Nepotism

[FritterGirl]

And, yes, the policy cited by others is correct, and yet, in one department I have discovered a manager in an elite field of study who is engaged to a subordinate IN HIS DEPARTMENT. Rich.

Unless one is a direct supervisor to the other, it is NOT against city policy.

Before he retired, my dad had his own medium-sized business. Mom did all of the books. I worked in my dad's office during the summers. What's the big deal? In a family-owned business, what's wrong with keeping it "in the family?"

I know two people who work for the city, who happen to be married, and who work in the same department. Neither is a supervisor for the other. They met ON THE JOB, fell in love and got married. Is this such an odd occurrence? While you're wasting your time on this endeavor, why not go to devon, Chesapeake, American Fidelity or any other numerous large organizations in this city and check their company phone books. My guess is you'll find just as many married / engaged / familial relationships in those organizations.

[Kerry]

In the company I work for the Chief Operating Officer (COO) is married to the VP of Finance. Oh wait, I got that wrong. What I meant to say is in my family I am married to my wife. I go to work and make money and she pays the bills and does the shopping. I can't spend a dime without being audited. I guess it is nepotism, but it seems to work well for us. Now if I just get those 2 kids down in the mail room to pull their weight I would be set.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

In the company I work for the Chief Operating Officer (COO) is married to the VP of Finance. Oh wait, I got that wrong. What I meant to say is in my family I am married to my wife. I go to work and make money and she pays the bills and does the shopping. I can't spend a dime without being audited. I guess it is nepotism, but it seems to work well for us. Now if I just get those 2 kids down in the mail room to pull their weight I would be set.

Stock options in the family car will motivate them.

[Kerry]

They aren't that old yet. I though bikes would improve mailroom moral but it just made them more competitive. So I enrolled them in the same karate class. Should be fun come annual merit/bonus time.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

They aren't that old yet. I though bikes would improve mailroom moral but it just made them more competitive. So I enrolled them in the same karate class. Should be fun come annual merit/bonus time.

Karate might raise your overhead with regards to furniture allocations and medical expenses if not properly supervised. It could also create tension in the workplace when sombody's chi gets screwed up and they decide to go all Bruce Lee on fellow mailfolk. You might try a mandatory employee course in medatative Yoga.

That, or hang a sign on the door that says "The beatings and random executions will continue until morale improves".

[Midtowner]

Stock options in the family car will motivate them.

Studies say that recognition is the #1 employee motivator.

Perhaps an annual awards banquet at Chuck E. Cheese?

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Good idea. Perhaps with a "Transformers" theme. It will segue nicely into the upcoming changes in the mailroom regarding chores.

[Karried]

lol, you guys are cracking me up.

[foiaokc08]

No personal witch hunt. I'm taking my leads from what has been done in other cities. It's regrettable that you (vendetta man) have made it so personal. I have a few friends who work for the City, as well as other municipalities - MWC, Edmond. They are the ones that have complained about this to ME. They don't even know I pause long enough to take notes.

Why does entering the public discourse about nepotism invite such ire? We are so fortunate to have our freedoms and to hold the people who spend our tax dollars to the highest standards of conduct. Do we only talk about ethics because it is fashionable? Why is shining the light on this issue bothering you so much? Maybe this just hits too close to home for you.

And, for the record, I think comments like "Did Daddy Not Hire You" are really immature. Let's not make it personal and contniue the dialogue. I've been on OKC TALK a long, long time. I know am familiar with all the posters. This is a kind of club, as online communities become. I have decided to make my voice heard. It is ashame that you are so easily annoyed and scared by another man's opinion. Let's not get mean. As far as my "daddy" he might as well have been a mineworker. Ahh. An industry ripe with nepotism. But, nobody is complaining about that, huh?

Indulge me and allow me to make it personal on my end: maybe you should go live in Asia. I lived there for a few years in the late 80s. If I talked about nepotism in Shanghai, I'd be shot. I hear the weather is beautiful this time of year.

[Kerry]

FOIAOKC2008 - I guess I would be more interested in this subject if you were uncovering some kind of wrong doing but you seem to be more interested in who is sleeping with who rather than uncovering some kind of wide spread fraud. So what if person A is married/engaged/dating person B. Are they using that relationship to defraud the city? If so you have a point, but otherwise it just seems creepy that you care so much. And so what that 2 employees are sharing interns. Heck, my kids love to come to my office and see what I do. Maybe someday I will teach them how to do what I do for a living and they can work with me. There are worse things you can do as human than help your children.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

FOIAOKC2008 - I guess I would be more interested in this subject if you were uncovering some kind of wrong doing but you seem to be more intereseted in who is sleeping with who rather than uncovering some kind of wide spread fraud. So what if person A is married/engaged/dating person B. Are they using that relationship to defraud the city? If so you have a point, but otherwise it just seems creepy that you care so much. And so what they 2 employees are sharing interens. Heck, my kids love to come to my office and see what I do. Maybe someday I will teach them how to do what I do for a living and they can come work with me. There are worse things you can do as human than help your children.

