Lexford Park (formerly First Christian Church)

[GoGators]

Saying that Pei was a world class architect and also missed the mark with his urban plan for okc can both be true at the same time.

[Rover]

Saying that Pei was a world class architect and also missed the mark with his urban plan for okc can both be true at the same time.

He didn’t plan to tear it all down without resources to build it back.

[bombermwc]

To blame Pei is absurd and lacks understanding and context. As one of the world’s greatest architects and developer he was hired to do a job and did it. Failure to execute is all onOKc officials and the changes in federal government resources and plans of urban renewal.

I once was at a family gathering attended by an in-law who was an nfl QB at the time. He was playing with the kids in the backyard as they all wanted to catch passes from him. Guess who the kids blamed when they didn’t catch the pass. lol. That’s what the okc kids do… blame Pei for their clumsiness and lack of ability to execute the simplest of plans.

Incorrect, same to The Travelers. The city leadership at that time, basically did give him that authority. Did he have it directly? No. But what Pei said, they did with very little questioning. If Pei said "condemn this lot", they did it. So it's misleading to say that just because he didn't have direct control of the city, that he wasn't such a major influence, that they so heavily relied on him for their decision making that he wasn't given a magic wand. Pei was far more than just an architect. Urban renewal is more than just throwing grand ideas on a model and walking away. And it's a gross misrepresentation of the events if you minimize Pei's influence.

He did design some fantastic structures over his career. OKC just happens to be one of those pieces of his career that did not live up to his promises.

[GoGators]

He didn’t plan to tear it all down without resources to build it back.

The plan was completely flawed from the beginning. If you look at Pei's actual plan for OKC it's basically just an instruction book on what not to do to create a successful city center. It is a long list that includes a lot more than just demolishing a large portion of the existing buildings. From creating superblocks and proposing interior malls, to changing downtown streets to one way traffic, the plan was destined to fail from day one.

[TheTravellers]

Incorrect, same to The Travelers. The city leadership at that time, basically did give him that authority. Did he have it directly? No. But what Pei said, they did with very little questioning. If Pei said "condemn this lot", they did it. So it's misleading to say that just because he didn't have direct control of the city, that he wasn't such a major influence, that they so heavily relied on him for their decision making that he wasn't given a magic wand. Pei was far more than just an architect. Urban renewal is more than just throwing grand ideas on a model and walking away. And it's a gross misrepresentation of the events if you minimize Pei's influence.

He did design some fantastic structures over his career. OKC just happens to be one of those pieces of his career that did not live up to his promises.

You just don't get it. Yes, he said "do this", but he also said "do this, *then* do that" and he had no control over them following up and doing "that", which they never did. He had influence, but nothing more than that, it was left to OKC to IMPLEMENT (or not, as the case ended up) his ideas, and even if it could be considered a flawed plan, it was never fully IMPLEMENTED.

[billokc]

I have some info regarding the church. My family had been members for many decades, and my sister and her in-laws were members as well. She and her husband had been part of those that helped in the operation of the church. The problem was the lack of money due to factors such as many folks moving away from the area, the aging (and dying) of members, combined with the rising overall costs of maintenance.

In the past couple of days I had a conversation with her regarding all this. Church membership had been slowly dropping for many years. Utility costs were so high every month, especially the heat/air and the electricity, the decision was made to move all the activities to the Youth Center behind the main building, and leave it locked up.

Selling the building had its own issues. Not only would the property and the building price be high, but because the build had been built in the '50's, it would have to be brought up to current code for plumbing and electrical issues. But that's not all. During the original construction, asbestos was used all over the building, particularly the section with the metal shades (called the Education Center). So the costs of bringing it all up to code plus the asbestos removal would have been astronomical for any prospective buyer making it not worth it. I got the impression that's there's more to it than what she told me, but I didn't press for it. I did go over there and grab a few pics of the interior now that the sanctuary (the Egg Dome) is gone.

[bombermwc]

You just don't get it. Yes, he said "do this", but he also said "do this, *then* do that" and he had no control over them following up and doing "that", which they never did. He had influence, but nothing more than that, it was left to OKC to IMPLEMENT (or not, as the case ended up) his ideas, and even if it could be considered a flawed plan, it was never fully IMPLEMENTED.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the amount of his influence.

[Pete]

As of this morning, the rest of this complex has been flattened, including the round office building (center) and the small round structure (right) that was formerly home to Jewel Box theater. Photo taken 10/2/22; too depressed to take a new one.

[barrettd]

As of this morning, the rest of this complex has been flattened, including the round office building (center) and the small round structure (right) that was formerly home to Jewel Box theater. Photo taken 10/2/22; too depressed to take a new one.

