New Downtown Arena

[BoulderSooner]

There were 2 no. Paul Allen of Portland was the other.

his was at least defensible .. because he was (RIP) also the owner of the Seattle SeaHawks ..

[SoonerDave]

As a seasoned, former campaign operative, I can confidently tell you nothing in the ads or PR campaign indicates the "yes" side is worried. This campaign is very typical. Refer to my earlier post on this topic when people were freaking out that they had not yet seen ads for the "yes" side and it's going exactly as I predicted it would. With that said, even though they are not worried, they also aren't complacent. As any good campaign does, they are going to act as if this thing could come down to one vote, even if their polling tells them they are in good position. That means a flood of phone calls and text messages today and tomorrow, as well as people working the streets tomorrow. When you have polling showing you with a 60-40 lead (not saying that's what the polling says), you don't pack up and go to sleep ( though we can point to a very prominent example of this happening ~7 years ago); you keep with the strategy and push hard right until 7 pm.

Well, that's good to know. Holt just seemed very nervous (my observation) in a recent local interview on the subject. Good to hear that may be purely perception on my part.

[Rover]

Well, that's good to know. Holt just seemed very nervous (my observation) in a recent local interview on the subject. Good to hear that may be purely perception on my part.

LOL. NEVER have seen an interview where Holt was nervous (about anything, actually. He's a cool customer. He does his homework first so he doesn't speak unprepared.

[Dob Hooligan]

his was at least defensible .. because he was (RIP) also the owner of the Seattle SeaHawks ..

Yes. No doubt. And he also was losing his closest opponent. I just now figured out that two of the three teams in the PNW moved within 10 years, or so. Also made Portland's closest opponent in the Bay Area.

I also understood Mark Cuban's vote. Be hard to give up his biggest secondary market, as I think OKC was.

[king183]

Well, that's good to know. Holt just seemed very nervous (my observation) in a recent local interview on the subject. Good to hear that may be purely perception on my part.

To be clear, I have no idea how tomorrow will go (I don't have access to the internal polling and, despite my circle being 99% in favor, I know not to trust that as an indicator). I'm just saying the "yes" campaign is running a standard campaign and nothing they are doing indicates they are worried. There would be certain language in their mail and TV ads, as well as the specific aggressive tactics, I'd expect to see if they were worried.

Turnout is going to be VERY low, so that makes it much more difficult to predict the outcome.

[Anonymous.]

I have been checking out social media on this hot issue a lot over the last couple days. It seems the YES campaign has been targeting twitter (X) threads that mention the arena deal. I am not sure how exactly the algorithm works in showing me whatever ads, but every single thread I view where someone is talking about the OKC arena deal, there is a paid ad for voting YES.

Also wanted to note something interesting in case people here don't frequent reddit. The general NBA subreddit (not the Thunder specific sub) is overwhelmingly against the vote.

[EBAH]

Saying this "isn't a tax increase" is like saying the purchase of a new car doesn't cost more as long as the payment stays the same. Completely ignore extending the payments by 6 years ��

Billionaire team owners need to pony up more than a measly 5%. Reject this deal, team owners need to come back with a better offer.

www.buyyourownarena.com

This is just quite simply one of the dumbest analogies I think I've ever heard. Like it was 2 hours ago I read it and I'm still kind of mystified by it.

[PhiAlpha]

This is just quite simply one of the dumbest analogies I think I've ever heard. Like it was 2 hours ago I read it and I'm still kind of mystified by it.

The only thing you left out was: “Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

[LocoAko]

Also wanted to note something interesting in case people here don't frequent reddit. The general NBA subreddit (not the Thunder specific sub) is overwhelmingly against the vote.

Out of curiosity, why is that? Is it the terms of the deal people think are bad, or some sort of sentiment against the Thunder staying in OKC? (I barely frequent reddit and never venture into the NBA subs, so I have no idea what sort of discussion goes on there). Do you get a sense that many of the posters are local?

[Ginkasa]

Out of curiosity, why is that? Is it the terms of the deal people think are bad, or some sort of sentiment against the Thunder staying in OKC? (I barely frequent reddit and never venture into the NBA subs, so I have no idea what sort of discussion goes on there). Do you get a sense that many of the posters are local?

That the deal is bad. A lot of comments wondering what's wrong with the arena. Pointing out other teams where ownership has paid more.

The OKC subreddit also seems mostly either against it or just done with the whole thing.

[chssooner]

OKC is not big enough to survive losing the Thunder. We don't have enough going for us, and the QOL rankings OKC has worked hard to improve to even average levels, will drop like the Titanic.