Maybe I read that wrong...But...Sharing interns?

I want to work there.

[foiaokc08]

Creepy that I care so much? Good grief. I can't dignify that with a response. You are attacking me personally because I am researching nepotism in the City of Oklahoma City. It's kind of creepy that you want me to care so little.

What do you think of this? Two city employees apply for the same job. One is black woman with a college degree. One is white - a female - with no degree. Both make it through the first round of interviews. They move on to interview with the department head. But, the white woman has an edge on the black woman. The white woman’s daughter is in an extracurricular activity with the daughter of a very prominent city official. The white woman got the job. This isn’t nepotism, but favoritism galvanized by rich, personal relationships. (Also known as a bunch of hooey or crap.) I understand, this thread makes people uncomfortable, but I’m not going to stop reporting this stuff. It’s just facts. I’ll leave the commentating up to Ed Kelley. And, if you think it's creepy, then you have a right to your opinion, but to try to discredit me or malign me because you don't agree with what I say, is just unsophisticated. Why don't you just ask me if I pick my boogers?

[flintysooner]

foiaokc08 is it your position that if one member of a family works for the City then no other members of the same family should be able to work for the City in any other capacity?

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Everybody picks their boogers.

It's more a question of when.
For instance, I only do it while sitting in traffic.

[Karried]

Why don't you just ask me if I pick my boogers?

Wrong subject matter for OhGawdtheSmell...He just might ask you! Not only does he pick his boogers, but flings them out the sunroof at bad drivers... lol

Honestly, none of the above is a personal attack.

Obviously, this is a matter that is important to you.

I think it would be interesting to see some exact, concrete examples of these incidents resulting from nepotism.

Some of the perceived wrongdoings haven't come to pass yet but you assume they will because of the relationships at hand.

I think everyone is saying that this happens in every working environment.

Unless you have proof that wrongdoing is occuring, at this point it's all speculation.

How about some examples of what you know of personally?

[Karried]

See, he beat me to the booger question! We were posting at the same time!

[CuatrodeMayo]

Creepy that I care so much? Good grief. I can't dignify that with a response. You are attacking me personally because I am researching nepotism in the City of Oklahoma City. It's kind of creepy that you want me to care so little.

What do you think of this? Two city employees apply for the same job. One is black woman with a college degree. One is white - a female - with no degree. Both make it through the first round of interviews. They move on to interview with the department head. But, the white woman has an edge on the black woman. The white woman’s daughter is in an extracurricular activity with the daughter of a very prominent city official. The white woman got the job. This isn’t nepotism, but favoritism galvanized by rich, personal relationships. (Also known as a bunch of hooey or crap.) I understand, this thread makes people uncomfortable, but I’m not going to stop reporting this stuff. It’s just facts. I’ll leave the commentating up to Ed Kelley. And, if you think it's creepy, then you have a right to your opinion, but to try to discredit me or malign me because you don't agree with what I say, is just unsophisticated. Why don't you just ask me if I pick my boogers?

A college degree is not an automatic edge in job hunting. Skills and experience manytimes carry much more weight.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

See, he beat me to the booger question! We were posting at the same time!

I'm very quick on the draw with boogers.

I'll stop now.


foia...I work for the government (fed side though), and it exists there. Every place I've ever worked (including military) has had some sort of nepotism going on. What are you going to do if/when you find it? Tell somebody to get a divorce? Demand that they be fired? What if they're doing a good job?

[Midtowner]

Creepy that I care so much? Good grief. I can't dignify that with a response. You are attacking me personally because I am researching nepotism in the City of Oklahoma City. It's kind of creepy that you want me to care so little.

What do you think of this? Two city employees apply for the same job. One is black woman with a college degree. One is white - a female - with no degree. Both make it through the first round of interviews. They move on to interview with the department head. But, the white woman has an edge on the black woman. The white woman’s daughter is in an extracurricular activity with the daughter of a very prominent city official. The white woman got the job. This isn’t nepotism, but favoritism galvanized by rich, personal relationships. (Also known as a bunch of hooey or crap.) I understand, this thread makes people uncomfortable, but I’m not going to stop reporting this stuff. It’s just facts. I’ll leave the commentating up to Ed Kelley. And, if you think it's creepy, then you have a right to your opinion, but to try to discredit me or malign me because you don't agree with what I say, is just unsophisticated. Why don't you just ask me if I pick my boogers?

Do you have copies of each applicant's resumé? Did the individual who didn't get hired only have her associates? (that degree is worth about as much as a HS diploma). You don't know the whole story. Don't pretend that you do.

It's true -- it's not always what you know but who you know that gets you a job. That's never been a secret.

Really though -- what's wrong with that? When you're an employer and you have two potential employees before you. One, you know through a friend. That friend tells you that this employee is a good person, that she's done having kid, that she has not crazy drama in her personal life, etc. The other employee is a 100% unknown factor. Are you going to trust the interview (where you can't even ask the kids question) to predict which employee will be the right choice?

