Boardwalk at Bricktown / Dream Hotel

[Pete]

The math here doesn't come close to adding up.

Here is a project in Nashville with a 34-story hotel and 21-story office tower. The construction cost in 2019 was $540 million; adjusted for today's dollars that would be $654 million. Divide that amount by 55 floors and you get $11.8 million/floor.

https://www.bdcnetwork.com/237-room-...opment?page=31

Closer to home, Devon spent almost a billion in adjusted dollars just for a single 50-story building with some ancillary buildings. That's $19 million per floor. Even 27-story BOK Park Plaza cost $333 million in today's dollars, or $12.3 million per floor. The Omni was over $15 million per floor.


For the Boardwalk, Matteson has stated the budget is $1.5 billion and that's for a total of (3) 34-story buildings plus 134 for Legends Tower. Divide 1.5 billion by 236 total floors and you get $6.4 million per floor. And that's in today's dollars, not including inflation by the time all this is complete in 4-5 years, at best.

So, Matteson is saying he can build for half the price of recent comparable projects and do it while constructing the tallest building in the U.S., which is significantly more expensive than any 30-story building.

Another reference point: OKC just budgeted $1 billion just for a new arena. But Matteson is going to build the tallest building in the country plus three more 34-story towers and everything else a block away for merely 50% more.


Also, every previous project he is claiming was through Centurian Partners, not him personally. We have no idea what stake he held in Centurian or what stake Centurian had in any of these completed projects. What we do know is he tried to do something on his own with Quicksilver Hotels and made a bunch of bold promises that completely collapsed. He has done absolutely nothing in his own name or in that of the newly-formed Matteson Capital; Centurian Capital seems to have dissolved.

I did find that a few years ago he was served with legal papers and was living in an apartment in Orange County. There was also the GoFundMe thing for his medical bills and that was in 2019.


Maybe he's raised a ton of money and maybe he'll be able to pull off some or all of this project. But thus far, there has been no hard evidence (i.e. not just his own claims) that would suggest he has anywhere near the wherewithal to get this done. And his budget for the Boardwalk is nowhere close to reality; rather than $1.5 billion he's going to need somewhere between $3-5 billion.

[HOT ROD]

Im sure residential buildings cost less than office on a floor square foot basis. Pete, your examples were all office.

Also, he has $1.7B if you include the TIF. I'd also imagine he'd use revenue generated from the 50% sale/leasing of the Emerald and Ruby residential towers to use for the supertall - otherwise, he wouldn't have that as a performa kanban for Legends Tower to begin.

I'm not sure what the cost should be but just want to keep things as apples to apples and consistent if possible.4

[Pete]

Im sure residential buildings cost less than office on a floor square foot basis. Pete, your examples were all office.

Also, he has $1.7B if you include the TIF. I'd also imagine he'd use revenue generated from the 50% sale/leasing of the Emerald and Ruby residential towers to use for the supertall - otherwise, he wouldn't have that as a performa kanban for Legends Tower to begin.

I'm not sure what the cost should be but just want to keep things as apples to apples and consistent if possible.4

He said his budget is $1.5 billion which has to include all funding sources.

You have it backwards on construction costs. With residential or hotels, you have to have a nice bathroom and often a kitchen in every 1,000 SF, where office space is generally just open with few walls with shared restrooms in 20,000 to 35,000 floor plates. Hotel rooms and luxury apartments are far more expensive per square foot.

[SagerMichael]

I’ll drink the Kool Aid til the glass is empty. I just almost wish there was no Kool Aid and we had detailed renderings and plans laid out for the original 4 30-story buildings. Legends Tower has hijacked the entire development and made the whole thing unbelievable.

[LocoAko]

I’ll drink the Kool Aid til the glass is empty. I just almost wish there was no Kool Aid and we had detailed renderings and plans laid out for the original 4 30-story buildings. Legends Tower has hijacked the entire development and made the whole thing unbelievable.

If the Oklahoman article was correct and they're serious about having their rezoning request heard by the Planning Commission on April 11th, they'd have had to submit their paperwork by February 29th. Those usually post online 3-7 days before the commission meets. So, they should theoretically be forthcoming.

[BDP]

Legends Tower has hijacked the entire development and made the whole thing unbelievable.

Totally agree.

