University Town Center

[bombermwc]

Pretty much Dillards, Old Navy and Chik-fil-a keep it open. Maybe victorias secret? Seems busy but I admittedly don't shop there.

So is the mall on its last leg? Obviously any store could pick up and move to any strip mall in Norman and be fine. But Dillards, unless they own their structure and would be willing to be open while the rest of the mall closed, then at least from what's being said here, it looks like its on life support.

It's been probably 12-13 years since I've been in that mall myself, so i have absolutely zero current context. university park barely existed the last time i went to the mall so oh how the world has changed. I'd like to say it would be sad if it closed, but honestly I do not know that many people would care that much would they? Norman is strong enough that someone could easily buy that land and build something new. It would be a good opportunity to fix that weird frontage road mess that does that stupid thing at the mall entrance too.

[bombermwc]

Pretty much Dillards, Old Navy and Chik-fil-a keep it open. Maybe victorias secret? Seems busy but I admittedly don't shop there.

So is the mall on its last leg? Obviously any store could pick up and move to any strip mall in Norman and be fine. But Dillards, unless they own their structure and would be willing to be open while the rest of the mall closed, then at least from what's being said here, it looks like its on life support.

It's been probably 12-13 years since I've been in that mall myself, so i have absolutely zero current context. university park barely existed the last time i went to the mall so oh how the world has changed. I'd like to say it would be sad if it closed, but honestly I do not know that many people would care that much would they? Norman is strong enough that someone could easily buy that land and build something new. It would be a good opportunity to fix that weird frontage road mess that does that stupid thing at the mall entrance too.

[FighttheGoodFight]

So is the mall on its last leg? Obviously any store could pick up and move to any strip mall in Norman and be fine. But Dillards, unless they own their structure and would be willing to be open while the rest of the mall closed, then at least from what's being said here, it looks like its on life support.

It's been probably 12-13 years since I've been in that mall myself, so i have absolutely zero current context. university park barely existed the last time i went to the mall so oh how the world has changed. I'd like to say it would be sad if it closed, but honestly I do not know that many people would care that much would they? Norman is strong enough that someone could easily buy that land and build something new. It would be a good opportunity to fix that weird frontage road mess that does that stupid thing at the mall entrance too.

Ya it is pretty barren in there. Nothing ever went back into Sears which is a large part of the mall. I'd assume it closes eventually and probably gets bulldozed. Pretty valuable land right there on the highway.

[Soonerman]

I wouldn't be surprised if Dillard's downgrades the Norman store to a Clearance Center in the future

[bombermwc]

Ya it is pretty barren in there. Nothing ever went back into Sears which is a large part of the mall. I'd assume it closes eventually and probably gets bulldozed. Pretty valuable land right there on the highway.

I know an arena that would love to be build here hahahahahahaha

[rcjunkie]

OU definately needs a new aena, however, it should be built by OU, paid for by OU and built on School property.

[BG918]

OU definately needs a new aena, however, it should be built by OU, paid for by OU and built on School property.

Poll the people of Norman and students at OU and I guarantee they would overwhelmingly agree with you

[bison34]

Poll the people of Norman and students at OU and I guarantee they would overwhelmingly agree with you

Poll the people of any city, and any college in said city, and they would agree. Same with OKC and a new arena. Ideally, the Thunder billionaire owners would have paid for it.

[Jersey Boss]

Poll the people of any city, and any college in said city, and they would agree. Same with OKC and a new arena. Ideally, the Thunder billionaire owners would have paid for it.

The December 2023 election in OKC refutes your post. Just sayin'

[bison34]

The December 2023 election in OKC refutes your post. Just sayin'

I'm saying that they would have preferred to not have had to vote at all, and had billionaires pay for it.

Most people I know voted yes, but only because they understood what losing the Thunder would truly do to this city.

[Rover]

Poll the people of any city, and any college in said city, and they would agree. Same with OKC and a new arena. Ideally, the Thunder billionaire owners would have paid for it.

Guessing you are conveniently forgetting all the Maps votes. Not everyone is cynical and paranoid of progress.

[bison34]

Guessing you are conveniently forgetting all the Maps votes. Not everyone is cynical and paranoid of progress.

I said that when it comes to a wealthy person spending their money or thr lay person spending theirs to fund an arena for a private tenant, the lay person would rather the billionaire spend their money. Most lay people won't be able to go to the arena a lot.

But they like progress, so they vote for it.

[Rover]

I said that when it comes to a wealthy person spending their money or thr lay person spending theirs to fund an arena for a private tenant, the lay person would rather the billionaire spend their money. Most lay people won't be able to go to the arena a lot.

But they like progress, so they vote for it.

Lay person has nothing to do with financial standing. What even are you saying?

[bison34]

Lay person has nothing to do with financial standing. What even are you saying?

I mean one who gains nothing from it. What do I gain financially from an arena? Nothing. What does Thunder ownership gain? Billions in the long run. What does OKC as a city gain? Thunder for 25 years and the notoriety from that, and an arena that gets awesome shows and tax revenue.

So the city and Thunder owners benefit. But Sally Sue on Mockingbird Lane gains nothing, hence why I said that, in an ideal world, people would prefer the wealthy benefactors pay for something.

No need to get antagonistic.

