DoJ and Live Nation

[Jersey Boss]

It appears that the FTC has been serious about anti trust laws.
Live Nation Expected to Be Hit With Antitrust Suit: Report
https://www.businessinsider.com/live...-report-2024-4

[onthestrip]

It appears that the FTC has been serious about anti trust laws.
Live Nation Expected to Be Hit With Antitrust Suit: Report
https://www.businessinsider.com/live...-report-2024-4

Cant imagine anyone having sympathy for Livenation/ticketmaster here.

Amazing how ticket sellers used to have to have tons of phone operators, print and mail tickets, all of which was timely and costly and now thats all been eliminated with it mostly being all digital. Yet the processing fees are insane these days.

[jdg78]

$39 per ticket processing fee to buy Thunder playoff tickets…����*♂️

[Jersey Boss]

Movement on breaking up this monoply
https://abcnews.go.com/US/justice-de...y?id=110501830

[TheTravellers]

A DOJ spokesperson (I believe) basically said "Yeah, everybody hates them, nobody likes them, we really needed to move on this. Apple, Google, etc. - they all have their supporters and haters, but absolutely nobody is a TM/LN supporter". Glad it's happening, but it probably won't mean much in the end for us. Prekindle has a $20 fee per ticket for the Zoo Flaming Lips shows, pretty hefty since the ticket is only $80, so everybody's screwing the fans.

[bison34]

Not going to be the biggest fix. The problem is these promoters going to bands and saying, "we'll give you 100 dates with a guaranteed payout". Well, who will be paying to make sure the promoter can give the artist that guarantee? Us ticket buyers.

But if it can lower fees, sure, have at it.

[BDP]

The problem is these promoters going to bands and saying, "we'll give you 100 dates with a guaranteed payout".

What promoter can offer 100 dates with guarantees?

[bison34]

What promoter can offer 100 dates with guarantees?

There are 2: AEG and Live Nation. Who do you think puts on large tours. Metallica's recent run of dates the last 2 or so years has been fully guaranteed. The promoters have to meet those guarantees, so they sell expensive tickets. But the fees, that comes from the selling site (Ticketmaster or whatever they use).

[mugofbeer]

However the promoters work, l am still very happy the DOJ is taking this action.

[Jersey Boss]

There are 2: AEG and Live Nation. Who do you think puts on large tours. Metallica's recent run of dates the last 2 or so years has been fully guaranteed. The promoters have to meet those guarantees, so they sell expensive tickets. But the fees, that comes from the selling site (Ticketmaster or whatever they use).

The reason tickets are so expensive is we have a vertical monoply. LN owns TM and has exclusive agreements with venues. There is no competition able to break this stranglehold

[mugofbeer]

With Ticketmaster/Live Nation, they ARE the promoter, the ticket seller, the "exclusive rights" holder and sometimes, the venue owner. If a competitor arises, Ticketmaster/Live Nation threatens to block a venue from getting any prime events. That is a monopoly.

[bison34]

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/bus...sic-rcna153739

Bob Lefsetz, a long-time music industry guy, who now has a show on Sirius XM, said it best in this article: “Ticket prices have nothing to do with Ticketmaster,” Lefsetz wrote, adding: “If you think any change is going to trickle down to the consumer, you’re delusional.”

He would know, as he has been in the industry for a long time, and has been an attorney in the music industry.

Competition is always good, I will agree. But, the problem is not just Live Nation and Ticketmaster. So this DOJ lawsuit is treating a symptom, not a cause.

[BDP]

There are 2: AEG and Live Nation.

That's the point. Live Nation and Ticketmaster are the same. AEG has AXS, but they are not nearly as big. Live Nation can offer 100 guarantees because they own or have deals with that many venues and they get the revenue from the fees generated by the ticket service (in their case, Ticketmaster), as well. That is the monopolistic nature of their organization the DOJ is trying to address. You claimed the "problem is these promoters going to bands and saying, 'we'll give you 100 dates with a guaranteed payout'". Well Live Nation IS that promoter.

In a lot of ways it's not that Live Nation offers guarantees. Guarantees are nothing new. It's really more about that if you want to plan a significant tour, especially in the US, you have to use Live Nation and, therefore, Ticket Master. AEG is an option, but Live Nation is 3 times bigger than they are.

[BDP]

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/bus...sic-rcna153739

Bob Lefsetz, a long-time music industry guy, who now has a show on Sirius XM, said it best in this article: “Ticket prices have nothing to do with Ticketmaster,” Lefsetz wrote, adding: “If you think any change is going to trickle down to the consumer, you’re delusional.”

He would know, as he has been in the industry for a long time, and has been an attorney in the music industry.

Competition is always good, I will agree. But, the problem is not just Live Nation and Ticketmaster. So this DOJ lawsuit is treating a symptom, not a cause.

Ticket prices, maybe not. But ticket fees could be restructured if there was more competition.

In addition to productions costs, higher tickets prices are partly due to the fact that recording artists don't make money on recordings anymore and haven't for years. Live performance has helped to replace some of that revenue. There was a time when tours were subsidized by the labels because they viewed it as promotion for selling records.

[mugofbeer]

When a single company controls the venues and eliminates entertainment competition on the same nights, many ticket prices will come down. No, Taylor Swift or the Thunder won't see decreases, but others who need to attract an audience will. That's supply and demand. Fees will also decrease dramatically. Instead of paying $320 - $400 for two $100 tickets, you will pay much closer to $200.

[BDP]

When a single company controls the venues and eliminates entertainment competition on the same nights, many ticket prices will come down. No, Taylor Swift or the Thunder won't see decreases, but others who need to attract an audience will. That's supply and demand. Fees will also decrease dramatically. Instead of paying $320 - $400 for two $100 tickets, you will pay much closer to $200.

There's also the element of how they use their TM agreements with venues to shut out or make life uncomfortable for other promoters who want to book those venues, since they still have to use Ticketmaster. It's as much about how they use their market dominance to shut out competition as it is the actual effects of cost to consumer.

There's a good rolling stone article about what the DOJ is alleging that gives good insight to how Live Nation operates. It seems one of their main goals is to eliminate artists' agents' negotiating leverage. I get a paywall I can't get past on desktop, but I can view it on mobile:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...nt-1235026841/

One of my favorite parts is that LN says that it's actually venues that set up and keep the ticket fees. The DOJ points out that the venues and promoters that benefit from the fees are often Live Nation properties. lol

[citywokchinesefood]

Finally. It would be good to see the FTC actually start to protect consumers from these businesses that have run amuck.