University Town Center

[macfoucin]

Norman Development FB page is reporting a P.F. Chang's has file permits to build just South of the Brockhaus Jewelry being built.

[SEMIweather]

The LNC is sold out for the Texas Tech game today, checked the box office on my way in and all they still had available was limited standing room tickets.

[Jersey Boss]

Very well might happen. If the people of Norman tell their council member to vote no then it won't happen. The Mayor sure wants it to happen so I guess we see how it goes. Not sure when the final vote is going to happen.

Probably after Feb. Ward elections

[Jersey Boss]

okay. and some of us aren't... that arena is literally falling apart and probably won't make it another 20 years. i don't want to become the laughing stock of D1 basketball because we are playing in a place that is falling apart just because some people think the arena size needs to be set for the numbers that are only met like 6 time a year.

I don't get the concept that the Norman citizens are supposed to chip in on a facility whose primary purpose is for University athletics. Stitt is talking budget surplus, LNC renovations were put off for 30 years and now Norman is supposed to finance. maintain, provide infrastructure and the cops for security?
And the voters are just to take the word of politicians that OU doesn't have the money?

[Jersey Boss]

Again, we all would like the arena to be on campus. The reality is Lloyd Noble in the current state or the UNP new arena. OU isn't going to invest in a new on campus basketball arena anytime soon.

If OU isn't going to invest in their University facilities why should Norman citizens?

[bison34]

If OU isn't going to invest in their University facilities why should Norman citizens?

OU is investing at UNP - just isn't on-campus, so apparently that means no OU money or resources are flowing.

[The]

..

[Rover]

OU is investing at UNP - just isn't on-campus, so apparently that means no OU money or resources are flowing.

I believe the UNP ground is owned by OU isn't it?

[Jersey Boss]

I believe the UNP ground is owned by OU isn't it?

Which negates the arguement this is worthy of a TIF to develop a blighted area. Sure the area is under developed and not productive but isn't that by design of the present owners?

[Rover]

Which negates the arguement this is worthy of a TIF to develop a blighted area. Sure the area is under developed and not productive but isn't that by design of the present owners?

No, it isn’t. And a tif isn’t just for blighted areas.

[PhiAlpha]

Agree wholeheartedly. Also, the student section was jam-packed and loud tonight. That being said, while I accept that I may be fighting a losing battle trying to convince people that it's shortsighted to build a new arena 5 miles northwest of campus, what I can't abide by is the possibility that they're actually going to build a new arena with only an 8k capacity. Anything less than 10k is going to be woefully insufficient. Especially given that the layout of a new arena will be such that crowds of 5k to 7k for non-conference games and/or losing seasons won't look arrestingly empty on TV like they do at the LNC.

How did all the students get to LNC for the game? Did they walk or drive?

[PhiAlpha]

As one of the 11k there all I can say is "imagine that". No restaurants or bars to walk to and an aging facility. A winning program is what fills the seats not an entertainment district.

We’ve had a winning program for years. Attendance for a rivalry game or some weekend games has never been a problem when the team is winning. Having things to do around the arena would undoubtedly help get people there for cold weekday nights that aren’t marquee matchups and when the team is mediocre. You know what else would’ve been nice? Not having to wait an additional 30-40 minutes in traffic to make it from the north side of Norman down to LNC after already being stuck for an hour when trying to make a game after work from downtown (granted the weather had an impact on Tuesday but rush hour between OKC and Norman is no joke when trying to make a 6:00 tip)..

People who don’t live in Norman like going to the games too and the bulk of people who may be donors to build the new on campus stadium every one wants are more than likely driving in from work downtown or are otherwise coming from the pool of the million plus people that have to take I-35 if they wish to attend an OU basketball game. Getting them more engaged at the cost of a 3 minute longer drive for students (most of whom don’t live on campus anyway) seems to be worth it, especially when you consider the alternative of playing in the dump that is LNC indefinitely. I, for one, am tired of feeling like I’m watching a basketball game in the rose bowl regardless of the other inconveniences. The early weekday games would be a lot easier to make if they weren’t essentially in the middle of no where on the southeast side of Norman and LNC is a joke of a college basketball arena. The fact that anyone is arguing against this, when it is literally the only option that involves not staying in that dump indefinitely, is asinine.

