NHL/Coyotes

[Jersey Boss]

It appears the Coyotes will be relocating to SLC.
It is a shame that a new arena is being planned for OKC w/o the capability to have a pro hockey team as a tenant.
SLC appears to be very similar population wise and with the same number of presently located major league teams and sports.

[bison34]

It appears the Coyotes will be relocating to SLC.
It is a shame that a new arena is being planned for OKC w/o the capability to have a pro hockey team as a tenant.
SLC appears to be very similar population wise and with the same number of presently located major league teams and sports.

They have quite a bit more people in their metro area, I believe. Like, 90% of their population is in the SLC metro area. The CSA is almost 3 million, including Ogden and Provo.

I get it, though. But I don't think OKC would support an NHL team as much as others on here do. Hockey is a niche activity in OKC. Utah is a more winter sport-based state, so hockey fits them, even more than Phoenix.

[Jake]

They have quite a bit more people in their metro area, I believe. Like, 90% of their population is in the SLC metro area. The CSA is almost 3 million, including Ogden and Provo.

I get it, though. But I don't think OKC would support an NHL team as much as others on here do. Hockey is a niche activity in OKC. Utah is a more winter sport-based state, so hockey fits them, even more than Phoenix.

OKC's metro is larger than SLC's but their CSA is substantially larger. The CSA boundaries they have are effing massive though as well. Like an entire third of the state. It even spills over into Idaho.

[Thunderbolt]

Their tourism/convention numbers are much higher too.

SLC saw 26.9 million passengers in 2023. WRWA was 4.4.

[Urbanized]

Their tourism/convention numbers are much higher too.

SLC saw 26.9 million passengers in 2023. WRWA was 4.4.

You can't draw a meaningful comparison between a major airline hub and a non-hub. I'm sure the number of passengers with SLC as a primary destination is still much larger than those deplaning at OKC, but I'm also sure that number is probably well below 10 million. Perhaps more like 5 or 6. The rest of those folks never set foot outside of the airport, and could just as easily be contributing to numbers in Denver or DFW or Atlanta. Deplaning is the number you're looking for.

[Dob Hooligan]

I think the SLC deal is an outlier in the NHL expansion plan. And came together pretty quickly, so far as these relocation deals go. Buyer Ryan Smith has deep roots in the Utah area and owns the NBA Jazz. His ability to absorb the risk of seasonal over saturation has to have been the deciding factor in approval of the NHL.

Houston and Atlanta are the two largest cities talked about in expansion speculation. Houston Rockets owner Tilman Fertitta has been working to get an NHL team there, but I'm guessing his building of a new hotel/casino on the Las Vegas Strip is taking all his energies right now. Atlanta is certainly large enough, but I'm thinking the NHL is leery of losing a third team from a top ten market over the last 50 years, and both of the others only lasting 10 years before they gave up and moved. I'm guessing the NHL is going to demand the owner group be "over capitalized" for the market in order to get a team.

[April in the Plaza]

You can't draw a meaningful comparison between a major airline hub and a non-hub. I'm sure the number of passengers with SLC as a primary destination is still much larger than those deplaning at OKC, but I'm also sure that number is probably well below 10 million. Perhaps more like 5 or 6. The rest of those folks never set foot outside of the airport, and could just as easily be contributing to numbers in Denver or DFW or Atlanta. Deplaning is the number you're looking for.

probably a pretty big deal though, that they have ski slopes and are also the MLM capital of the U.S.

those have to drive a lot of folks into that airport.

[jedicurt]

I think the SLC deal is an outlier in the NHL expansion plan. And came together pretty quickly, so far as these relocation deals go. Buyer Ryan Smith has deep roots in the Utah area and owns the NBA Jazz. His ability to absorb the risk of seasonal over saturation has to have been the deciding factor in approval of the NHL.

Houston and Atlanta are the two largest cities talked about in expansion speculation. Houston Rockets owner Tilman Fertitta has been working to get an NHL team there, but I'm guessing his building of a new hotel/casino on the Las Vegas Strip is taking all his energies right now. Atlanta is certainly large enough, but I'm thinking the NHL is leery of losing a third team from a top ten market over the last 50 years, and both of the others only lasting 10 years before they gave up and moved. I'm guessing the NHL is going to demand the owner group be "over capitalized" for the market in order to get a team.

houston i could see. they already have a long history of supporting hockey. Atlanta could never support the Thrashers as is a terrible place for expansion. they would be better off going back into Quebec.