[Anonymous.]

The main NBA subreddit is exactly what it sounds like. Fans of the NBA. Obviously most users there are fans of a specific team, sometimes multiple. So speaking on relativity, there is very few Thunder fans in comparison to say the LA teams, Heat, or Warriors, etc. So definitely not local sentiment, but it is interesting to see the thoughts of other NBA fans. Many of them are saying the same things as people here, the deal is bad - stop giving free money to billionaires.

Tinfoil hat: You can set yourself a "flair" in that subreddit which indicates which team you're a fan of (including teams that do not currently exist). That being said, the amount of Seattle Supersonics flairs that are really enjoying this vote debate is wild. In fact, the trolling is almost convincing me that the NO campaign is somehow being funded by Seattle based operations. That is super tinfoil hat, I know - but it is wild to see how many Supersonics fans actually think they can get their team back.

For anyone that is not really a close follower of Thunder/NBA. To put into perspective how valuable OKC is right now in terms of team assets + future assets. Literally everyone wants to be in the Thunder's position. There is billionaires out there that would love to simply buy their way into multiple championship contention seasons by way of this arena vote. This team will be running the league the next decade.

[gopokes88]

his was at least defensible .. because he was (RIP) also the owner of the Seattle SeaHawks ..

Trailblazers, but they had a friendly NW rivalry. Solidarity vote

[Jake]

Out of curiosity, why is that? Is it the terms of the deal people think are bad, or some sort of sentiment against the Thunder staying in OKC? (I barely frequent reddit and never venture into the NBA subs, so I have no idea what sort of discussion goes on there). Do you get a sense that many of the posters are local?

Here’s the Reddit post to see for yourself:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment...to_build_900m/

[BoulderSooner]

Trailblazers, but they had a friendly NW rivalry. Solidarity vote

no Paul allen owned both the trailblazers (portland) and the Seattle Seahawks (NFL ) that is why he voted no he owned a team in seattle .. his sister is the exec and trustee of his estate which STILL owns the blazers and the seahawks ..

[Tyson]

Here’s the Reddit post to see for yourself:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment...to_build_900m/

If someone says anything with negativity and confidence on Reddit then someone will agree that it's a problem. Also so many people on Reddit just hate on OKC without having anything to do with the Thunder. Complainers can have too much power on Reddit lol

[Bill Robertson]

The only thing you left out was: “Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

Absolutely!

[BoulderSooner]

Here’s the Reddit post to see for yourself:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment...to_build_900m/

lots don't understand that OKC is not taking on long term debt with this ... OKC is not giving up arena control with this (which makes it different then the other cities (good or bad is a different issue it is a different type of deal) ) and OKC is a small market with 0 leverage ..

the only "comparable" deals are memphis 0 team donation and Orlando 10% team donation ..

[Ginkasa]

The main NBA subreddit is exactly what it sounds like. Fans of the NBA. Obviously most users there are fans of a specific team, sometimes multiple. So speaking on relativity, there is very few Thunder fans in comparison to say the LA teams, Heat, or Warriors, etc. So definitely not local sentiment, but it is interesting to see the thoughts of other NBA fans. Many of them are saying the same things as people here, the deal is bad - stop giving free money to billionaires.

Tinfoil hat: You can set yourself a "flair" in that subreddit which indicates which team you're a fan of (including teams that do not currently exist). That being said, the amount of Seattle Supersonics flairs that are really enjoying this vote debate is wild. In fact, the trolling is almost convincing me that the NO campaign is somehow being funded by Seattle based operations. That is super tinfoil hat, I know - but it is wild to see how many Supersonics fans actually think they can get their team back.

For anyone that is not really a close follower of Thunder/NBA. To put into perspective how valuable OKC is right now in terms of team assets + future assets. Literally everyone wants to be in the Thunder's position. There is billionaires out there that would love to simply buy their way into multiple championship contention seasons by way of this arena vote. This team will be running the league the next decade.

I'm sure there would definitely be schadenfreude if we lose the team in a very similar manner to how they lost the team.

Random questions/thoughts: If the "No"s have it, what is the earliest that the Thunder could potentially leave? And is there any precedent for an ownership group shifting a team around twice in that time period (2008-X)?

[soonerguru]

I'm sure there would definitely be schadenfreude if we lose the team in a very similar manner to how they lost the team.

Random questions/thoughts: If the "No"s have it, what is the earliest that the Thunder could potentially leave? And is there any precedent for an ownership group shifting a team around twice in that time period (2008-X)?

