Restaurant closings

[CatholicSooner]

I “think” it’s that place in Norman that Wayne Copeland spent years building. That development on the west side of I-35 in the area where Home Depot and Interurban are. He told me years ago he was gonna call it Wayne’s Waterside Grille.

How long was that place even open? what a nightmare that has been

[FighttheGoodFight]

How long was that place even open? what a nightmare that has been

You know when the land run occurred? This building was there.

[Dob Hooligan]

You know when the land run occurred? This building was there.

That's closer to true than you might think. I recall Copeland tell me that his family had owned the entire area of something like Lindsay/36th/Main/I-35 at one time, and he had sold everything except the parcel the Waterside Grille was going. He was no longer in the restaurant business and was supposedly building it out of cash.

That was probably 15 years ago when he told me this.

[Jeepnokc]

How long was that place even open? what a nightmare that has been

Has it ever actually had a concept in it? I was thinking that it always has been vacant but not positive

[FighttheGoodFight]

Has it ever actually had a concept in it? I was thinking that it always has been vacant but not positive

Nothing has ever been in it. Just a building. I knew a guy who helped do some design work on it. The original owner would work on it when he had extra money but never take out a loan to do work. So it just took forever.

Word is Hal Smith looked at it for the Red Rock Canyon Grill but turned it down.

[Shortsyeararound]

I would say things are about the same.

The more restaurants that open -- and there were literally hundreds in the past year -- the more that will close. And many more open than close.

It's the natural cycle of things and the places that know how to operate and promote themselves survive, while others just are no longer competitive in an increasingly competitive market.

Thank you.
I guess it just feels amplified vs years past. You just hate to see the empty locations. Cafe Do Brasil was our favorite breakfast place and we miss it all the time. Shartel Cafe has been been a good runner up, but it is hard to compare the two cuisines.

[PhiAlpha]

Has it ever actually had a concept in it? I was thinking that it always has been vacant but not positive

LOL. No it’s never even been finished. That was the joke.

[Pete]

Thank you.
I guess it just feels amplified vs years past. You just hate to see the empty locations. Cafe Do Brasil was our favorite breakfast place and we miss it all the time. Shartel Cafe has been been a good runner up, but it is hard to compare the two cuisines.

Again, I think the reason it feels amplified is that there are simply way more restaurants and bars these days.

You could take any restaurant closing this year and I'll show you several more that opened in the immediate area and/or that serve similar cuisine.


BTW, every time a new place opens, there is a chorus of 'do we need another X place (steak, tacos, burgers, pizza, Mexican, ice cream, games, etc.)?' And yet, so many places open and do very well and sustain their success. The most recent example that comes to mind is Symmetry... Still very early for them but from all reports and my own personal experience, they are killing it. Now, contrast Symmetry to Steak the Experience less than a mile away; or even The Vault where Symmetry now operates.

There is always, always room for a new place that knows what they are doing.

[Shortsyeararound]

Again, I think the reason it feels amplified is that there are simply way more restaurants and bars these days.

You could take any restaurant closing this year and I'll show you several more that opened in the immediate area and/or that serve similar cuisine.


BTW, every time a new place opens, there is a chorus of 'do we need another X place (steak, tacos, burgers, pizza, Mexican, ice cream, games, etc.)?' And yet, so many places open and do very well and sustain their success. The most recent example that comes to mind is Symmetry... Still very early for them but from all reports and my own personal experience, they are killing it. Now, contrast Symmetry to Steak the Experience less than a mile away; or even The Vault where Symmetry now operates.

There is always, always room for a new place that knows what they are doing.

I agree- always a need for more people that know what they are doing. Leadership and pride can lead a person/group far.

I would love to take my wife to Symmetry and maybe sometime after the holidays.

[Oski]

As someone in the restaurant business, here's what I observe:

Possible reasons for restaurant closures:
Owner retirement
Bad location
Economic downturn
Rising costs
Labor shortages
Lack of management expertise
Clueless owners/operators

Possible reasons for restaurant openings:
Booming economy
Increased demand
Arrival of skilled chefs/owners seizing opportunities
Naive & clueless new owners entering the market thinking it's gonna be easy (and will end up falling into the first group)

The closure of multiple restaurants in a small area isn't a good sign, especially when the location is prime and there's high demand. The influx of new restaurants may not necessarily indicate a positive trend, especially if they are opened by inexperienced players. A better indication is how many new restaurants still stay in business a year after opening.

[Bill Robertson]

As someone in the restaurant business, here's what I observe:

Possible reasons for restaurant closures:
Owner retirement
Bad location
Economic downturn
Rising costs
Labor shortages
Lack of management expertise
Clueless owners/operators

Possible reasons for restaurant openings:
Booming economy
Increased demand
Arrival of skilled chefs/owners seizing opportunities
Naive & clueless new owners entering the market thinking it's gonna be easy (and will end up falling into the first group)

The closure of multiple restaurants in a small area isn't a good sign, especially when the location is prime and there's high demand. The influx of new restaurants may not necessarily indicate a positive trend, especially if they are opened by inexperienced players. A better indication is how many new restaurants still stay in business a year after opening.