Looking back in the thread, it actually looks like it started as 3 towers: 2 hotel towers and one residential. The idea that one or both towers would be a Dream hotel, combined with the first residential tower in decades with integrated amenities, it all seemed amazing, but also totally doable and viable at this point. Sure, Hogan had under-delivered in the past, but it sounded like an established developer was also involved, so there was at least some reason for optimism.

But not much since then has really helped to reinforce that optimism. It was all just kind of same ole, same ole promises and projections.

And then pretty much all of the latest "news" around it has taken it to the realm of unbelievable. It's like watching an Aaron Rogers interview. Starts out fine and he seems like a normal dude, and then the aliens and UFOs come out. lol.

Unfortunately, the crazy kind of undermines the optimism for the original concept. There are probably developers that thought the original plan was too ambitious to begin with. If none of this gets built, it will only reinforce that sentiment and the attention the failure would get will only be compounded because all of the attention it's gotten by a graphic showing the the second tallest building in the US. It was kind of amusing for a moment there, but it's been kind of distressing seeing him double down on it with dubious claims.

I hope Hogan has some sort of assurances and/or deadlines. I think the worst thing would be if this site sits there for 10 years tied up in all of this and doesn't get developed at all in that time.

[Pete]

When they got the $200 million in TIF, their proposal was two 24-floor towers with a third one to come only after the other two were complete and leased.

Then, somehow, it shot up to 3 towers of 34 stories and a 134-floor tower. All this in about a month.

[warreng88]

When they got the $200 million in TIF, their proposal was two 24-floor towers with a third one to come only after the other two were complete and leased.

Then, somehow, it shot up to 3 towers of 34 stories and a 134-floor tower. All this in about a month.

And Matteson said he wasn't going to ask for more TIF either.

[king183]

And Matteson said he wasn't going to ask for more TIF either.

The city told him there would be no more TIF, whether he asks for it or not.

[josh]

Im sure residential buildings cost less than office on a floor square foot basis. Pete, your examples were all office.

Also, he has $1.7B if you include the TIF. I'd also imagine he'd use revenue generated from the 50% sale/leasing of the Emerald and Ruby residential towers to use for the supertall - otherwise, he wouldn't have that as a performa kanban for Legends Tower to begin.

I'm not sure what the cost should be but just want to keep things as apples to apples and consistent if possible.4

You really are trying to do everything you can to make this seem legit. It’s a grift and the sooner you accept it the less of an impact all of this will have on you when reality eventually hits.

[PhiAlpha]

Im sure residential buildings cost less than office on a floor square foot basis. Pete, your examples were all office.

Also, he has $1.7B if you include the TIF. I'd also imagine he'd use revenue generated from the 50% sale/leasing of the Emerald and Ruby residential towers to use for the supertall - otherwise, he wouldn't have that as a performa kanban for Legends Tower to begin.

I'm not sure what the cost should be but just want to keep things as apples to apples and consistent if possible.4

lol. Give it up dude. The sunshine pumping has to stop. It’s fine to be optimistic about something that is unlikely to happen but all of your posts on this are so over the top.

[PhiAlpha]

What will you do when you are wrong, and the first 3 towers do get built?

I would gladly admit I was wrong but at this point I will be shocked to see anything from this proposal developed here. Way too many red flags. Time to call it what it is until someone starts doing more than running their mouths to the press that’s more interested in advertising for this guy than asking hard questions.

[bison34]

I would gladly admit I was wrong but at this point I will be shocked to see anything from this proposal developed here. Way too many red flags. Time to call it what it is until someone starts doing more than running their mouths to the press that’s more interested in advertising for this guy than asking hard questions.

I think the Legends Tower is all hat and no cattle. I agree on that. But I think the first 3 towers are going to get built. There is enough demand, they will fill quickly. I don't think the supertall will happen. I've said that from the start.

[PhiAlpha]

I think the Legends Tower is all hat and no cattle. I agree on that. But I think the first 3 towers are going to get built. There is enough demand, they will fill quickly. I don't think the supertall will happen. I've said that from the start.

why are you so sure the other three will happen? Demand alone will not get a tower built and the guy behind the project isn’t remotely reputable based on any actual information we’ve found on him.

[bison34]

why are you so sure the other three will happen? Demand alone will not get a tower built and the guy behind the project isn’t remotely reputable based on any actual information we’ve found on him.

