Perle Mesta in the Skirvin Hotel

[OKCRealtor]

Agree with everything said on the original Vast opening. It couldn’t have been all Chef Black though. They brought in people from around the country to help open this & failed spectacularly. Mario the original GM I believe he was from Vegas told me this would be the best restaurant West of the Mississippi & Michelin stars would be easily attainable. The Egos & hubris involved in that deal was off the charts.

[TheTravellers]

Agree with everything said on the original Vast opening. It couldn’t have been all Chef Black though. They brought in people from around the country to help open this & failed spectacularly. Mario the original GM I believe he was from Vegas told me this would be the best restaurant West of the Mississippi & Michelin stars would be easily attainable. The Egos & hubris involved in that deal was off the charts.

As well as stupidity/lying (either intentionally or not) - Michelin doesn't do OKC.

[Rover]

As well as stupidity/lying (either intentionally or not) - Michelin doesn't do OKC.

There is nothing in Michelin’s criteria regarding location. It’s about the restaurant and their product. However, there is no Michelin chapter her, in Texas and in many other states.

[TheTravellers]

There is nothing in Michelin’s criteria regarding location. It’s about the restaurant and their product.

Maybe not officially, but do you *really* think OKC will have a Michelin-starred restaurant in the foreseeable future?

[Rover]

Maybe not officially, but do you *really* think OKC will have a Michelin-starred restaurant in the foreseeable future?

No. But most other states won’t either.

[Mballard85]

Michelin just awarded their first stars to Colorado this year, they are growing, but it's very very slowly. The only restaurants in OKC that would likely stand a chance would be Nonesuch or Grey Sweater, they fit the style that Michelin typically goes for. It's not written in stone, but tasting menu's with a lot of ingenuity are where they typically go. I've been to two and they both were tasting menu's.

[TheTravellers]

Michelin just awarded their first stars to Colorado this year, they are growing, but it's very very slowly. The only restaurants in OKC that would likely stand a chance would be Nonesuch or Grey Sweater, they fit the style that Michelin typically goes for. It's not written in stone, but tasting menu's with a lot of ingenuity are where they typically go. I've been to two and they both were tasting menu's.

Having been to both Nonesuch and Grey Sweater, I don't think either one would rate a star right now. Chipped bowls, too salty lamb, and a few other things at Grey Sweater would preclude that. Nonesuch has been a long time ago, and the food was better there, but not sure if it's at a Michelin-star level. Have never been to a Michelin-starred restaurant, but from what I've read, Nonesuch probably isn't one.

[Mballard85]

Having been to both Nonesuch and Grey Sweater, I don't think either one would rate a star right now. Chipped bowls, too salty lamb, and a few other things at Grey Sweater would preclude that. Nonesuch has been a long time ago, and the food was better there, but not sure if it's at a Michelin-star level. Have never been to a Michelin-starred restaurant, but from what I've read, Nonesuch probably isn't one.

Nonesuch could very well get the recommendation but not the distinction, the thing they have going for them right now is they just got taken over by the best group in the region who have stars in the Colorado guide. There will undoubtedly be some tightening up of things that will help. One thing about the two that I have dined at is they both have provided something that stands out, a dish that really changed the way I look at certain foods. Nonesuch has done that before, so I'm a big fan.

This is all for not though if they do not award here, which we would be lumped into a TX guide if they do one, so it could happen.

[Rover]

Nonesuch could very well get the recommendation but not the distinction, the thing they have going for them right now is they just got taken over by the best group in the region who have stars in the Colorado guide. There will undoubtedly be some tightening up of things that will help. One thing about the two that I have dined at is they both have provided something that stands out, a dish that really changed the way I look at certain foods. Nonesuch has done that before, so I'm a big fan.

This is all for not though if they do not award here, which we would be lumped into a TX guide if they do one, so it could happen.

Don’t believe they rate Texas either. Regardless, consistency is one of the criteria. Michelin is very demanding. Ive eaten at starred restaurants and i don't believe any OK restaurant would stand up to their criteria.

[Mballard85]

Don’t believe they rate Texas either. Regardless, consistency is one of the criteria. Michelin is very demanding. Ive eaten at starred restaurants and i don't believe any OK restaurant would stand up to their criteria.

Correct, but the guide is starting to expand further, so I was meaning if they decided to go into TX we would likely fall under that.

In regards to the second part, you are correct, but given the track record of Id Est it's certainly possible that they reach that level.

[TheTravellers]

Correct, but the guide is starting to expand further, so I was meaning if they decided to go into TX we would likely fall under that.