[Bill Robertson]

Just saw on ESPN that SLC has already sold 11k season tickets to the team. Whatever they'll be named. I don't know but seriously doubt Phoenix ever sold that many.

[citywokchinesefood]

Just saw on ESPN that SLC has already sold 11k season tickets to the team. Whatever they'll be named. I don't know but seriously doubt Phoenix ever sold that many.

This year they played at ASU's rink with a capacity of around 5,000 total.

[Boop]

Just saw on ESPN that SLC has already sold 11k season tickets to the team. Whatever they'll be named. I don't know but seriously doubt Phoenix ever sold that many.

Actually the Coyote did sold that many, here is the attendance history https://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attenda...h.php?tmi=7450

[Boop]

This year they played at ASU's rink with a capacity of around 5,000 total.

Last year also

[Bill Robertson]

Actually the Coyote did sold that many, here is the attendance history https://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attenda...h.php?tmi=7450

Ok. But that was total attendance counting single game tickets. And not over 11k since '20. SLC has sold 11k season tickets and the move was only approved yesterday.

[Boop]

Ok. But that was total attendance counting single game tickets. And not over 11k since '20. SLC has sold 11k season tickets and the move was only approved yesterday.

So? You said I doubt it ever sold that many and you said "Not over 11k since 20" which obviously it sold that many back then so I proved you wrong

[Jersey Boss]

houston i could see. they already have a long history of supporting hockey. Atlanta could never support the Thrashers as is a terrible place for expansion. they would be better off going back into Quebec.

Don't forget the Flames flamed out in Atlanta as well. ATL is not happening.
It frustrates me that the new 1B+ arena will not be able to support hockey. Failure on not looking to the future.
Remeber the Ford Center when built did not have a tenant. City then was looking forward. Also a soccer stadium in the works for what team?
My whole point is it would not significantly cost to put an ice making capability in when you are talking 1B+ for the arena itself. Just do it.

[amocore]

We had a good chl/echl team and it failed. We had a great Ahl team, probably the second best league in the world, and it failed.
Hockey is logically a niche in OK. It doesn’t work.
Let’s move along.
I would prefer the new arena to be basketball centric like the Clippers new one, with closer and stepper baselines than multi activities with terrible evaded stands.

[RangersYear]

I'm ready to put the hockey in OKC to bed as well, amocore. I'd wager we get a pro or minor league soccer, lacrosse, or pickleball team before we delve into hockey again.

[Laramie]

Jersey Boss, like your points . . .

We're building a $1 billion arena, build something multipurpose capable of hosting NBA, NHL, NCAA tournaments, concerts, gymnastics, rodeos and large gatherings in support of the OKC convention center, Omni and DT hotels.

Take notes from Raleigh (41. MSA 1,50 million), similar demographics to Oklahoma City (42. MSA (1.47 million)
Raleigh PNC Arena

Basketball: 19,500 - North Carolina State Wolf Pack.
Capacity Ice hockey: 18,700 - NHL Carolina Hurricanes
Concerts: 21,000

OKC should build an arena comparable to Raleigh's interior arena. Large lower bowl with 2 smaller upper decks. Larger than our current Paycom Center's 18,203 capacity.

[dcsooner]

Jersey Boss, like your points . . .

We're building a $1 billion arena, build something multipurpose capable of hosting NBA, NHL, NCAA tournaments, concerts, gymnastics, rodeos and large gatherings in support of the OKC convention center, Omni and DT hotels.

Take notes from Raleigh (41. MSA 1,50 million), similar demographics to Oklahoma City (42. MSA (1.47 million)
Raleigh PNC Arena

Basketball: 19,500 - North Carolina State Wolf Pack.
Capacity Ice hockey: 18,700 - NHL Carolina Hurricanes
Concerts: 21,000

OKC should build an arena comparable to Raleigh's interior arena. Large lower bowl with 2 smaller upper decks. Larger than our current Paycom Center's 18,203 capacity.

I live in Raleigh now and your stats are incorrect. When speaking of Raleigh you must include Durham-Chapel Hill ( which is contiguous to Raleigh and probably Fayetteville(64miles). Total MSA is approaching 2.2 million(2023 census) and growing fast. In addition businesses are moving into the area constantly https://arcrelocation.com/companies-moving-to-raleigh/. I work part time at the PNC and it is not NBA ready and a $500M upgrade is planned. Do not believe hockey could be sustained in OKC.