[Jeepnokc]

I mean one who gains nothing from it. What do I gain financially from an arena? Nothing. What does Thunder ownership gain? Billions in the long run. What does OKC as a city gain? Thunder for 25 years and the notoriety from that, and an arena that gets awesome shows and tax revenue.

So the city and Thunder owners benefit. But Sally Sue on Mockingbird Lane gains nothing, hence why I said that, in an ideal world, people would prefer the wealthy benefactors pay for something.

No need to get antagonistic.

You also have to consider the economic boost. I am not a basketball fan but I enjoy the benefit of having their fans hire me when they get in trouble at or after the game and need legal help. All the uber/limo drivers and local hotel/restaurants sure benefit from the boost on game nights. The people that have jobs at the arena benefit from having a paying job that generates income for them to spend at other businesses in the city. Having a vibrant downtown helps all the property owners downtown as it increases property value.

[Rover]

I mean one who gains nothing from it. What do I gain financially from an arena? Nothing. What does Thunder ownership gain? Billions in the long run. What does OKC as a city gain? Thunder for 25 years and the notoriety from that, and an arena that gets awesome shows and tax revenue.

So the city and Thunder owners benefit. But Sally Sue on Mockingbird Lane gains nothing, hence why I said that, in an ideal world, people would prefer the wealthy benefactors pay for something.

No need to get antagonistic.

Not antagonistic, but didn’t understand the use of the term lay person. You mean rich vs not rich persons.
This whole subject has been argued to death and for those that oppose it wont change their attitude. But the citizens spoke in a vote and they seem to agree with the value to our city and its citizens. Its already decided here.

[bombermwc]

Hey, if the city could force them to pay for it themselves, they probably would. But that's not going to happen. And that also means the city would lose out on any ability to profit share from any events that would beheld there. Really, the public/private partnership for an investment of that size, is what's best. The arguments come in on who is going to pay what percentage.

Not sure where you say the city gains nothing from it. If the city owns the building, the city gets a cut of everything that happens there. That's a WHOLE LOTTA MONEY. Not to mention all the folks that travel in for events. The age old economics argument of just moving your money around comes in here for OKC residents. If we didn't spend it on Thunder games or concerts, we would have spent it on something else in OKC. But those people that come from out of OKC, that's all new money in the bucket that would not have existed before.

Both groups benefit in the way the agreement was set up. Sally Sue gets that money into the OKC Budget to help pay for the Pothole Patrol, as an example. So Sally Sue actually does benefit from the success of the building.

[Rover]

Hey, if the city could force them to pay for it themselves, they probably would. But that's not going to happen. And that also means the city would lose out on any ability to profit share from any events that would beheld there. Really, the public/private partnership for an investment of that size, is what's best. The arguments come in on who is going to pay what percentage.

Not sure where you say the city gains nothing from it. If the city owns the building, the city gets a cut of everything that happens there. That's a WHOLE LOTTA MONEY. Not to mention all the folks that travel in for events. The age old economics argument of just moving your money around comes in here for OKC residents. If we didn't spend it on Thunder games or concerts, we would have spent it on something else in OKC. But those people that come from out of OKC, that's all new money in the bucket that would not have existed before.

Both groups benefit in the way the agreement was set up. Sally Sue gets that money into the OKC Budget to help pay for the Pothole Patrol, as an example. So Sally Sue actually does benefit from the success of the building.

And don’t forget the wider view where edifices like this and sports amenities like the Thunder are a huge part of a holistic national and international image of OKC that contributes to overall growth and investment in the city, as well as job growth. It is myopic to look at every element only through a microscope. That eliminates context and proportion.

[BoulderSooner]

looking more and more like this might be approved this month

[BimmerSooner]

looking more and more like this might be approved this month

I’ve heard the same.

[jedicurt]

OU definately needs a new aena, however, it should be built by OU, paid for by OU and built on School property.

so you are saying it shouldn't happen for the next 15-20 years. got it.

[aDark]

I’ve heard the same.

Didn't city council vote to hold a public vote, without any teeth? Did that vote ever happen? I watched a brief portion of the city council meeting at issue and, my goodness, the this issue is divisive as all get out!

[BoulderSooner]

Didn't city council vote to hold a public vote, without any teeth? Did that vote ever happen? I watched a brief portion of the city council meeting at issue and, my goodness, the this issue is divisive as all get out!

the "old" city council voted (5-4) to set that non binding vote for august.... the "new" city council started last week ... (2 of the yes to the public vote members were replaced with what everyone seems to think are PRO arena votes) ....

the arena TIF item will come up on the council agenda (for introduction) at tomorrows meeting and if it moves forward at a normal pace could come up for a Final vote of the council on July 23rd in 2 weeks.

[BimmerSooner]

Didn't city council vote to hold a public vote, without any teeth? Did that vote ever happen? I watched a brief portion of the city council meeting at issue and, my goodness, the this issue is divisive as all get out!

New Council just got seated (2 new members) and they now believe they have the votes to pass. I assume if that happens, the public vote would not occur. The previous vote was by the previous council and was a bit of a last minute effort by just enough of them to stall it.

[BG918]

I guarantee if this were up to the voters it would fail miserably. This is a horrible plan that is getting back-doored. I’m a football and basketball season ticket holder and will not be renewing my tickets if this moves forward.