I was out there this morning as they brought down the Jewel Box. Got to see a lot of faces I hadn't seen in a while. It was a sad affair, and we all just kept saying we never thought we'd see this day. There was a drone operator out there, and I thought it might have been you Pete. I was this close to introducing myself but I have no idea what you look like and didn't want to be weird

[Pete]

I was out there this morning as they brought down the Jewel Box. Got to see a lot of faces I hadn't seen in a while. It was a sad affair, and we all just kept saying we never thought we'd see this day. There was a drone operator out there, and I thought it might have been you Pete. I was this close to introducing myself but I have no idea what you look like and didn't want to be weird

Ha! It wasn't me but I did see it going down.

[Bowser214]

Egg Shaped Christian Church site will be developed into housing.

Developer Ron Bradshaw is under contract to buy the former First Christian Church campus and is planning to convert the property into housing.

Source NewsOK
Check out this article from The Oklahoman:

Property once home to egg-shaped First Christian Church will get new life as housing

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news...g/72513828007/

[Pete]

129 residential lots on 31.5 acres

I know this will make the neighbors happy but feels like a big missed opportunity

[The]

129 residential lots on 31.5 acres

I know this will make the neighbors happy but feels like a big missed opportunity

Definitely.

[David]

At least there's going to be some townhomes but it's a shame it isn't a more dense plan.

Maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised by the site design.

[LocoAko]

For anyone who can't read the article, it sounds like the intention is to preserve 14 of the 32 acres for greenspace and the brook that runs through there. So the 129 homes would go on 18 acres, for an overall ~7 du/acre. Proposed townhomes toward NW 36th and Walker. That's a bit denser than the homes north of Crown Heights Park but solidly denser than the homes immediately to the north of this property. I still think it is a missed opportunity for something more mixed- and higher-use, but it sounds like there was (unsurprisingly) already rumors and resistance in the neighborhood to that sort of plan.

[Pete]

^

Almost any development of this size has to set aside good chunks for water flow and retention and that was always a given here due to the topography.

The developer might like to characterize this as "preservation" but the reality is that it was always going to be necessary as any previous concepts for this site have shown.


Nothing against Ron Bradshaw or his plans, but this is another one of those articles that only includes what the developer wants printed.

I've mentioned this several times before, but when you see a developer go to the Oklahoman in advance of planning documents being filed (which they mention is to happen next week), it's to get out ahead of the news and get something in the press that promotes their agenda.

[john60]

129 residential lots on 31.5 acres

I know this will make the neighbors happy but feels like a big missed opportunity

Why do you think it is a missed opportunity? The previous plans (I think Humphreys) with more density were shot down, right?

[Pete]

Why do you think it is a missed opportunity? The previous plans (I think Humphreys) with more density were shot down, right?

There are lots of gradients between the quite dense Grant Humphreys proposal (17 years ago) and the equivalent of 1/4 acre residential lots with zero commercial.

It's a gorgeous, large property near the core that will now be not much different than a housing tract in Edmond.


And BTW, I don't believe the Humphreys proposal was ever shot down. I think it was more the case of him not electing to close on the property due to the vocal opposition of nearby homeowners after he reached out to them.

[Pete]

BTW, the northeast corner of NW 36th and Walker (part of this tract) is zoned commercial which is not surprising given the amount of commercial and industrial that exists on NW 36th.

The rest is zoned R-1 so this Bradshaw development may not need to even rezone and thus completely bypass the need to placate the surrounding homeowners.


They will probably file for a SPUD but then can also argue on their own behalf: we are essentially following the zoning that has been in place for decades. And if the SPUD approval goes south, they can probably still execute their plan under the existing zoning.

[SagerMichael]

It’ll be interesting to see 129 new homes sandwiched right in the middle of some of the most desirable single family home stock in the metro. You have to assume they’ll be well designed to fit within the area and not a suburban style neighborhood

[TheTravellers]

It’ll be interesting to see 129 new homes sandwiched right in the middle of some of the most desirable single family home stock in the metro. You have to hope they’ll be well designed to fit within the area and not a suburban style neighborhood

fify

[Pete]

Given the expense of the land and only 129 homes, the houses are likely to be quite expensive to recoup sunk costs.

I bet nothing in this development will be less than $1 million by the time they hit the market.

If there are some townhomes, maybe you sneak in under $900K.

[seaofchange]

Gah, this is such a bummer. I live in this neighborhood and was really hoping for an awesome mixed use development.

[Oski]

Gah, this is such a bummer. I live in this neighborhood and was really hoping for an awesome mixed use development.

They could have developed a pretty cool mixed use around the old buildings but there wasn't enough vision, passion, and money.

[Pete]

What's hard to understand unless you've actually hiked through this property is that the only place where there are bordering homes -- a total of 17 along the north side -- there is a significant creek with large trees on both sides. And those homes all have large, deep lots.

So, even if you walk along the creek, you don't even see the homes, which means they couldn't see anything that would be built on this property -- unless you are talking about 5+ story buildings situated close to the creek.