In regards to the second part, you are correct, but given the track record of Id Est it's certainly possible that they reach that level.

We're definitely going back to Nonesuch in a bunch of months after they get settled in, not so much for Grey Sweater (we'll try his other restaurants, though).

[OkieinGeorgia]

Now in Texas

https://guide.michelin.com/us/en/art...pands-to-texas

And, from the article....

"Michelin published its first North American Guide in 2005 for New York. Guides have since been added in Washington, D.C.; Chicago; California; Miami/Orlando/Tampa, Florida; Colorado; Atlanta, Toronto; Vancouver; and Mexico."

[citywokchinesefood]

The service standards and quality of food at Grey Sweater and Nonesuch are absolutely not Michelin quality. Nonesuch could certainly get there based on the pedigree of the ownership group. Culinary Edge Concepts does not currently have the people in place to make a real push. They either need a hell of a consultant or to recruit an operator that can do that work for them. If you have not had the opportunity to go to a restaurant that has stars or something like the AAA/Forbes 5 star/diamond rating it is hard to realize how stark the difference is. The little things you have to ask for a fine dining restaurant around here is automatic at the highest end properties. A service lapse in okc could be your wine pairing is delivered late, in a Michelin stared place it is the etched makers mark of the wine glass not being positioned facing you correctly. It is just another level beyond what most of us are used to expecting.

[Will Dearborn]

Went to nonesuch last night for another restaurant's "takeover" - they've got a long long way to go on service to even be in the conversation for having a star or other rating.

[CitySooner]

The service standards and quality of food at Grey Sweater and Nonesuch are absolutely not Michelin quality. Nonesuch could certainly get there based on the pedigree of the ownership group. Culinary Edge Concepts does not currently have the people in place to make a real push. They either need a hell of a consultant or to recruit an operator that can do that work for them. If you have not had the opportunity to go to a restaurant that has stars or something like the AAA/Forbes 5 star/diamond rating it is hard to realize how stark the difference is. The little things you have to ask for a fine dining restaurant around here is automatic at the highest end properties. A service lapse in okc could be your wine pairing is delivered late, in a Michelin stared place it is the etched makers mark of the wine glass not being positioned facing you correctly. It is just another level beyond what most of us are used to expecting.

What you describe reminds me a lot of Eleven Madison Park (pre vegan transformation). What a place that is.

[citywokchinesefood]

What you describe reminds me a lot of Eleven Madison Park (pre vegan transformation). What a place that is.

The service at EMP is still just as good, you just have to be willing to drop a grand on a vegan meal for two. I genuinely enjoyed the last time I went after the move to plant based. All the Danny Meyer/Will Guidara places have absolutely outstanding service. Blue Hill NYC and Stone Barn both also have incredible service that leave almost as big of an impression as the food. Le Benardin, Daniel, Per Se also have really remarkable service experiences. They really blur the line between going out to dinner and going to a show. When I go back to the city I eat more at restaurants that are more humble the majority of my meals. However, every trip I will splurge on a meal or three and it is always worth it.

[Timshel]

^ Agreed.

Randomly just finished reading Danny Meyer's book "Setting the Table." Highly recommend if you like businessy books or like fine dining. Is half memoir half him explaining how his approach to hospitality applies to businesses - restaurants and otherwise.

[CitySooner]

The service at EMP is still just as good, you just have to be willing to drop a grand on a vegan meal for two. I genuinely enjoyed the last time I went after the move to plant based. All the Danny Meyer/Will Guidara places have absolutely outstanding service. Blue Hill NYC and Stone Barn both also have incredible service that leave almost as big of an impression as the food. Le Benardin, Daniel, Per Se also have really remarkable service experiences. They really blur the line between going out to dinner and going to a show. When I go back to the city I eat more at restaurants that are more humble the majority of my meals. However, every trip I will splurge on a meal or three and it is always worth it.

I'm with you on the "humble" part. You can find just as many gems in the city that way. Le Bernardin is phenomenal, only other one from your list that I've been to. Not on the same level as the restaurants mentioned, but I really miss Cherche Midi in LES.

[BoulderSooner]

The service at EMP is still just as good, you just have to be willing to drop a grand on a vegan meal for two. I genuinely enjoyed the last time I went after the move to plant based. All the Danny Meyer/Will Guidara places have absolutely outstanding service. Blue Hill NYC and Stone Barn both also have incredible service that leave almost as big of an impression as the food. Le Benardin, Daniel, Per Se also have really remarkable service experiences. They really blur the line between going out to dinner and going to a show. When I go back to the city I eat more at restaurants that are more humble the majority of my meals. However, every trip I will splurge on a meal or three and it is always worth it.

