in the world that feels attracted to a city that expects the team to do all the contributing...

Well, then why don't we all pay a tax to get Dave and Busters, a Rainforest Cafe, a Barnes & Noble and whatever else a majority of people who care to vote for want?

Where is the line drawn?

In a free market, an NBA team would WANT to come here because the demand is there.

Personally, I don't want to wait forever. And having the Hornets here gave me a taste of what it could be like in Oklahoma City if we had a professional team.

Agreed.

[Kerry]

Well, then why don't we all pay a tax to get Dave and Busters, a Rainforest Cafe, a Barnes & Noble and whatever else a majority of people who care to vote for want?

Sometimes cities do. Hey, we are on the same page when it comes to taxes. I hate paying them as much as anyone (although I do prefer sales taxes to income taxes). However, there are certain functions that each level of government plays in the big picture. For local government that role hinges around things like public safety, local transit, and something we call quality of life. I think funding an arena falls into the quality of life category and at what I consider to be a reasonable price. Now granted I probably won't have to pay any of these taxes since I don't live in OKC so take my opinion for what it is worth.

[Midtowner]

In a free market, an NBA team would WANT to come here because the demand is there.

It is a free market.

Other cities are offering huge incentives to teams. Practice facilities and serviceable arenas are in most NBA city-team contracts these days.

In a free market, teams will gravitate towards whoever is offering the best profit -- in this case, the cities paying the subsidies will win. The March 4th vote will determine we want to be part of the NBA or whether the team will go to another city which offers substantially similar (or better) benefits than what we're voting for on March 4.

[Luke]

It is a free market.

Other cities are offering huge incentives to teams. Practice facilities and serviceable arenas are in most NBA city-team contracts these days.

In a free market, teams will gravitate towards whoever is offering the best profit -- in this case, the cities paying the subsidies will win.

I agree with that completely.

Obviously, if I'm the business owners and the city is wanting to pay for things for my team, I'm not going to stop them!

I just think it's a wrong headed approach on the city's side to subsidize arena upgrades at the expense of those who will still have to pay to get in.

At least libraries and public schools are free.

How about the Bricktown restaurants, downtown bars, downtown hotels and businesses who would reap the benefits of an NBA team pony up the dough?

[Kerry]

I just think it's a wrong headed approach on the city's side to subsidize arena upgrades at the expense of those who will still have to pay to get in.

I can't speak for the Ford Center because I have never been there, but at Tropicana Field in St Pete, St Pete Times Forum in Tampa, and All-Tel Stadium in Jax you can go to the arena to eat at the sports bars any time the building is open, except for game days of course. However, if you want to see the team play then yes you have to buy a ticket. The team has exclusive use of the venue on game day.

Can you eat at the York Icehouse on non-game days without having to pay to enter the building?

[andy157]

I hope you already sent it.

That was an un-necessary personal attack if I have ever seen one.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Apples and oranges. Nice try though.