Uptown / 23rd District

[OkieBerto]

I dont think you guys are really understanding the situation. This was the early 2000's. We're not talking todays prolific massive F250's everywhere. All this took was one normal sized Ford truck parked on the side of 23rd so much that I could see his tires touching the curb (he couldn't have moved any more to the side than he was) and another normal sized ford truck simply passing each other. If you look, a lot of vehicles pull their mirrors in on 23rd in this area for this reason. I bet he started doing that too. Not so practical to do if you're the one driving down the road. Also, nor should I. If the road is sized to proper standards, then there is room. It only became a problem when the median was thrown in there without giving either size the compensatory space back. That's also why there's no concrete next to the curb there. In order to get the space for the cars to drive, they had to asphalt right up to the curb....and require people drive right up to the curb. Next time you drive that section near Tower, check out the tire marks on the concrete curbs.

In no way were we oversized folks. Neither vehicle. But thanks for being so wonderful about it. This was a small anecdote to discuss the problems that the city created that dont exist on any other stretch of 23rd. Now, 30 years later, they're going to do something about it, and I'm glad.

And if i still have a large SUV, I shouldn't have to worry about if it's going to fit driving down a city street. If you're statement was taken as the opinion of the city, then we have a problem. The roads are not designed for my SUV or even those duley 2500 Chevys. They are made to be able to accommodate semi trucks/box trucks/etc. And if you've ever watched one try to drive there, well it was probably a unique experience because they mostly avoid this section for all the reasons I mentioned. Unless they have a delivery in that exact section, they take alternate routes because it's no unfriendly to them.

But yeah, my f150 sized vehicle was the problem here....good job for pointing that out. I dont know what i would have done without that wonderful retort.

Yes, it is crazy to think people don't understand that city streets should be able to accommodate a semi-truck and its turn radius. My brother drives a Semi for Fedex and talks about the horrors of streets like this not having a center lane. Even the way a curb is cut should be taken into consideration when we are talking about a major street.

The median is cut pretty far back, but it is still a problem for most large vehicles to make this turn. It has been repaired a few times in the past and still we see it getting beat up.

[josefromtulsa]

Yes, it is crazy to think people don't understand that city streets should be able to accommodate a semi-truck and its turn radius. My brother drives a Semi for Fedex and talks about the horrors of streets like this not having a center lane. Even the way a curb is cut should be taken into consideration when we are talking about a major street.

The median is cut pretty far back, but it is still a problem for most large vehicles to make this turn. It has been repaired a few times in the past and still we see it getting beat up.

Those same changes to accommodate semis also allow for people to speed and take turns at faster speeds which makes the street unsafe for all.

City streets should not be designed for semi-trucks. Box trucks and vans exist for a reason. Many of the streets around the area are supposedly only for vehicles for 3 axles or less.

[fortpatches]

Those same changes to accommodate semis also allow for people to speed and take turns at faster speeds which makes the street unsafe for all.

City streets should not be designed for semi-trucks. Box trucks and vans exist for a reason. Many of the streets around the area are supposedly only for vehicles for 3 axles or less.

When I worked in transportation, this is exactly why we had distribution centers in an industrial area with interstate access - so our semis could easily go between distribution centers and relays or intermodal. Semis were not user for customer delivery except in industrial areas and an FTL delivery. LTL deliveries were always transferred to single pups (short trailers) or box trucks. "Final mile" delivery was actually an entirely different department from "Transportation".

[Plutonic Panda]

Having medians like this also provides for landscaping and trees, which can reduce the urban heat island effect. I’d much rather see some kind of facility built at certain points off of freeways or roads that are built to accommodate semis Where the cargo can be transferred to box trucks.

[TheTravellers]

Those same changes to accommodate semis also allow for people to speed and take turns at faster speeds which makes the street unsafe for all.

City streets should not be designed for semi-trucks. Box trucks and vans exist for a reason. Many of the streets around the area are supposedly only for vehicles for 3 axles or less.