EMP was great the one time i went (pre vegan) i would not pay to go back with the change ..

Topolobamopo in chicago has had a star every year since michelin was in chicago .. and it is always fantastic .. (I wish OKC's own Rick Bayless would open a Frontera here)

[TheTravellers]

...

Topolobamopo in chicago has had a star every year since michelin was in chicago .. and it is always fantastic .. (I wish OKC's own Rick Bayless would open a Frontera here)

Second, third, and fourth this! Or really open any restaurant here. We used to eat at Frontera and Topolobampo when we lived in Chicagoland, great stuff. Looks like it got a star in 2010 (2-3 years after we moved away).

[Rover]

Second, third, and fourth this! Or really open any restaurant here. We used to eat at Frontera and Topolobampo when we lived in Chicagoland, great stuff. Looks like it got a star in 2010 (2-3 years after we moved away).

Looks like a local developer would reach out to Rick and offer incentives or partner with him to open here. Would be a great attraction. Would have been a better get at Chisholm Creek than Ramseys or Uncle Julio.

Pete, didn't you go to school with him? Why doesn’t he embrace OKC?

[jrr2ok]

Looks like a local developer would reach out to Rick and offer incentives or partner with him to open here. Would be a great attraction. Would have been a better get at Chisholm Creek than Ramseys or Uncle Julio.

Pete, didn't you go to school with him? Why doesn’t he embrace OKC?

I recently re-entered the hospitality world after a 20+ year foray into more white collar work. My previous restaurant experience includes stints with some of the names/concepts regarded favorably on this thread.

No one like Bayless is going to bring a high end concept here because the talent pool is far too shallow. There's not enough quality prep and line cooks because anyone with the least bit of talent and passion gets promoted into a management role before they're ready. The dearth of talent is even worse for front of house management. So-called "managers" are trained to focus on the top (sales) and bottom (profit) lines without understanding the consistency of execution and hospitality that makes restaurants great. That execution and hospitality, ironically, gets reflected in all those numbers between the top and bottom lines on a P&L statement. So most of the people here who would do that work here can't (because they don't know how), and those who could do that work here don't (either because they move to higher paying markets with more visibility, or they opt into easier concepts that don't require as much work and oversight).

The bad or inconsistent service people receive in OKC isn't from bad servers per se; it's from poorly trained and unsupervised staff. That's a management issue. I will promise you that the best FOH staffs in town are the ones where there is a managerial presence on the floor most of the time, and a culture of accountability and pride. I can count that list on two hands easily, and likely on one.

EDIT/ADDENDUM: To tie this back to the original thread, I've spoken to both people who worked/are working at Perle Mesta and customers who have dined there. It has been, to be diplomatic, described in terms synonymous with "inconsistent", "without standards", "directionless", "unsupervised", "clueless", and perhaps most importantly, "not good".

[Rover]

I recently re-entered the hospitality world after a 20+ year foray into more white collar work. My previous restaurant experience includes stints with some of the names/concepts regarded favorably on this thread.

No one like Bayless is going to bring a high end concept here because the talent pool is far too shallow. There's not enough quality prep and line cooks because anyone with the least bit of talent and passion gets promoted into a management role before they're ready. The dearth of talent is even worse for front of house management. So-called "managers" are trained to focus on the top (sales) and bottom (profit) lines without understanding the consistency of execution and hospitality that makes restaurants great. That execution and hospitality, ironically, gets reflected in all those numbers between the top and bottom lines on a P&L statement. So most of the people here who would do that work here can't (because they don't know how), and those who could do that work here don't (either because they move to higher paying markets with more visibility, or they opt into easier concepts that don't require as much work and oversight).

The bad or inconsistent service people receive in OKC isn't from bad servers per se; it's from poorly trained and unsupervised staff. That's a management issue. I will promise you that the best FOH staffs in town are the ones where there is a managerial presence on the floor most of the time, and a culture of accountability and pride. I can count that list on two hands easily, and likely on one.

EDIT/ADDENDUM: To tie this back to the original thread, I've spoken to both people who worked/are working at Perle Mesta and customers who have dined there. It has been, to be diplomatic, described in terms synonymous with "inconsistent", "without standards", "directionless", "unsupervised", "clueless", and perhaps most importantly, "not good".

So, why can’t Bayless do what Ramsey is doing here?

[Paseofreak]

Perhaps he’d prefer not to.

[TheTravellers]

So, why can’t Bayless do what Ramsey is doing here?

We were very unimpressed with Ramsay's Kitchen, so I'd rather not Bayless do what Ramsay's doing here.