New Downtown Arena

[BoulderSooner]

Obviously not on the ballot. This is from State of the City:

do you view the okc Convention center as Iconic because all i see is a promise it will be to that standard ..

[Oski]

Originally Posted by Mayor David Holt
"The architectural ambitions of this new arena will exceed anything our residents have ever experienced. Remember the pride you felt seeing this convention center or Scissortail Park for the first time? This arena will meet that standard, and finally people will stand outside of our arena and marvel. This building will make a statement that we are truly prepared to be a top 20 city. And we are committed to using this arena to tell our city’s story and the story of its people. This won’t be a cookie cutter arena. This will be uniquely ours. The same thoughtfulness and care that the Thunder models in its community work will be reflected in this building.

The bar will also be raised inside the building. Obviously, the..."

In my view, Devon Tower and Myriad Gardens stand out as the sole world-class in terms of architecture. While Scissortail Park and the convention center are acceptable, I find the Omni and the new coliseum at OKC Fairgrounds rather uninspiring. While budget constraints are a factor, skilled architects can elevate design, and the public's taste plays a crucial role in determining the architectural standards that distinguish cities.

[Rover]

Idk if you’ve seen Ed Bassmaster on YouTube but I’ll inmate him and when I finally visit the bean I’ll walk around like a macho man and tell people I Chicago “psh, I’m not impressed at all. We got way better stuff than this in OKC my man.”

I once took a friend with me on a business trip to Lyon, France. I thought he would appreciate a weekend touring the incredible wine region, so I took him. After about two hours in incredible scenery and stopping at famous wineries, he stated that Arkansas wine region was better. I turned the car around and took him back to the hotel.

Years later he admitted that it wasn’t a very astute observation. Sometimes we favor the familiar things over the truly great things. But you have to know, and maybe experienced the difference to make a wise observation.


Everyone has an opinion, but not everyone has a design sense or appreciation of context.

[Bellaboo]

I talked to Mayor Holt at the Grizzly game a couple nights ago. Briefly only about the arena vote, should have brought up the new arena though.

[Rover]

In my view, Devon Tower and Myriad Gardens stand out as the sole world-class in terms of architecture. While Scissortail Park and the convention center are acceptable, I find the Omni and the new coliseum at OKC Fairgrounds rather uninspiring. While budget constraints are a factor, skilled architects can elevate design, and the public's taste plays a crucial role in determining the architectural standards that distinguish cities.

The public taste level rarely is the design basis. Budgets, state of technology, other regional or local design influences, site selection, nearby assets (buildings, landscape, etc), use parameters, environment, etc. drive it much more. Trying to be iconic among the buildings in Singapore is way different than being locally or regionally iconic in OKC.

[Laramie]

The MAPS brand and its momentum continue to strengthen its hold on Oklahoma City. What's next:

A 900 feet high Space Tower (Taller than the 844' Devon Tower).
A 75,000 seat Retractable Roof Multipurpose Stadium.
A 1,000 room luxury hotel or a 605 room twin next to the 605 room Omni Hotel.
A lure of a large corporate giant HQ to Oklahoma City.

Any suggestions for the next MAPS extension beyond the new billion dollar arena.

[jdross1982]

The MAPS brand and its momentum continue to strengthen its hold on Oklahoma City. What's next:

A 900 feet high Space Tower (Taller than the 844' Devon Tower).
A 75,000 seat Retractable Roof Multipurpose Stadium.
A 1,000 room luxury hotel or a 605 room twin next to the 605 room Omni Hotel.
A lure of a large corporate giant HQ to Oklahoma City.

Any suggestions for the next MAPS extension beyond the new billion dollar arena.

Further infill reducing the surface parking lots throughout downtown and bricktown and surrounding the park.

[SouthOKC]

The MAPS brand and its momentum continue to strengthen its hold on Oklahoma City. What's next:

A 900 feet high Space Tower (Taller than the 844' Devon Tower).
A 75,000 seat Retractable Roof Multipurpose Stadium
A 1,000 room luxury hotel or a 605 room twin next to the 605 room Omni Hotel

Any suggestions for the next MAPS extension beyond Paycom Center arena.

This would be my wish list:

1. Public Mobility: Large commitment to public transportation. With a major focus specifically on making the core easy to traverse by bus, bike, streetcar, etc... Linking up to a light rail connecting Norman/OKC
2. Reasons for mobility: Connectivity to the various districts and investment (art installations ,signage, placemaking) in those districts: medical district, capitol hill (Hispanic heritage), asian district, 23rd street, Plaza district, Nichols hills, riverwalk area.
3. Tourism: Okana>Riverwalk>Downtown>23rd>Adventure District. I would love to see OKC build a "world class" children's museum by expanding the omniplex. This is a undervalued opportunity in my opinion! 6 miles of linear distance from some of OKC's top destinations. Now that we've invested in our citizens quality of life let's put some emphasis on bring in tourism revenue to aid in the upkeep and future development.

