Nepotism

[FritterGirl]

ONE MORE BRILLIANT THOUGHT. Fasten Your Seat Belts.

Since WHEN did the frequency of OR propenstiy for something become the standard by which we measure right or wrong? "It happens all the time." THIS IS YOUR ARGUMENT?

Brilliant ethics, I tell you. Just brilliant.

One could just as easily question the ethics of someone who publicly makes allegations against an entity and certain individuals within that entity without providing facts to substantiate said allegations.

And you still haven't answered any of our questions to you.

Now who's talking ethics?

[Kerry]

FOIAOKC08 - Like I said, if you come across real corruption then let us know. However, from what I have seen so far this would only be considered investigative research for the gossip page. Usually, when people investigate something it is because a wrong has already been committed and the investigation is intended to uncover the truth. You seem to be going about this whole thing backwards.

You started with a list of 4,000 city employees and cross referenced them in a phone book with 600,000 listings to see if phone numbers match. Then, when you find 2 people with the same phone number you identify this as possible nepotism. Then you come on a public message board with hypothetical discrimination scenarios to back up your circumstantial nepotism claims. What do you plan to do after you compile your list of suspects? Ask for the resumes of everyone that applied for a city position but didn’t get a job and cross-reference them with applicants that did get a city job and then triangulate with job descriptions?

[bornhere]

It might be worth mentioning that strictly speaking, nepotism is "the practice among those with power or influence of favoring relatives or friends, especially by giving them jobs."

Which means that if two people who work for the city (or anywhere else) get married, it's not nepotism. If someone works in the Fire Department and they have a sister, brother, spouse, whatever, working in the Planning Department, it's nepotism only if one somehow used influence to help the other get the job. And since it's cross-department, it still doesn't meet the city's standard for nepotism.

FOIAOKC08, I think if you want to pursue this, you have to have more than what you say you have. You not only have to have the relationship, you have to have some provable example of how the relationship misdirected or redirected city procedure or policy.

As I've said before, I think the city's current nepotism policy opens the door to problems, but I can't say I know of one that has actually happened. If you hire some department head's offspring as an intern, and he does a great job, that's not a problem. If he's a goofoff, and he hangs onto his job not because of his parent but because he simply knows how to work the bureaucracy and the system to protect himself, that's a problem, but it's still not nepotism.

[foiaokc08]

Yes - I have more than I am giving up.

Yes, I know about specific examples of corruption. Not only in regard to nepotism, but awarding of contracts.

No, I am not cross referencing 4,000 people with the phone book. I said, "public records." Why not reserve your judgement until the full report is released? Unless you work for the City are are afraid...

Regarding ethics - I have proposed that nepotism in City government leads to problems. I have not named names or violated any ethical standard of conduct, particularly as it relates to journalism or citizen journalism. I have only revealed loosely knitted examples to demonstrate an issue.

This has obviously hit much closer to home on this talk board than I ever imagined it would. Do you all work for the City???

[Kerry]

Yes - I have more than I am giving up.

Yes, I know about specific examples of corruption. Not only in regard to nepotism, but awarding of contracts.

I don't believe you.

[jbrown84]

This has obviously hit much closer to home on this talk board than I ever imagined it would. Do you all work for the City???

Perhaps you would have been greeted with more support if you had

(1) shown your supposed "evidence" of corruption, but you're still holding out

(2) not arrived by saying that you are voting against the completely unrelated Ford Center improvements because of alleged nepotism

[FritterGirl]

Perhaps you would have been greeted with more support if you had

(1) shown your supposed "evidence" of corruption, but you're still holding out

(2) not arrived by saying that you are voting against the completely unrelated Ford Center improvements because of alleged nepotism

(3) answered the very specific questions we asked you.

[bandnerd]

If you have all this information, then do something about it, don't just go telling us anonymously on a message board that you're so awesome and better because you can prove nepotism. Whoo hoo. Actions speak louder than words.

[Midtowner]

Yes - I have more than I am giving up.

Why? Oh.. did you hear? Mick Cornett hired his son into the Oklahoma City death squad. Well of course you do. You know all about the nepotism in OKC. Surely you'll be targeted if they find out that you're the man who knows too much.

Yes, I know about specific examples of corruption. Not only in regard to nepotism, but awarding of contracts.

That stuff is pretty much common knowledge. Especially here. Especially when we start to talk about public trusts, or the individuals who knew to buy land along the new I-40 corridor well before the current route was ever really announced.

No, I am not cross referencing 4,000 people with the phone book. I said, "public records." Why not reserve your judgement until the full report is released? Unless you work for the City are are afraid...

Release your "report" then. FOIA, we get it. Freedom of Information Act.. how very clever.

Regarding ethics - I have proposed that nepotism in City government leads to problems. I have not named names or violated any ethical standard of conduct, particularly as it relates to journalism or citizen journalism. I have only revealed loosely knitted examples to demonstrate an issue.

Loosely knitted you say? I think more like highly speculative and baseless.

This has obviously hit much closer to home on this talk board than I ever imagined it would. Do you all work for the City???