*LESS* than 3 axles. Normal residential streets have signs up that used to say "TRUCKS IN EXCESS OF 2 AXLES PROHIBITED", but the newer signs substitute VEHICLES instead of TRUCKS. Almost every residential street has these signs at the entrance to them from any main street (23rd, 36th, whatever), and at tons of internal residential intersections.

[josefromtulsa]

*LESS* than 3 axles. Normal residential streets have signs up that used to say "TRUCKS IN EXCESS OF 2 AXLES PROHIBITED", but the newer signs substitute VEHICLES instead of TRUCKS. Almost every residential street has these signs at the entrance to them from any main street (23rd, 36th, whatever), and at tons of internal residential intersections.

This was one of my gripes to the city. These huge trucks and garbage trucks are responsible for a lot of the wear and tear on the roads. On Walker there are semis delivering to paseo businesses all the time. They've taken out some tree branches in the last week lol.

[bombermwc]

But why should the semi truck not be able to travel on a main artery road to access the businesses they are delivering to? Why should 23rd not be accessible to them and cause the turns to be problematic and thus damaging to the road?

Again, i wasn't a King Ranch, i was what USED to be a normal 2 door truck, hitting a normal 2 door truck. And I still had problems or sort of white knuckled my way through there (especially the west bound lane near the Tower) hoping it didn't happen again. But why should I have to do that just so someone can put trees int he middle of a road that was never designed to be able to hold trees in a median that the road doesn't have space for? It's pretty unique in OKC that they did that and it wasn't a good thing honestly.

If i'm Sysco or someone, i'm going to drive the shorter what 43' semis to deliver food to restaurants because that's the most economical way to deliver pallets of items around the city. If I'm going to be forced to change to box trucks, then my costs go up because i need more vehicles and more drivers, more lifts, etc. Guess what that means, those prices at your restaurants are going to go up to pay for the price increases I've passed on to my customer because of their municipal rules. So that will impact you directly and potentially can be damaging to the business. The Paseo is really the only area that has that direct issue for 23rd because honestly the trucks have the option to take alternate routes pretty much everywhere else there. But my point is that they shouldn't have to. I've always been a proponent of there being a bit more of a diesel tax to make up for the cost that the larger vehicles cause to the roads. In the macro scale, we come out saving there even if we spend a little more because of the handed down expense increase. Right now, we're paying out of our pocket to subsidize them and their damage. The larger economy of scale of diesel drivers basically paying a use-tax, helps spread the expense out to cover their damage. OKC would potentially be able to benefit from that as well for road repairs.

I agree with the statement about the King Ranch people complaining can hush. But if it fits a semi, then that King Ranch will fit too and if they still say it doesn't, then they don't know how to drive well enough anyway.

I dont think we're probably going to agree on this, and that's fine. It's not like we're making the policy for the city here anyway. My main point is that the city didn't think very well when they made changes here 30 years ago and focused only on one aspect of it in their attempt to beautify a struggling area (remember what it was like in 2000, not what it is today). IMO, they picked the wrong focus and ignore many other options that they had available to them to accomplish the same thing.

[bombermwc]

duplicate

[OkieBerto]

I understand the gripe for Semi's in The Plaza or The Paseo, but Uptown 23rd is on a main street. They cannot restrict semi-access to that street. Also, a sign doesn't keep trucks or any other type of vehicle from entering a location. They are suggestions to most drivers. They know a cop isn't just sitting there waiting for them to screw up and use those roads.

[HOT ROD]

i dont think the issue is necessarily that semis are traveling along 23rd; it is that they are turning. 23rd is the few areas of the city outside of downtown that has incredible density and therefore isn't being built around the vehicle. Companies will need to adopt to this by, as was mentioned - switching to smaller vehicles for deliveries/stocking just like the do in other urban areas.

[BoulderSooner]

i dont think the issue is necessarily that semis are traveling along 23rd; it is that they are turning. 23rd is the few areas of the city outside of downtown that has incredible density and therefore isn't being built around the vehicle. Companies will need to adopt to this by, as was mentioned - switching to smaller vehicles for deliveries/stocking just like the do in other urban areas.

there is and should be an expectation that 23rd is fully assessable by a full size semi ..