[citywokchinesefood]

Further infill reducing the surface parking lots throughout downtown and bricktown and surrounding the park.

That would require some local developers to actually get off their ass and build. Why would they do that when they can just operate an illegal paid parking lot and see no consequences for their actions? Capital costs and labor shortages are only going up. We are currently seeing the largest retirement of skilled labor in American history. For the Boomers that planned for retirement as a cohort they are moving from being the biggest source of capital and labor in our economy to expenditures that are more tied to medical expenses and living off a fixed retirement income. GenX and Millennials do not have the same level of opportunity, wealth, and financial independence that the Boomers were able to enjoy. Our ability to get things done quickly and efficiently is going to diminish for at least the next twenty years without some major innovations in multiple different spaces. I honestly would not be surprised to see the majority of empty lots that are currently downtown to still be underdeveloped 20 years from now. I hope I am wrong, but when you consider the demography of the United States and historic trends it doesn't look bad, but it is not all sunshine either. MAPS is not the vehicle to infill downtown OKC. The stakeholders that own property right now need to be encouraged to develop or sell to others that have the capital to develop. That is the only real way we are going to see any meaningful progress on infill in the CBD and surrounding areas.

[Anonymous.]

The MAPS brand and its momentum continue to strengthen its hold on Oklahoma City. What's next:

A 900 feet high Space Tower (Taller than the 844' Devon Tower).
A 75,000 seat Retractable Roof Multipurpose Stadium.
A 1,000 room luxury hotel or a 605 room twin next to the 605 room Omni Hotel.
A lure of a large corporate giant HQ to Oklahoma City.

Any suggestions for the next MAPS extension beyond the new billion dollar arena.

I could see the Boathouse District/Riversport area getting some MAPS love due to tourism increases from the Olympic events exposure.

[Dob Hooligan]

That would require some local developers to actually get off their ass and build. Why would they do that when they can just operate an illegal paid parking lot and see no consequences for their actions? Capital costs and labor shortages are only going up. We are currently seeing the largest retirement of skilled labor in American history. For the Boomers that planned for retirement as a cohort they are moving from being the biggest source of capital and labor in our economy to expenditures that are more tied to medical expenses and living off a fixed retirement income. GenX and Millennials do not have the same level of opportunity, wealth, and financial independence that the Boomers were able to enjoy. Our ability to get things done quickly and efficiently is going to diminish for at least the next twenty years without some major innovations in multiple different spaces. I honestly would not be surprised to see the majority of empty lots that are currently downtown to still be underdeveloped 20 years from now. I hope I am wrong, but when you consider the demography of the United States and historic trends it doesn't look bad, but it is not all sunshine either. MAPS is not the vehicle to infill downtown OKC. The stakeholders that own property right now need to be encouraged to develop or sell to others that have the capital to develop. That is the only real way we are going to see any meaningful progress on infill in the CBD and surrounding areas.

I think surface parking lots will be built on when it makes financial sense, and the need for new building is greater than the value of the surface lots. OKC doesn't have need at this time. I think people complain about surface parking all across America, but they serve a purpose. We may complain about cars, but they are the main mode of transportation in America generally, and OKC specifically. Now, and for the lifetime of anyone reading this.

Boomers complained about the Greatest Generation retiring with a bunch of money and taking away all the opportunities for the boomer generation.

IMO the only thing the "skilled labor shortage" has done in the US is make the pay higher for those jobs. Getting the blue collar earning power closer to what it was before the international migration of manufacturing jobs that started in the 1970s. When the money gets good enough, then people will gain the skill.

[Rover]

That would require some local developers to actually get off their ass and build. Why would they do that when they can just operate an illegal paid parking lot and see no consequences for their actions? Capital costs and labor shortages are only going up. We are currently seeing the largest retirement of skilled labor in American history. For the Boomers that planned for retirement as a cohort they are moving from being the biggest source of capital and labor in our economy to expenditures that are more tied to medical expenses and living off a fixed retirement income. GenX and Millennials do not have the same level of opportunity, wealth, and financial independence that the Boomers were able to enjoy. Our ability to get things done quickly and efficiently is going to diminish for at least the next twenty years without some major innovations in multiple different spaces. I honestly would not be surprised to see the majority of empty lots that are currently downtown to still be underdeveloped 20 years from now. I hope I am wrong, but when you consider the demography of the United States and historic trends it doesn't look bad, but it is not all sunshine either. MAPS is not the vehicle to infill downtown OKC. The stakeholders that own property right now need to be encouraged to develop or sell to others that have the capital to develop. That is the only real way we are going to see any meaningful progress on infill in the CBD and surrounding areas.