Nope. We just don't take too kindly to people who make completely illogical statements and have bizarre delusions of grandeur. Except for me of course.

[Kerry]

Nope. We just don't take too kindly to people who make completely illogical statements and have bizarre delusions of grandeur. Except for me of course.

I agree Midtowner. I like your illogical statements and bizzare delusions also. It makes me feel more normal.

[Midtowner]

I agree Midtowner. I like your illogical statements and bizzare delusions also. It makes me feel more normal.

I do what I can.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

I'm Bill Brasky.

[OKCTalker]

[ ] A. Put up
[ ] B. Shut up

[foiaokc08]

You're right KER RY. I'm a great big liar. I just initiated this conversation to waste my time and everyone else's. I am all about being CLEVER. And the media isn't currently poking around with an inquiry into Councilpersons travel.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

I thought this was about nepotism...Now it's about travel?

I should work on my reading comprehension.

[Kerry]

I don't know what your motivation is - but until I see some kind of proof I don't believe you.

OGTS - I think this is about nepotravelism.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

OGTS - I think this is about nepotravelism.

Ah...Going to see family.

Well why didn't you say so? NOW I get why you're so upset. My inlaws suck too.

[jbrown84]

Ah...Going to see family.

[Midtowner]

I'm guessing he's suggesting that the police chief has made some unlawful purchases or abused his travel expense account and that the city auditor hasn't taken any action.

That'd be my guess.

Really though, some proof would be nice. My guess is that he has no proof. He may have read somewhere that libel is a bad thing.

FOIA, so do you actually have any proof of this? If you do, why are you sitting on it?

[foiaokc08]

I refuse to make this personal. I meandered here for substantive dialogue about nepotism and abuse of power. Proof of these things are the only thing you ask for and the only thing that will persuade public opinion on this board. Clearly, you have no real opinion about nepotism and abuse of power beyond "So what, it happens." In case you hadn't noticed, I'm not going to use a message board to release a report. I never intended to dangle information in front of anyone. I tried to give examples to initiate real conversation, but only ended up defending myself. What a waste of time. Are you the City's idiot sons or something? (OK - had to get that personal wack in.)

So, you think its FUNNY that councilpersons break City policies regarding travel? That's funny to you? Don't let me split your sides with laughter.

It has been said, the truth passes through three stages. The first phase, it goes unnoticed or is ignored. The second phase, it is ridiculed or vehemently denied. The third phase (we're a long way from this), the truth about the issue is recognized as self-evident.

[Kerry]

Are you the City's idiot sons or something?

Why are you letting the women on this site off the hook? They are just as capable of being idiots as the men are.

Look, it is this simple. Unless you have some real evidence I am just not that interested in talking about hypotheticals based on phone numbers and imaginary applicants for imaginary jobs. Now, if you talk real applicants for imaginary jobs then you might have something of interest.

Out of curosity, did Steve Lackmeyer's article about conspiracy crack-pots on OKC Talk being dissatisfied with Urban Renewal secrecy bring you to this site? Just wondering how you found this site? No disrespect intended.

[FritterGirl]

I meandered here for substantive dialogue about nepotism and abuse of power. Proof of these things are the only thing you ask for and the only thing that will persuade public opinion on this board. Clearly, you have no real opinion about nepotism and abuse of power beyond "So what, it happens."

But you have failed to show to us where nepotism has led to corruption. You keep naming names of people who happen to work for the same organization - in this case the city - and happen to be married.

It's hard to open up meaningful dialog on innuendo.

I tried to give examples to initiate real conversation, but only ended up defending myself.

Yes, you did. And several of us asked you very specific and pointed questions that could have opened up said dialog. You refused to answer them - and insisted on continuing to throw out innuendo and veiled "just you wait" types of arguments that led nowhere.

[foiaokc08]

That's funny - about Urban Renewal and crackpots. I mildly followed that thread. I found some of it interesting. After reading it, I did try to find out some information on UR. Some points by the so called crackpots were valid, but I didn't pursue it. What I know about UR I could fit in a thimble. What is most prevalent in my mind is that a former director left to go raise, ummmm, horses. I found it ironic that someone with URBAN in their job title was moving to the COUNTRY. No offense intended. Just an amusing irony. I'm sure Ms. Douglas did a fine job. As does Mr. Lackmeyer. I think he is rather fantastic. I hope my endorsement doesn't cost him any friends.

Regarding the VERY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS I need to be mindful of laws that extend to the Internet. Enough said.

Gee whis. I've nearly forgot what brought me here. Oh yea: NEPOTISM.

I don't recall how I found OKC Talk. No clue. I've been following the site for over a year.

I will try to think up a new subject to annoy everyone with.

[bandnerd]

It took you a whole year to decide to post about just one subject?

WOW.

[Kerry]

I like Steve also and I find it a little strange that when you Google Urban Renewal and Oklahoma City all you get are newpaper articles. No web site, no list of memebers, no project information, just nothing. But I digress. Since this was your first subject let me say welcome to OKCTalk.