New Downtown Arena

[PoliSciGuy]

Build it on the old Ford site between Myriad Gardens and Scissortail Park. That lot is such an eyesore

Amen, this gets my vote. You could even build over (or outright end) Thunder Dr. and incorporate some of the ground Paycom currently sits on.

[Laramie]

OK, wait. Let me put on my kevlar armor before I say this..... Why not the Fairgrounds?
1. TONS of "free" land
2. Copious parking
3. There's NOTHING there, and it would help the fairgrounds.
4. It would mostly likely spur economic growth around the fairgrounds, which could really use it.

There. I said what I said. It is what it is.

Discuss

The decision before this $900 million arena passed was--it would definitely be built downtown.

Now the fairgrounds might be among the sites in the mix for the $41 million MAPS 4 Multipurpose Stadium--it will
solve the parking where there are tons of parking at the 400+ acres grounds. It could also spur development near the
massive Fairgrounds complex.

We do need to continue to improve the Fairgrounds. The new 5,000-seat, $100 million+ State Fair Coliseum will be a boost for
the area. The stadium needs to have 20,000+ seats wherever it is built; also capable of expansion.

[jn1780]

Build it on the old Ford site between Myriad Gardens and Scissortail Park. That lot is such an eyesore

Yeah, don't know if your remember the convention center selection process. City tried hard to make that happen there. Owners wanted too much money, that was before Cox and Paycom lands became available though for a potential land swap. It would be "expensive".

[Teo9969]

The Thunder wants to be in the new building in ‘29 or ‘30. The Prairie Surf site is subject to a currently-in-place lease, which would require some type of buyout and relocation consideration. The Prairie Surf site is also in a massive structure that will probably take a full year to demolish and prepare for a new building, but not after a massive amount of mechanical that run through the building are relocated. Lots of complicating factors and a tight timeline. Other sites are nearly build-ready.

All of that said, the Prairie Surf site makes the most sense for the City and for the urban fabric, and the giant site offers much more co-development and integrated mixed use opportunity.

Why does a mega block make the most sense to the urban fabric in such an important area of the city? I don't buy that at all. It would make the most sense in Strawberry Fields or Coop where the industrial portion of the arena is tucked against the highway and the "public"/entertainment area leads out into an organically developed entertainment district. I know it would be nice to think that Bricktown should just be that district, so just use that, but the loading docks and mechanical sections of the facade are damaging to the urban fabric. If I need to cross the Cox at any point in time, I'm 100% jumping in the car and while we could.potentially remedy some of that through design, we're guaranteed to chew up a portion of the fabric for arena-only functions.

[Teo9969]

Yeah, don't know if your remember the convention center selection process. City tried hard to make that happen there. Owners wanted too much money, that was before Cox and Paycom lands became available though for a potential land swap. It would be "expensive".

They were super close to Eminent Domain on the property when the city learned what they were asking for was really not that far off

[jdross1982]

Why does a mega block make the most sense to the urban fabric in such an important area of the city? I don't buy that at all. It would make the most sense in Strawberry Fields or Coop where the industrial portion of the arena is tucked against the highway and the "public"/entertainment area leads out into an organically developed entertainment district. I know it would be nice to think that Bricktown should just be that district, so just use that, but the loading docks and mechanical sections of the facade are damaging to the urban fabric. If I need to cross the Cox at any point in time, I'm 100% jumping in the car and while we could.potentially remedy some of that through design, we're guaranteed to chew up a portion of the fabric for arena-only functions.

Which leads to the idea of putting it East of Joe Carter and West of Lincoln. It would require significantly less demo (IHOP, OK Ranch, Brewer Entertainment and OK Compassion Clinic and Emerald Film Systems) and address a lot of the issues you mention while adding to the fabric of Bricktown and make it even easier to add hotels, restaurants, shopping and more surrounding.

Totally believe it will go on Cox site but this area would be a good area as well.

[jn1780]

So regarding site cleanup, How bad is the lumbermill site vs the co-op? City could just buy and cleanup some of the northern parts of the co-op site.

[Pete]

They were super close to Eminent Domain on the property when the city learned what they were asking for was really not that far off

The City started eminent domain but then dropped it when it became clear the court-appointed commissioners would come in with a valuation very close to what the owners demanded, which was like triple what the City was willing to pay.

That was for the convention center with a limited budget, so the City pulled out.

But now we are talking about a billion+ budget with minimal site work required, as opposed to the old Cox Center, which presents all types of headaches (demolition, underground parking, HVAC infrastructure).

It's possible the City could only take part of the REHCO/MidtownR site, let them develop the balance and then give them the Paycom site for future development; and/or give them the rights to develop the old Cox site.

Having said all that, I would be hugely disappointed if the Prairie Surf/Cox structure didn't come down as part of all the reshuffling. People complain about the big surface lot but that old Myriad is exponentially worse IMO. A huge Soviet-style concrete monolith right in the middle of the CBD; it's basically a 50' walled-in superblock. So incredibly bad for downtown.

[Thunderbolt]

Build it on the old Ford site between Myriad Gardens and Scissortail Park. That lot is such an eyesore

If I were king of OKC, I would...