Maybe the subject of a new thread where posters here can identify where they think is a specific piece of property that should be developed, decide what type of development, and what the actual financial prospects would be. It is really easy for people to demand development if they have no skin in the game and don’t have to think about risk, total costs, profitability, etc. Let’s see some thought out analysis and not pie in the sky demands for private companies.

[Rover]

BTW, generations need to compare their relative opportunities under the context of similar times in their lives, not starting out where others worked to get to. The implication is that it was easy and a smooth road for those who came before us is just wrong.

[Teo9969]

do you view the okc Convention center as Iconic because all i see is a promise it will be to that standard ..

At the risk of this harkening back to election talk, I'll refrain from additional comment. Ultimately, the public expects something head turning that is instantly recognizable as OKC

[soonerguru]

Hey, I’m all for it. And I trust the mayor.

Ditto. What substantive reasons do our citizens have to be angry at the mayor or city with how they've handled previous projects?

The convention center turned out way better than I hoped.

While I bemoan the lack of mature trees, the park is a hit.

People may not care for the streetcar route but it was done well and on budget.

The ballpark needed a little more $ but turned out great.

The canal was done very well also; it's just a bit of a shame that private sector investment hasn't been the best or most imaginative.

Other cities are absolutely riddled with corruption and failure. OKC has given me little to no reason to doubt its ability to manage these projects and manage them well.

As for the arena, I don't care if it's "iconic." As stated above, people would argue about what that is anyway. I just want something that is first class and meets the needs of OKC for decades, for both NBA basketball as well as concerts. I will be paying particular attention to what they do to make this a better concert venue. We didn't just vote for a Thunder home, we voted for a new facility for sought-after concerts. I will use what limited influence I have as a citizen to make sure that part doesn't get scuttled.

[BoulderSooner]

At the risk of this harkening back to election talk, I'll refrain from additional comment. Ultimately, the public expects something head turning that is instantly recognizable as OKC

the "public" expects one of the best arenas in the NBA .... period ..

[BoulderSooner]

As for the arena, I don't care if it's "iconic." As stated above, people would argue about what that is anyway. I just want something that is first class and meets the needs of OKC for decades, for both NBA basketball as well as concerts. I will be paying particular attention to what they do to make this a better concert venue. We didn't just vote for a Thunder home, we voted for a new facility for sought-after concerts. I will use what limited influence I have as a citizen to make sure that part doesn't get scuttled.

this is very well said

[Tyson]

Ditto. What substantive reasons do our citizens have to be angry at the mayor or city with how they've handled previous projects?

The convention center turned out way better than I hoped.

While I bemoan the lack of mature trees, the park is a hit.

People may not care for the streetcar route but it was done well and on budget.

The ballpark needed a little more $ but turned out great.

The canal was done very well also; it's just a bit of a shame that private sector investment hasn't been the best or most imaginative.

Other cities are absolutely riddled with corruption and failure. OKC has given me little to no reason to doubt its ability to manage these projects and manage them well.

As for the arena, I don't care if it's "iconic." As stated above, people would argue about what that is anyway. I just want something that is first class and meets the needs of OKC for decades, for both NBA basketball as well as concerts. I will be paying particular attention to what they do to make this a better concert venue. We didn't just vote for a Thunder home, we voted for a new facility for sought-after concerts. I will use what limited influence I have as a citizen to make sure that part doesn't get scuttled.

You got some intense head nods from me while reading this.

[gopokes88]

Ditto. What substantive reasons do our citizens have to be angry at the mayor or city with how they've handled previous projects?

The convention center turned out way better than I hoped.

While I bemoan the lack of mature trees, the park is a hit.

People may not care for the streetcar route but it was done well and on budget.

The ballpark needed a little more $ but turned out great.

The canal was done very well also; it's just a bit of a shame that private sector investment hasn't been the best or most imaginative.

Other cities are absolutely riddled with corruption and failure. OKC has given me little to no reason to doubt its ability to manage these projects and manage them well.