[Harbinger]

Don't forget the Flames flamed out in Atlanta as well. ATL is not happening.
It frustrates me that the new 1B+ arena will not be able to support hockey. Failure on not looking to the future.
Remeber the Ford Center when built did not have a tenant. City then was looking forward. Also a soccer stadium in the works for what team?
My whole point is it would not significantly cost to put an ice making capability in when you are talking 1B+ for the arena itself. Just do it.

I totally agree with you about our new arena. It's short sighted to not include hockey. And for those that assert we're not a hockey market, I've seen some good in roads being made via OU and UCO hockey. It is a shame we could not support the Barons, but OKC does continue to grow, so with the right promotion...
As far as Atlanta goes, I don't recall why the Flames left town, but I do know that the Thrashers headed to Winnipeg because the Thrashers' ownership group did a piss poor job of managing the team. I think that if an NHL team was in the right hands in ATL it could work.

[Laramie]

I live in Raleigh now and your stats are incorrect. When speaking of Raleigh you must include Durham-Chapel Hill ( which is contiguous to Raleigh and probably Fayetteville(64miles). Total MSA is approaching 2.2 million(2023 census) and growing fast. In addition businesses are moving into the area constantly https://arcrelocation.com/companies-moving-to-raleigh/. I work part time at the PNC and it is not NBA ready and a $500M upgrade is planned. Do not believe hockey could be sustained in OKC.

Never said hockey could be sustained in OKC--obviously, that's why we don't have a team. But we do have an NBA team (Thunder $3.08 billion) with a higher team evaluation 2x than your Hurricanes ($825 million) 2023 team evaluations.

NBA; https://hoopshype.com/lists/ranking-...celtics-bulls/

NHL: https://www.forbes.com/lists/nhl-val...h=4c2f1f514109

Raleigh IMO was fortunate to win a SC and have the fan base passionate about the team--it was good for the whole area. The source I used was the same source for OKC's population--so you don't need to get all bent out-of-shape over my source which aligned with the Census Bureau data: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrop...atistical_area

I'll give you this--you're in a booming state blessed with outstanding universities. Raleigh rocks. . .

. . . Don't come on here trying to lecture me about Raleigh; because it's not going to amount to a hill-of-beans--so go somewhere and sit down and chill. I was saying something positive using Raleigh as a good example.

[vaflyer]

I believe the new arena should be built to accommodate hockey. The community is paying for the vast majority of the arena, so it should accommodate the most possible uses. If the Thunder wants a basketball specific facility, then they should pay for a lot more of the cost of the new arena.

As for the NHL, the league has a big hole in the southcentral United States (except Dallas), so the league will eventually look towards this area of the country. OKC biggest problem is that it does not have a potential owner that would be willing to spend $1 billion + on a team. SLC was in a similar situation to OKC when they built the Delta Center. Since then, SLC's population has exploded and an owner in Ryan Smith has come along, so they now have to renovate the Delta Center to accommodate the NHL. Hopefully, OKC continues to grow and the market becomes ready for a second professional sports team. If the city builds the arena to accommodate hockey, then adding an NHL team in the future could be done with minimal costs to the community.

[Jersey Boss]

Posters extrapolating the numbers minor league hockey drew to NHL viability are making a weak arguement.
The OKC Calvary drew about a thousand a game 8-9 years ago. How did that number translate to NBA attendace for the Hornets/ Thunder?
In 10 years the arena will be 5 years old. These current population numbers will be invalid then. Put the ice in for the day a team would land here.
More rent for the city coffers.

[PhiAlpha]

Posters extrapolating the numbers minor league hockey drew to NHL viability are making a weak arguement.
The OKC Calvary drew about a thousand a game 8-9 years ago. How did that number translate to NBA attendace for the Hornets/ Thunder?
In 10 years the arena will be 5 years old. These current population numbers will be invalid then. Put the ice in for the day a team would land here.
More rent for the city coffers.

Cavalry 8 or 9 years ago? You mean 28-29 years ago? The Thunder have been here for 16-17 years and we had the hornets 2 of the three years before that.

[Jake]

Id love an NHL team but they’d have to compete with the Thunder during the same time of year and I don’t think the city could support both, although I’d love to be wrong.

Hell, the Thunder were 23rd in attendance this season while having the best team in like 8 years. Don’t think the market is exactly screaming that it could support more teams.