And on the capacity debate…when the alternative is staying at LNC forever or wasting more money on it…who cares? It would be better to be in the 9000-10000 range but an 8,000 seat arena would ensure that the arena was packed all the time, provide a better game atmosphere all the time and make it a hotter ticket. For the big games that we actually sell out LNC…season ticket holders and student season ticket holders get rewarded for their consistent support (they get to go to the game or sell their ticket for a profit) and everyone else has to fight for a ticket or watch it on tv…again, I’m unclear on the reasoning behind why that’s less preferable than resigning ourselves to a ****ty atmosphere 95% of the time for the next 20-40 years.

[Jersey Boss]

Yesterday attendance for non rivalry game was 10,980

[PhiAlpha]

Yesterday attendance for non rivalry game was 10,980

Correct. That was one of the qualifiers I used but you conveniently ignored the 4 words after rivalry game. What was the second qualifier I listed? Hint…it has to do with the game being on a Saturday.

[Jersey Boss]

Correct. That was one of the qualifiers I used but you conveniently ignored the 4 words after rivalry game. What was the second qualifier I listed? Hint…it has to do with the game being on a Saturday.

What % of the games are non rivalry, week night games starting before 8?

Sure OU is the driver here and consequently should be paying 100 % for the facility. If OU wants to sub let for HS games or concerts they can realize the profit. I do not take as an article of faith that OU and the move and shakers that are Regents and the Foundation have done everything to secure the financing. Had the University been using the LNC for concerts and such the last 20 years the LNC would be in better shape today

[PhiAlpha]

What % of the games are non rivalry, week night games starting before 8?

Sure OU is the driver here and consequently should be paying 100 % for the facility. If OU wants to sub let for HS games or concerts they can realize the profit. I do not take as an article of faith that OU and the move and shakers that are Regents and the Foundation have done everything to secure the financing. Had the University been using the LNC for concerts and such the last 20 years the LNC would be in better shape today

.

Better question: since I said SOME weekend games and never said that weekday games before 8 PM were the only weekday games that a location in north park would benefit…. For what percentage of games is turnstyle attendance over 8,500?

I can’t find the per game stats but right now…even with the large crowds for 3 games…average attendance is just over 7000 and this is probably the best team we’ve had since Krueger left.

[Jersey Boss]

At the end of the day we are both fans and grads of OU. We each prioritize different things as relating to gameday and location. As the saying goes, "it is what it is".

[PhiAlpha]

At the end of the day we are both fans and grads of OU. We each prioritize different things as relating to gameday and location. As the saying goes, "it is what it is".

Sure but either way it’s hard not to argue that a better and more consistent in-game atmosphere would be beneficial to the program. I’m not sure how you can argue that averaging 4,500 empty seats (and average attendance is up by at least 1000 this year) in a cavern of a stadium with LNC’s seating arrangement is conducive to providing that type of atmosphere. LNC and its location are a direct cause of those 4,500 empty seats. I’m not sure this program or the popularity of college basketball in Oklahoma are ever going to be at a place again in which LNC will average over 8,500 fans and at least according to people in the program…LNC is hurting recruiting so it’s going to be a ruthless cycle until that issue is fixed. A subpar program hurts donations and lack of donations will create a subpar program. Something has to change quickly.

[BimmerSooner]

Norman Development Facebook page is reporting that permits have been filed for the P.F. Chang's on the parcel near Crest. Sorry if it's already been mentioned elsewhere.