Most of us seem pretty happy with that situation. I am in my current job as a direct result of nepotism. If I worked in a state agency, I'd be in violation of the law. Does that mean I'm bad at my job? Nope. In fact, I'm vastly overqualified.

FOIA, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion, but unless you can make the argument that because of these sorts of hires, performance has suffered, your opinion is meaningless. If there has been any actual lawbreaking, I urge you to contact the Attorney General for the State of Oklahoma.

[FritterGirl]

What do you think of this? Two city employees apply for the same job. One is black woman with a college degree. One is white - a female - with no degree. Both make it through the first round of interviews. They move on to interview with the department head. But, the white woman has an edge on the black woman. The white woman’s daughter is in an extracurricular activity with the daughter of a very prominent city official. The white woman got the job. This isn’t nepotism, but favoritism galvanized by rich, personal relationships. (Also known as a bunch of hooey or crap.) I understand, this thread makes people uncomfortable, but I’m not going to stop reporting this stuff. It’s just facts. I’ll leave the commentating up to Ed Kelley.

What do you think of this? Two people apply for the same job at XYZ Corporation. One is black woman with a college degree. One is white - a female - with no degree. Both make it through the first round of interviews. They move on to interview with the department head. But, the white woman has an edge on the black woman. The white woman’s daughter/son/husband/other random family member is in an extracurricular activity/goes to church with/was in school with/was in the same fraternity/sorority as the daughter/son/husband/other random family member of a the Company’s CEO/COO/CFO/Grand Poobah. The white woman got the job. This isn’t nepotism, but favoritism galvanized by rich, personal relationships. (Also known as networking.)

Sorry, FOIA, this type of thing goes on every day in every city and in just about every company out there. It has been going on for centuries. And is certainly NOT limited to government. You think non-profit organizations and universities get funded out of the goodness of peoples’ hearts? In some instances, yes. More often, it is because these organizations cultivate relationships with the people they want to solicit funds from.

If anything, I would venture a guess that most governments have to be MORE careful and OPEN about their hiring practices than private corporations.

You tell us a person got slighted but you did not tell us the whole of the story.

If Person A walks into my widget factory with a college degree (let’s say History), does that make him/her more qualified to take on the job as Widget Production Supervisor than Person B who has five years experience working in widgets, but may not know squat about Walt Whitman or WWII? Did the job in question even require a college degree?

You’re very quick with your allegations and accusations, but fail to see – or at least present to us – the whole of the story.

You accuse us of making this personal. You sir/madam made it personal when you chose to rant on here about your grievances that smack of bitterness against the city, as if you personally have been slighted by them. You then used those base allegations to say why you are voting “no” for a community initiative that has little or nothing to do with the subject over which you are so bitter. People were just pointing out the irrationality in your argument.

By the way, just to remind you, Ed Kelly works for an organization that is run by a family. Until just a few years ago, you could not read the masthead of the paper without seeing at least one person with the last name of Gaylord. It’s not an accusation, but a fact.

Networking with people you know to get jobs is really kind of part of the fabric of our society throughout the US.

[bandnerd]

I work in an industry that is ripe with nepotism, as well: EDUCATION. I can name several husband-wife band directing duos in the area. Yeah, it's a little unfair...but whatever, I have a job, and I'm not going to nitpick others.

I might be immature, but at least I'm funny. HA.

I really don't even see the point in all of this...I seriously think you have way too much time on your hands.

[jbrown84]

(Also known as networking.)

Haha. Exactly.

I have no problem with you seeking to expose corruption, FOIA, but so far you've done nothing but point out that in life, it's often more about who you know than what you know. There's nothing illegal about it, and unethical is borderline. If someone is vastly underqualified compared to other applicants, maybe, but usually networking helps out when you're looking at equally qualified candidates.

Show me proof of real corruption, and then I'll listen.

[Kerry]

I once worked for a company in Tampa that had an unqualified VP of Training and Events Management. She went from Secretary to VP in 5 years. I had a huge disagreement with her over some software decisions and my manager, VP of HR, told me that she was put into her position by the CEO so I would just have to live with it. I told her I didn't have to live with the bad decisions - the CEO had to live with bad decisions.

The bottom line is, if you hire bad people (no matter what the reason) then you are the one that is being affected and will have to explain or live with poor performance. The Board of Directors eventually fired the CEO and the VP of Training and Events for poor performance.

[foiaokc08]

Yeah, I pick my boogers, too.

This is getting kind of old.

Why doth one need be bitter (insert Mr. Darcey accent) to careth about nepotism?

Why doth thou thinketh I am wastingeth my time caringeth as I ameth?

I am not quite ready to state my full, unabridged opinion yet. I am still researching. You know, Woodward and Bernstein. (I know - self-indulgent comment. At least I'm not an exhibitionistic, snarky BLOGGER.)

[foiaokc08]

ONE MORE BRILLIANT THOUGHT. Fasten Your Seat Belts.

Since WHEN did the frequency of OR propenstiy for something become the standard by which we measure right or wrong? "It happens all the time." THIS IS YOUR ARGUMENT?

Brilliant ethics, I tell you. Just brilliant.