Probably pretty close. In the closure category it's been our experience in the places we've frequented that the last two are the most common.

[EBAH]

Yuzo - place was cool, but never even remotely marketed well at all, like AT ALL
Ludivine - RIP a little piece of me dies with this
Osteria - this place was literally never good, I wanted it to be, but it never was
Sunset - thank god this is gone
Louie's MT - Louies is literally a cancer, glad it is being cured
1492 MT - not that good, must have been well managed tho because wow, how did this last so long ?!?!
Scratch - this is a bummer, but not suprising, the food was never quite as good as the drink prices which is never good
Capitals MT - bummer but oh well, it's not their fault that Boomtown exists
City + State - I never understood who this was for?
Cafe do Brasil - retirement, rip
Oak and Ore - bummer but CRAFT BEER IS OVER (I loved this place but I hated craft beer boom and am not too sad to see the rest of them go)
Ned's Starlite Lounge - This place made no sense to exist but maybe it was good? I never ate there because of how much I hated the Nomad II
The Catch - BI - Chain, never ate there, oh well
Elk Valley Brewery - Craft Brewing is over and the saturation was almost as bad as dispensaries
Twisted Spike Brewery - Craft Brewing is over and the saturation was almost as bad as dispensaries
Cross Timbers Brewery - Craft Brewing is over and the saturation was almost as bad as dispensaries
Moni's - I mean it was at like 170th, does anyone eat up there?
The Mantle - RIP but also, it was still open? weird
The Copley - 23rd - healthy food without greens? never got it, that said, great space and had a decent wine list, I'll miss having meetings there but hopefully new owners understand the value of good greens.
Black Mesa Brewery - Craft Brewing is over and the saturation was almost as bad as dispensaries
City Garden - Craft Brewing is over and the saturation was almost as bad as dispensaries
VZD's - My god please just make it a simple sandwiches and chips restaurant again, I will never forgive that idiot for ruining this insanely easy restaurant
The Eleanor - again still open? it was a champagne bar with nothing but Cava and Prosecco on the menu
Shiki - I mean, is it 2003? don't worry they'll open something else near the strip club

[EBAH]

Thank you.
I guess it just feels amplified vs years past. You just hate to see the empty locations. Cafe Do Brasil was our favorite breakfast place and we miss it all the time. Shartel Cafe has been been a good runner up, but it is hard to compare the two cuisines.

man, Shartel cafe is a gem, like food is pretty meh, but their price for an omelet and a coffee will make you think it's like 1998, it makes me so happy

[warreng88]

Capital's in midtown seemingly has closed

We had a love/hate relationship with Capitals. It was a twice a week summer place for us as we really liked their ice cream and they had great monthly specials. After COVID, they didn't bring back hardly any of their specials and just had the regular five things on the board or a build your own ice cream. Every time we went in there, during the week around 6:30, we would be the only ones in there.

[DoctorTaco]

Yuzo - place was cool, but never even remotely marketed well at all, like AT ALL
Ludivine - RIP a little piece of me dies with this
Osteria - this place was literally never good, I wanted it to be, but it never was
Sunset - thank god this is gone
Louie's MT - Louies is literally a cancer, glad it is being cured
1492 MT - not that good, must have been well managed tho because wow, how did this last so long ?!?!
Scratch - this is a bummer, but not suprising, the food was never quite as good as the drink prices which is never good
Capitals MT - bummer but oh well, it's not their fault that Boomtown exists
City + State - I never understood who this was for?
Cafe do Brasil - retirement, rip
Oak and Ore - bummer but CRAFT BEER IS OVER (I loved this place but I hated craft beer boom and am not too sad to see the rest of them go)
Ned's Starlite Lounge - This place made no sense to exist but maybe it was good? I never ate there because of how much I hated the Nomad II
The Catch - BI - Chain, never ate there, oh well
Elk Valley Brewery - Craft Brewing is over and the saturation was almost as bad as dispensaries
Twisted Spike Brewery - Craft Brewing is over and the saturation was almost as bad as dispensaries
Cross Timbers Brewery - Craft Brewing is over and the saturation was almost as bad as dispensaries
Moni's - I mean it was at like 170th, does anyone eat up there?
The Mantle - RIP but also, it was still open? weird
The Copley - 23rd - healthy food without greens? never got it, that said, great space and had a decent wine list, I'll miss having meetings there but hopefully new owners understand the value of good greens.
Black Mesa Brewery - Craft Brewing is over and the saturation was almost as bad as dispensaries
City Garden - Craft Brewing is over and the saturation was almost as bad as dispensaries
VZD's - My god please just make it a simple sandwiches and chips restaurant again, I will never forgive that idiot for ruining this insanely easy restaurant
The Eleanor - again still open? it was a champagne bar with nothing but Cava and Prosecco on the menu
Shiki - I mean, is it 2003? don't worry they'll open something else near the strip club

These are good takes. My only difference is Osteria. My favorite Italian in town. You just need to add a little salt. I saw Stranger on one of Guy Fieri's cooking contests and he lost the challenge for a lack of salt and I thought, "that sounds about right!"