[BG918]

Sure but either way it’s hard not to argue that a better and more consistent in-game atmosphere would be beneficial to the program. I’m not sure how you can argue that averaging 4,500 empty seats (and average attendance is up by at least 1000 this year) in a cavern of a stadium with LNC’s seating arrangement is conducive to providing that type of atmosphere. LNC and its location are a direct cause of those 4,500 empty seats. I’m not sure this program or the popularity of college basketball in Oklahoma are ever going to be at a place again in which LNC will average over 8,500 fans and at least according to people in the program…LNC is hurting recruiting so it’s going to be a ruthless cycle until that issue is fixed. A subpar program hurts donations and lack of donations will create a subpar program. Something has to change quickly.

Especially when OU’s primary rival, Texas, has a brand new arena that is the envy of college basketball nationwide. And half the SEC has either new or substantially renovated arenas. I say look at Auburn as a great example of what OU could do with a new arena built on-campus - that alone has elevated that program and they have one of the better fan environments in the conference.

[bison34]

Especially when OU’s primary rival, Texas, has a brand new arena that is the envy of college basketball nationwide. And half the SEC has either new or substantially renovated arenas. I say look at Auburn as a great example of what OU could do with a new arena built on-campus - that alone has elevated that program and they have one of the better fan environments in the conference.

Where would they build this arena on-campus? �� there isn't anywhere truly large enough to support one on-campus.

[FighttheGoodFight]

Especially when OU’s primary rival, Texas, has a brand new arena that is the envy of college basketball nationwide. And half the SEC has either new or substantially renovated arenas. I say look at Auburn as a great example of what OU could do with a new arena built on-campus - that alone has elevated that program and they have one of the better fan environments in the conference.

I know OU had to upgrade some fields (baseball) for the new SEC rules. I wonder if they have rules for basketball that might be playing into this?

[_Cramer_]

My wish is for it to be built on campus near Brooks and Jenkins (red square in photo). I would estimate 7,500-8,500 seats. This would require the loss of parking and extra need in order to make up for football and basketball game days. In order to make up for this, I recommend two garages (white boxes) on Brooks and one on Trout. I recommend four stories for both with base level to include retail/commercial space.

With the move to central campus, I don't think you need as many parking spaces because students won't need spaces. I believe an estimate of 3,250 spaces (1,000 and 2,250) between the two garages. Parking can be a part of season ticket packages for football and basketball to increase revenue and pay for the garages. That pre-fab cast concrete is going to be expensive!

Total project cost estimate: $335 mill

Attachment 18582

Am I off with my estimate? Don't you agree this could happen here? As a Norman native, I hate seeing the proposed move to University Town Center.

Where would they build this arena on-campus? �� there isn't anywhere truly large enough to support one on-campus.

I replied with my ideal location (Post #1688) for an on-campus arena. The problem is funding. The University alone doesn't have the funding for it. This is why they are relying on the city to assist.

[G.Walker]

So does this mean they are closing the Pei Wei in the same area? They are one in the same pretty much. I know PF Chang's is a little fancier. But they are owned by the same company.

I am still waiting for them to get a Cheesecake Factory down this way please, lol.

[PhiAlpha]

So does this mean they are closing the Pei Wei in the same area? They are one in the same pretty much. I know PF Chang's is a little fancier. But they are owned by the same company.

I am still waiting for them to get a Cheesecake Factory down this way please, lol.

They are no longer owned by the same parent company:

At the end of 2017, Pei Wei announced its separation from parent company, P.F. Chang's China Bistro. This separation would lead the company to undergo a slight name change, as well as the relocation of its headquarters from Scottsdale to Irving, Texas.^[27]As a part of their separation from P.F. Chang's, Pei Wei undertook a major rebranding campaign by hiring a new creative agency to revitalize the brand by replacing the company's longtime logo with the new tiger logo and to officially change the trading name of the business to Pei Wei Asian Kitchen in February 2018.^[1]
On June 5, 2019, Pei Wei was sold to PWD Acquisition LLC.^[28]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pei_Wei_Asian_Diner