As for the arena, I don't care if it's "iconic." As stated above, people would argue about what that is anyway. I just want something that is first class and meets the needs of OKC for decades, for both NBA basketball as well as concerts. I will be paying particular attention to what they do to make this a better concert venue. We didn't just vote for a Thunder home, we voted for a new facility for sought-after concerts. I will use what limited influence I have as a citizen to make sure that part doesn't get scuttled.

This is an outstanding post. Outstanding.

[warreng88]

Anyone talking about surface parking in DT OKC, I think, is going be surprised how much changes in the next five years. If the arena gets built on the Myriad site, Bob Howard & co will develop the lots to the west of the arena. The old arena will be torn down and redeveloped and I don't think it will be another surface lot. If the new arena is built on the REHCO lots to the west, the Myriad will be torn down as a land swap to Bob Howard & co and be redeveloped. Old arena will be torn down and redeveloped. At least, this is my understanding from talking to people who would be in the know...

We are starting to see a lot of surface lots taken out and redeveloped and that is only going to continue. DREAM, Phillips Murrah, The Citizen, 1204 N Hudson (Pivot office building), Alley's end (some day), Convergence, just to name a few.

[Urbanized]

the "public" expects one of the best arenas in the NBA .... period ..

For sure. And we will get that.

[warreng88]

Ditto. What substantive reasons do our citizens have to be angry at the mayor or city with how they've handled previous projects?

The convention center turned out way better than I hoped.

While I bemoan the lack of mature trees, the park is a hit.

People may not care for the streetcar route but it was done well and on budget.

The ballpark needed a little more $ but turned out great.

The canal was done very well also; it's just a bit of a shame that private sector investment hasn't been the best or most imaginative.

Other cities are absolutely riddled with corruption and failure. OKC has given me little to no reason to doubt its ability to manage these projects and manage them well.

As for the arena, I don't care if it's "iconic." As stated above, people would argue about what that is anyway. I just want something that is first class and meets the needs of OKC for decades, for both NBA basketball as well as concerts. I will be paying particular attention to what they do to make this a better concert venue. We didn't just vote for a Thunder home, we voted for a new facility for sought-after concerts. I will use what limited influence I have as a citizen to make sure that part doesn't get scuttled.

Mark my words and go to social media when the renderings come out for the new arena next year and there will be a ton of people who hate it and people who love it. It won't be universally loved just like anything else.

[jdross1982]

That would require some local developers to actually get off their ass and build. Why would they do that when they can just operate an illegal paid parking lot and see no consequences for their actions? Capital costs and labor shortages are only going up. We are currently seeing the largest retirement of skilled labor in American history. For the Boomers that planned for retirement as a cohort they are moving from being the biggest source of capital and labor in our economy to expenditures that are more tied to medical expenses and living off a fixed retirement income. GenX and Millennials do not have the same level of opportunity, wealth, and financial independence that the Boomers were able to enjoy. Our ability to get things done quickly and efficiently is going to diminish for at least the next twenty years without some major innovations in multiple different spaces. I honestly would not be surprised to see the majority of empty lots that are currently downtown to still be underdeveloped 20 years from now. I hope I am wrong, but when you consider the demography of the United States and historic trends it doesn't look bad, but it is not all sunshine either. MAPS is not the vehicle to infill downtown OKC. The stakeholders that own property right now need to be encouraged to develop or sell to others that have the capital to develop. That is the only real way we are going to see any meaningful progress on infill in the CBD and surrounding areas.

While I don't disagree that the largest issue is developers sitting on the sideline and not participating in any improvements. I also know the city owns a significant amount of property that can still be developed outside of the known developer issues. Look at the Joe Carter lot (in front of OK Ranch, IHOP and others), the East Bricktown lot (next to ballpark), lots behind the Bricktown OCPD, 420 W Main, Lot south of CC, Undeveloped lot at OKC Blvd between Walker and Lee.

These are all just the start of lots that could get developed that would add to the fabric of DT and BT which would further force the developers to get off their butts.

[Plutonic Panda]

I once took a friend with me on a business trip to Lyon, France. I thought he would appreciate a weekend touring the incredible wine region, so I took him. After about two hours in incredible scenery and stopping at famous wineries, he stated that Arkansas wine region was better. I turned the car around and took him back to the hotel.

Years later he admitted that it wasn’t a very astute observation. Sometimes we favor the familiar things over the truly great things. But you have to know, and maybe experienced the difference to make a wise observation.


Everyone has an opinion, but not everyone has a design sense or appreciation of context.

I really want to visit Europe and I’m debating about doing it later in 2024. France or UK was my first thought.

[Tyson]

I really want to visit Europe and I’m debating about doing it later in 2024. France or UK was my first thought.

YES I visited London and Paris last year and it was a joy.