[BDP]

i dont think the issue is necessarily that semis are traveling along 23rd; it is that they are turning. 23rd is the few areas of the city outside of downtown that has incredible density and therefore isn't being built around the vehicle. Companies will need to adopt to this by, as was mentioned - switching to smaller vehicles for deliveries/stocking just like the do in other urban areas.

Are the lanes really even that much more narrow? We're really only talking about four blocks and I've driven a large cargo van down this strip countless times and I don't ever remember thinking it was any different than everything east and west of it. Sure the lights and cross walks slow it down, as they should, but I never felt squeezed driving through it.

Honestly, the sketchiest part of 23rd right now is crossing it on Classen. The striping is almost completely gone. For some reason, people seem to have trouble staying in their lanes on Classen, even where the striping is visible. As of now, there basically aren't any lanes on either side of 23rd.

[caaokc]

Are the lanes really even that much more narrow? We're really only talking about four blocks and I've driven a large cargo van down this strip countless times and I don't ever remember thinking it was any different than everything east and west of it. Sure the lights and cross walks slow it down, as they should, but I never felt squeezed driving through it.

Honestly, the sketchiest part of 23rd right now is crossing it on Classen. The striping is almost completely gone. For some reason, people seem to have trouble staying in their lanes on Classen, even where the striping is visible. As of now, there basically aren't any lanes on either side of 23rd.

Agree a thousand percent about Classen. Plus people driving it like it’s a highway.

[eeyore]

It would be great if they just got rid of the outside lanes in this area of Classen, the road can’t handle the busses and other heavy vehicles and it makes that lane impassible for any other vehicle, causing people to constantly depart their lane to avoid the holes.

[OKCbyTRANSFER]

Saw the Dollar General store on the west side of Classen had 3 windows damaged with plywood over them. One was the front door. Again, not good for business.

[dheinz44]

This morning I noticed that the Family Dollar on 23rd/Harvey had a store closing sign out front. Hopefully we get something better to backfill, which shouldn't be difficult.

[cinnamonjock]

I wonder why they are closing. They always seemed busy

[OkieBerto]

I wonder why they are closing. They always seemed busy

Family Dollar/Dollar Tree are slowly closing over 600 stores nationwide. It has nothing to do with how busy a location might be.

[warreng88]

Looks like SWIG, west of Penn on 23rd is about ready to open. All the times are painted but the menus aren't up yet. Not sure what else they have to do here.

[warreng88]

Looks like SWIG, west of Penn on 23rd is about ready to open. All the times are painted but the menus aren't up yet. Not sure what else they have to do here.

After I posted that, I saw on the website they are supposed to open on 9/26.

[Pete]

Plans have been filed for the 23rd Street redo between Western and Broadway.

They are marked 'preliminary' but I suppose they are looking to get construction bids before they finalize everything.

Looks like all of the median will be removed and lots of trees planted along the roadway.

[DoctorTaco]

Plans have been filed for the 23rd Street redo between Western and Robinson.

They are marked 'preliminary' but I suppose they are looking to get construction bids before they finalize everything.

These look great! Like a lot of people I think turn lanes would have done a world of good on 23rd but absent that the bulb-outs and wider sidewalks and street trees will make a world of difference for pedestrians.

[aDark]

Plans have been filed for the 23rd Street redo between Western and Robinson.

They are marked 'preliminary' but I suppose they are looking to get construction bids before they finalize everything.

Looks like all of the median will be removed and lots of trees planted along the roadway.

It looks like the plans stretch all the way east to Broadway, which is great.

I wonder if any of those trees in the median can be uprooted and relocated into the new tree areas on the sidewalks. Would make a profound difference if they didn't have to start with new trees there!

[HOT ROD]

love it, this should not only be in the Uptown core district but also extend over to Pennsylvania and to I-35, where possible. 23rd should be OKC's truly urban street considering it has OCU/University District, Asian District, Uptown 23rd District, Eastside district, and the entrance to Paseo Arts District along a 4-5 mile path; it all should strive for this level of urban design.

[Bits_Of_Real_Panther]

Classen north of 23rd will be closed starting around 9am Friday for the Asian Night Market Festival running both Friday and Saturday from 5pm - 10pm.