How long did it take OKC to poach the Thunder after The Starbucks guy sold it?

It will happen almost immediately because other suitor cities wouldn’t have to be vetted as strongly as OKC was.

Seattle already has a $1 billion arena with no tenant. The owners here would likely just sell to another ownership group and cash out.

I really hope people look at the big picture here and what damage a no vote would do to this city. I get why people don’t want to help out the billionaires and multimillionaires but our arena is substandard. OKC should have a better arena than Tulsa. It will be a nice amenity for concerts and events and we get to keep our red-hot NBA team.

Don’t overcomplicate this. It should be a no-brainer “Yes” vote.

[PhiAlpha]

How long did it take OKC to poach the Thunder after The Starbucks guy sold it?

It will happen almost immediately because other suitor cities wouldn’t have to be vetted as strongly as OKC was.

Seattle already has a $1 billion arena with no tenant. The owners here would likely just sell to another ownership group and cash out.

I really hope people look at the big picture here and what damage a no vote would do to this city. I get why people don’t want to help out the billionaires and multimillionaires but our arena is substandard. OKC should have a better arena than Tulsa. It will be a nice amenity for concerts and events and we get to keep our red-hot NBA team.

Don’t overcomplicate this. It should be a no-brainer “Yes” vote.

Our only hope of this fails is that the state and city get aggressively involved and essentially beg the ownership group to hold off selling until a solution is found. I don’t know that they’ll necessarily be in a hurry to sell but as you suggested previously I think it’s a likely scenario without some pretty major government and private intervention. I’ve said it 100 times but just doesn’t seem worth the risk or fire drill that will require.

One major difference in this and Seattle is that the city/state/community all fervently want the thunder here (outside of a few loud anti-arena voices). Hell my dad and stepdad are way more conservative than me and were extremely turned off enough by all the national anthem kneeling and “woke” stuff that came out of the 2020 season that they stopped watching the team but they both acknowledge how important the team is to the city and are making it a point to vote yes (not making a political argument here …just making a point about how even people who don’t necessarily love the team itself right now still know how important this is to the city/state/fans and care enough to drive to a polling location to vote yes).

[ABCOKC]

I'm sure there would definitely be schadenfreude if we lose the team in a very similar manner to how they lost the team.

Random questions/thoughts: If the "No"s have it, what is the earliest that the Thunder could potentially leave? And is there any precedent for an ownership group shifting a team around twice in that time period (2008-X)?

The Rams moved from LA to St. Louis in 1995, then back to LA in 2015. Probably the best comparison. They were in St. Louis for exactly one stadium lifecycle before the lease effectively ran out and they moved. (Technically, the stadium wasn't nice enough to meet the terms of the lease, which allowed the Rams to opt out. But a 20-year-old stadium was never going to meet the "top-tier" criteria, so for all intents and purposes that's when the lease ended).

[Anonymous.]

I really hope people look at the big picture here and what damage a no vote would do to this city. I get why people don’t want to help out the billionaires and multimillionaires but our arena is substandard. OKC should have a better arena than Tulsa. It will be a nice amenity for concerts and events and we get to keep our red-hot NBA team.

This is what I am having a hard time understanding from the "the owners can buy it themselves!" group. Personally, I want my city to own our arena.

[PhiAlpha]

The Rams moved from LA to St. Louis in 1995, then back to LA in 2015. Probably the best comparison. They were in St. Louis for exactly one stadium lifecycle before the lease effectively ran out and they moved. (Technically, the stadium wasn't nice enough to meet the terms of the lease which allowed the Rams to opt out. But a 20-year-old stadium was never going to meet the "top-tier" criteria, so for all intents and purposes that's when the lease ended).

Yeah it didn’t help that during that 20 years the league pivoted hard away from static dome stadiums. Unless you’re in the superdome, everything is either outdoors, outdoors with a canopy, retractable roof or covered in a way that allows a bunch of natural light in and can be opened on the sides to make it feel like an outdoor stadium.

[PhiAlpha]

This is what I am having a hard time understanding from the "the owners can buy it themselves!" group. Personally, I want my city to own our arena.

No kidding. I also find it laughable that we’re demanding that they essentially donate more money to something they’ll have no ownership of and, in all likelihood, will be paying rent similar to what other teams that don’t own their arenas do.

Would love for them to have thrown more down on this but I think the outrage would’ve happened whether they paid $50 or $150 million. The no people just generally are anti public funding for anything sports related or in JoBeth Hamas’s case, anything that doesn’t involve transit or buses. Just seems like a really dumb time to die on that hill.