[jedicurt]

Oak and Ore - bummer but CRAFT BEER IS OVER (I loved this place but I hated craft beer boom and am not too sad to see the rest of them go)

i don't think that craft beer is over... i think that just when Oak and Ore was opened, it was the only place to get a lot of these beers. now many of those from outside the state are available at liquor stores to bring home, and local brewery scene in OKC now has some really great players, so people weren't really going to Oak and Ore anymore... this is my statement on the few breweries that have closed as well, you now have to actually know how to manage a business, or have a good location... you can't just open and think you are going to do well. there are too many good options now.

[ditm4567]

My wife and I frequent Osteria--it is the closest authentic Italian food we have found; and the best. It was always crowded when we went.

[Roger S]

My wife and I frequent Osteria--it is the closest authentic Italian food we have found; and the best. It was always crowded when we went.

I've not been to Osteria but the term authentic used here may be the contributor to a lot of people not caring for it.

I ate at an amazing Italian restaurant in Traverse City, MI this year and maybe the only thing on the menu that you would find at an Olive Garden/Buca di Beppo/Carrabba's was the tiramisu.

We were chatting with the waitress and she told us the owner/chef spent 3 months a year in Italy every year to learn authentic Italian cuisine.

[TheTravellers]

We've been to 1492 in Casady Square a few times and really liked it (especially the seafood enchiladas), but we never went to the Midtown location. Why don't people like the MT location and what's different between the locations?

[CatholicSooner]

i don't think that craft beer is over... i think that just when Oak and Ore was opened, it was the only place to get a lot of these beers. now many of those from outside the state are available at liquor stores to bring home, and local brewery scene in OKC now has some really great players, so people weren't really going to Oak and Ore anymore... this is my statement on the few breweries that have closed as well, you now have to actually know how to manage a business, or have a good location... you can't just open and think you are going to do well. there are too many good options now.

yeah...craft beer isn't going anywhere. The strong will survive.

[EBAH]

yeah...craft beer isn't going anywhere. The strong will survive.

oh yeah I mean "craft beer" is just default beer now. But it isn't the boom that it was 10 years ago, boom is over, the ones that are good are just breweries now, and craft beer is just "beer" now. But I think so many people during covid and past kinda moved on due to it being massively unhealthy lol. Small marginal breweries are dropping like flies nation wide and the ones that are surviving have just transitioned in to basically commercial breweries now. Anyone been to Jester King in Austin recently? it's SAD, ship has sailed to put it mildly. Breweries as tourism is very 2018 now.

Also, I adore Oak and Ore for real, I live on 16th Street and have been a big fan of that spot for a long time, it'll be missed, spent many great times there.

[BoulderSooner]

We've been to 1492 in Casady Square a few times and really liked it (especially the seafood enchiladas), but we never went to the Midtown location. Why don't people like the MT location and what's different between the locations?

pre covid the midtown location was the 1492 flagship and was the focus of the mgmt ... and was consistently great (i don't think there is any one alive that went to 1492 midtown more then I did from 2007 (when it opened) until 2018)

post covid downtown lunch died and staffing became a massive issue (for all restaurants) and the Village location became the more profitable location mgmt of course focused more time there and downtown started to be inconsistent because of lack of time and pretty consistent staff changes ..

when the new lease terms were presented to them (a massive increase) it was just not good business to continue in that location ..

[Oski]

I've not been to Osteria but the term authentic used here may be the contributor to a lot of people not caring for it.

I ate at an amazing Italian restaurant in Traverse City, MI this year and maybe the only thing on the menu that you would find at an Olive Garden/Buca di Beppo/Carrabba's was the tiramisu.

We were chatting with the waitress and she told us the owner/chef spent 3 months a year in Italy every year to learn authentic Italian cuisine.

Do you still remember the name of the restaurant, Roger? Thanks!

[HangryHippo]

I ate at an amazing Italian restaurant in Traverse City, MI this year and maybe the only thing on the menu that you would find at an Olive Garden/Buca di Beppo/Carrabba's was the tiramisu.

We were chatting with the waitress and she told us the owner/chef spent 3 months a year in Italy every year to learn authentic Italian cuisine.

What was the name of this restaurant?

EDIT: Poster above beat me to asking.

[Roger S]

Do you still remember the name of the restaurant, Roger? Thanks!

What was the name of this restaurant?

Trattoria Stella

Traverse City is known as a foodie destination... We had several great meals there.