-put the new arena on the old Ford site
-ensure the architechts work the connection of the two parks into the design
-demolish Paycom Center and build a year-round entertainment plaza/Thunder alley
-private development of Cox Center lot

[PokeFromOk]

Hey Pete,
Is the REHCO site still owned by Bob Howard and Fred Jones? And if so, is that Bob Howard the same Robert Howard II that is one of the owners of Professional Basketball Club, LLC (Thunder owners)? It seems if that was the case, then that would likely make the REHCO site perhaps less complicated to negotiate this time. Or maybe not, just an interesting wrinkle if so.

[jn1780]

Having said all that, I would be hugely disappointed if the Prairie Surf/Cox structure didn't come down as part of all the reshuffling. People complain about the big surface lot but that old Myriad is exponentially worse IMO. A huge Soviet-style concrete monolith right in the middle of the CBD; it's basically a 50' walled-in superblock. So incredibly bad for downtown.

Agreed, I don't want to see a scenario where we end up with a net gain of 1 superblock.

[Bellaboo]

I know the votes aren't even fully certified, but I am curious what the next steps will be. Like, when will the deciding the site be (I presume that will be the first step, then basing designs off that)? Or will they reverse that order? I am excited the citizens saw through the BS and realized that, while not a great deal, the info presented by "Buy your own arena" people was lies at worst, half-truths at best ($1,300 per person, not accounting for non-citizens paying some of the tax, as well).

They probably realize that suburban cities of OKC will pay a lot of the tax along with those from out of town. But sure didn't include those numbers in their literature.

[Pete]

This is the updated arena budget.

The OKC Director of Finance said in September that they expect to collect a minimum of $976 million in sales tax over that six-year period.

It was also recently disclosed that the MAPS 4 funds for the arena have increased to $75 million.

So, at a minimum (in millions):

$976 sales tax collection
$75 MAPS 4
$50 Owners
$1,101 Total Budget


But based on my calcs from extrapolating sales tax numbers from historical trends, there will be another $128 million bringing the total to $1,229,000,000. And that number could go higher, especially if City-owned land is used or swapped, as that value would also have to be included.

[DoctorTaco]

They probably realize that suburban cities of OKC will pay a lot of the tax along with those from out of town. But sure didn't include those numbers in their literature.

I hate to "both sides" this but there was a heck of a lot of obfuscation from both sides. Such as...anyone here willing to bet me $200 that the final cost of this project is not well well north of $900 million?

[Pete]

I hate to "both sides" this but there was a heck of a lot of obfuscation from both sides. Such as...anyone here willing to bet me $200 that the final cost of this project is not well well north of $900 million?

See the amended budget above. The City already knew the increased budget before the campaign.

[jdross1982]

See the amended budget above. The City already knew the increased budget before the campaign.

Which was also not a secret, ploy or any other backhanded attempt to conceal from voters. That has been the budget since the beginning.

[Urbanized]

The LOI and all of the comms quite clearly said a MINIMUM of $900 million. No obfuscation in that instance whatsoever.

[ComeOnBenjals!]

Great job OKC - excited to see what the new arena looks like.

[jn1780]

Which was also not a secret, ploy or any other backhanded attempt to conceal from voters. That has been the budget since the beginning.

And they are limited to a term of 6 years for sales tax collections. If they see an issue with the budget early, they will have to get creative with land swap deals which is technically an increase in cost, but I don't think many residents care too much about that. So hopefully 1.1 billion dollars gets us the arena we want.

[Pete]

There is so much that we still don't know:

Design/scope
Location
Cost of property acquisition
Additional development/amenities
Cost of borrowing funds up front

[chssooner]

We won't know much for a year, minimum. So let the speculation run rampant. Lol

[Pete]

They are going to have to get moving. The stated goal is to be open by the end of the decade, so really only 5 years to pull all this together and get the doors open.

I'm 100% sure they have already had discussions about the site and probably have had Populus give them some basic design ideas.

My guess is they are looking at both the Cox site and the lot between the two parks. After getting burned on the convention center and having to start all over at square one, I'm sure there is a preferred site plus a contingency plan.

They are also going to have to start working on financing this whole project with money upfront because it will be open at least 5 years before all the sales tax is collected (2034).

[therhett17]

Was watching the news last night and they were interviewing one of the opponents and he was saying "Yeah the citizens of OKC really got a bad deal on this, the Thunder were never going to leave anyway". Like okay bud, you keep believing that...

[Dob Hooligan]

Hey Pete,
Is the REHCO site still owned by Bob Howard and Fred Jones? And if so, is that Bob Howard the same Robert Howard II that is one of the owners of Professional Basketball Club, LLC (Thunder owners)? It seems if that was the case, then that would likely make the REHCO site perhaps less complicated to negotiate this time. Or maybe not, just an interesting wrinkle if so.

I'm not Pete, but I think you are correct that they are the same person.

I think that land is going to be part of the overall development.

[Pete]

Was watching the news last night and they were interviewing one of the opponents and he was saying "Yeah the citizens of OKC really got a bad deal on this, the Thunder were never going to leave anyway". Like okay bud, you keep believing that...

Let's please move past the election; the entire lead-up was ugly and contentious. It's over now, and fortunately it was a very decisive outcome so no need to keep rehashing the campaign and related politics.

Also, there won't be another MAPS for at least 10 years so let's concentrate on the arena itself.

Any posts about the election will be deleted.