Because he has $200 million in essentially free money from the city. I also don't have a bias against him like many on here seem to have. He has gone through many meetings with the city (costing money). Why piss away money if you aren't serious about the project?

It would be one thing if people on here were guarded in their views of him. But basically calling him a grifter and a slime ball. Digging to find any and everything negative they can. Yeah, that shows a bias. Disregarding any and everything that is even remotely positive about him? Yeah, that shows a bias. Even if this doesn't get built, I don't want to have a bias about him, considering I have never met or talked to him.

[jn1780]

Because he has $200 million in essentially free money from the city. I also don't have a bias against him like many on here seem to have. He has gone through many meetings with the city (costing money). Why piss away money if you aren't serious about the project?

It would be one thing if people on here were guarded in their views of him. But basically calling him a grifter and a slime ball. Digging to find any and everything negative they can. Yeah, that shows a bias. Disregarding any and everything that is even remotely positive about him? Yeah, that shows a bias. Even if this doesn't get built, I don't want to have a bias about him, considering I have never met or talked to him.

Only a couple of posters have called him grifter or slime ball. What Pete has done is journalism and pointing out basic flaws in the presented math.

Should we actually define what three towers should look like to call the presented towers as built? It wouldn't surprise me if 'something' gets built.

[bison34]

Only a couple of posters have called him grifter or slime ball. What Pete has done is journalism and pointing out basic flaws in the presented math.

Should we actually define what three towers should look like to call the presented towers as built? It wouldn't surprise me if 'something' gets built.

I agree. But I just think that calling this project out before it is even on deck isn't fully fair. If it doesn't happen, ok. But I don't know if anything so far says it is a certainty to not happen, which is what I take Umbridge with. It just seems like some want it to fail, so they can say "told you so".

I do agree with those who said the Legends Tower talk detracts from the project as a whole.

[PhiAlpha]

Because he has $200 million in essentially free money from the city. I also don't have a bias against him like many on here seem to have. He has gone through many meetings with the city (costing money). Why piss away money if you aren't serious about the project?

It would be one thing if people on here were guarded in their views of him. But basically calling him a grifter and a slime ball. Digging to find any and everything negative they can. Yeah, that shows a bias. Disregarding any and everything that is even remotely positive about him? Yeah, that shows a bias. Even if this doesn't get built, I don't want to have a bias about him, considering I have never met or talked to him.

no one has a bias against him…we’ve all just read everything from Pete and others that wasnt sunshine pumping “journalism” then watched this guy double down by adding another 500 feet to a building that already makes no sense and are now extremely skeptical that he has the funding to pull much, if any, of this off as currently proposed.

[bison34]

no one has a bias against him…we’ve all just read everything from Pete and others that wasnt sunshine pumping “journalism” then watched this guy double down by adding another 500 feet to a building that already makes no sense and are now extremely skeptical that he has the funding to pull much, if any, of this off as currently proposed.

I agree that the Legends Tower talk has distracted and moved all focus from a viable project. Not sure why he did it, but he did. I am not bashing Pete, at all. Just seems that any time anyone has said anything remotely positive about Scot, people have been quick to dispute and bash it down, whereas any negative comments about him are met with resounding agreement and praise.

I am not bashing any of the journalists or those who have done research about this or the developer. Just wish that the narrative wasn't so "this is definitely not happening, no matter what anyone says". Being cautious is one thing, being so Gibraltar is another. That is all I am trying to say.

This may get built, it may not. But nothing so far has said with the certainty that some on here are saying that it won't happen.

[dankrutka]

I agree. But I just think that calling this project out before it is even on deck isn't fully fair. If it doesn't happen, ok.

It’s fully fair to make judgments based on available evidence. Matteson is asking for $200 million from the city. OKC has been harmed numerous times by buying into developers’ pitches who lack credibility. I’d say it’s a dereliction of duty as citizens not to be critical. Hardly anyone is judging Matteson personally. There’s just little evidence suggesting any—much less all—of these towers are likely to actually get built as advertised.

[Ryan]

It’s fully fair to make judgments based on available evidence. Matteson is asking for $200 million from the city. OKC has been harmed numerous times by buying into developers’ pitches who lack credibility. I’d say it’s a dereliction of duty as citizens not to be critical. Hardly anyone is judging Matteson personally. There’s just little evidence suggesting any—much less all—of these towers are likely to actually get built as advertised.

I feel like it bears mentioning okcÂ’s skyline is very sparse even for a city its size., the city is also very vulnerable to scams due to its lack of oversight/ pro business climate. . Not to mention if anything gets built in this climate it would be Oil since itÂ’s $85/barrel right now. The odds are this guy doesnÂ’t have the resources. CanÂ’t get the resources. And when he fails heÂ’ll disappear or claim that itÂ’s not an anti business environment to save face., this is the problem with this type of spec development., you have to build it and they have to profit. This is the same as the sunset theater which id bet a 6 pack of IPA wonÂ’t get built either but I guarantee the developer (matteson too) will make some money off this somehwere

[Lafferty Daniel]

which is what I take Umbridge with.

No need to bring her into this. She is the worst.

[Ryan]

Another thing we don’t have near the educated workforce necessary to support a development like this. And the height is a gimmick. Gimmicks play really well here for some reason

[Rover]

Because he has $200 million in essentially free money from the city. I also don't have a bias against him like many on here seem to have. He has gone through many meetings with the city (costing money). Why piss away money if you aren't serious about the project?

It would be one thing if people on here were guarded in their views of him. But basically calling him a grifter and a slime ball. Digging to find any and everything negative they can. Yeah, that shows a bias. Disregarding any and everything that is even remotely positive about him? Yeah, that shows a bias. Even if this doesn't get built, I don't want to have a bias about him, considering I have never met or talked to him.

So, do your digging and present us with actual verifiable facts that conclude that based on his history this is likely to be built. Don’t use puffy anecdotes but real research and facts. It isn’t bias to report actual information just because it appears negative. It isn’t digging up dirt, it is reporting based on research. Do it for us and convince us there are facts not being reported correctly. If you believe there is another and fairer truth, show us what it is. And don’t just repeat their own pr, but find us facts.

[DoctorTaco]

The math here doesn't come close to adding up.

Here is a project in Nashville with a 34-story hotel and 21-story office tower. The construction cost in 2019 was $540 million; adjusted for today's dollars that would be $654 million. Divide that amount by 55 floors and you get $11.8 million/floor.

https://www.bdcnetwork.com/237-room-...opment?page=31

Closer to home, Devon spent almost a billion in adjusted dollars just for a single 50-story building with some ancillary buildings. That's $19 million per floor. Even 27-story BOK Park Plaza cost $333 million in today's dollars, or $12.3 million per floor. The Omni was over $15 million per floor.


For the Boardwalk, Matteson has stated the budget is $1.5 billion and that's for a total of (3) 34-story buildings plus 134 for Legends Tower. Divide 1.5 billion by 236 total floors and you get $6.4 million per floor. And that's in today's dollars, not including inflation by the time all this is complete in 4-5 years, at best.

So, Matteson is saying he can build for half the price of recent comparable projects and do it while constructing the tallest building in the U.S., which is significantly more expensive than any 30-story building.

Another reference point: OKC just budgeted $1 billion just for a new arena. But Matteson is going to build the tallest building in the country plus three more 34-story towers and everything else a block away for merely 50% more.


Also, every previous project he is claiming was through Centurian Partners, not him personally. We have no idea what stake he held in Centurian or what stake Centurian had in any of these completed projects. What we do know is he tried to do something on his own with Quicksilver Hotels and made a bunch of bold promises that completely collapsed. He has done absolutely nothing in his own name or in that of the newly-formed Matteson Capital; Centurian Capital seems to have dissolved.

I did find that a few years ago he was served with legal papers and was living in an apartment in Orange County. There was also the GoFundMe thing for his medical bills and that was in 2019.


Maybe he's raised a ton of money and maybe he'll be able to pull off some or all of this project. But thus far, there has been no hard evidence (i.e. not just his own claims) that would suggest he has anywhere near the wherewithal to get this done. And his budget for the Boardwalk is nowhere close to reality; rather than $1.5 billion he's going to need somewhere between $3-5 billion.

Saddest thing, to me, is that we had a pretty cool project here and now, even if the realistic portion of this gets done (still a big IF), the porject will seem like a failure to the general public since the supertall won't get built. And that leaves aside the nationwide laughing-stock matter. I still lol at Midland's skyscraper plan from 10 years ago.