New Downtown Arena

[TheTravellers]

Odd thing I saw as I pulled out of the Election Board. A guy stopped by the Lincoln median and pulled up 2 "KEEP OKC BIG LEAGUE" signs and took them away. There were tons of signs so it wasn't a matter of trying to not have anyone see them. I wonder what he was doing?

Saw an easy opportunity to put a couple in his own yard?

[PhiAlpha]

Teams break leases all the time. Amd the thunder said they would agree to sign a lease until 2050 but nothing is binding them to it. They could leave once their current lease is up. Would you trust a gentlemen handshake? And I am being purposely obtuse in some ways because I don't think the thunder will leave if this fails. But people are acting all doom and gloom. The reality is even if the thunder sign on in a new a arena a lot of teams have left under similar circumstances. I will always reiterate that I think this will pass. But in say 6 years the city will have other priorities bigger than an arena how will the city raise funds to mitigate fixing those priorities.

Attachment 18491Attachment 18491

Keep in mind that this is the 2nd best the opposition can do.. That's OKC for ya.

Name the last 5 examples of a team breaking a lease and relocating. Then do the same for teams withh brand new arenas and stadiums.

[TheTravellers]

no but it will quickly silence much of the buzz that’s built up around the city for quite awhile. It may not mean much to some people but it would be enough ti make me reconsider whether I want to stay in OKC or OK long term in general.others here have said similar. The fact that we were on the rise and had a ton more of momentum when I graduated in 2010 was largely why I decided to stay here and the Thunder were a huge part of that. Hard to put a price on civic pride.

I've lived here from 1965 - 1995, then from 2009 - present, so I know a bit about OKC civic pride, and yeah, it would dent it, and things would slow down, but there's no way it would revert back to the late 90s, no way.

[chssooner]

I've lived here from 1965 - 1995, then from 2009 - present, so I know a bit about OKC civic pride, and yeah, it would dent it, and things would slow down, but there's no way it would revert back to the late 90s, no way.

but why give it a chance to dent it?

[PhiAlpha]

I've lived here from 1965 - 1995, then from 2009 - present, so I know a bit about OKC civic pride, and yeah, it would dent it, and things would slow down, but there's no way it would revert back to the late 90s, no way.

I've lived here since 1987 so it's not like I don't have any understanding of it. I fully intended to leave after graduating as did many people I went to school with. Would it go back to the 1990s, of course not, but it would be a massive hit to the way the city is perceived by people around my age and younger which is the group that will dictate the city's growth for the next 30+ years. Things didn't become like they were in the 90s overnight.

[Laramie]

[TheTravellers]

I've lived here since 1987 so it's not like I don't have any understanding of it. I fully intended to leave after graduating as did many people I went to school with. Would it go back to the 1990s, of course not, but it would be a massive hit to the way the city is perceived by people around my age and younger which is the group that will dictate the city's growth for the next 30+ years. Things didn't become like they were in the 90s overnight.

Yes, exactly, that's pretty much what I was saying, disagreeing with Bellaboo's statement of "Do you not remember how OKC sucked 25 years ago ? We could revert back to that."

[PhiAlpha]

Yes, exactly, that's pretty much what I was saying, disagreeing with Bellaboo's statement of "Do you not remember how OKC sucked 25 years ago ? We could revert back to that."

thats fair…BUT IT COULD!!!

kidding

[scottk]

While this was meant to be funny and from 2011, it's scary how quickly you can sway/influence general public opinion based upon complete nonsense and fabricated stories.

Makes me wonder how much more disinformation is out there trying to improperly sway a vote one way or the other for passing this on Tuesday.

[PhiAlpha]

Got bored and decided to take a look myself. Wasn’t really sure how to look up whether a team broke a lease but here are all permanent relocations for big 4 sports teams over the last 30 years and the stadium/arena age at the time of relocation.

There are currently 124 big 4 pro-sports teams and there have been 16 relocations in the last 30 years. 4 of those relocations involved a franchise moving twice so 14 total franchises have relocated. The Grizzlies are the only team that relocated with a building under 12 years old. Average facility age at relocation is 31.5 years.



On the flip side, this is also a pretty good argument for how rare relocations are in general, especially among successful franchises, and how it’s more likely that the team would at least try to work with the city if the vote fails vs just raising the white flag and abandoning ship at the first sign of failure after a pretty successful 15 year run here. Personally that’s not a risk I’m willing to take as it doesn’t seem worth it for maybe at best $50-100 million more out of the owners just to stick it to the man, but to each his own. Whether we continue to pay a penny sales tax for an extra year on this vs using it for another purpose during that extra year or finally retire it seems pretty inconsequential when the other potential option is losing the team.

[ditm4567]

Good grief, you're making this much harder than it needs to be

You can say this about 97% of the posts on this topic. So many posts are filled with incorrect facts/information that people take and run with as fact.

[MagzOK]

I look at MAPS as a slush fund created by the city to make the city better as a whole. Building a new arena with MAPS, to me, fits exactly the definition that's been created by the history of MAPS projects. All projects were done to better the city and while I haven't cared for all the projects personally, I recognize the city as a whole is better as a result. Other cities have had extreme interests in how OKC has implemented MAPS and used it to create debt-free quality of life infrastructure for us and future generations. MAPS is generally heralded as a major success eyed by many municipalities across the country.

That being said, I believe that a new arena downtown is exactly what MAPS is for. One could make the argument that we built the first arena with the money and we're already replacing it and it's perfect. I can understand that is somewhat debatable, but we built that to attract something here -- which we got. It wasn't built to the specifications of a particular team and as a result I don't think there were many splurges to make it the best in the country. Now that we got the team, let's build the best arena suited for our Thunder and make them happy for another 30-50 years with it. OKC benefits from it three fold.

The best part about it is that there is no new tax at all. It's just a continuation of what we've done since 1993. It's not like we're mortgaging our kids future by doing this. This is a vote asking the city if we want to move forward and there are no details to be had really. They're saying hey we think it'll probably be around said amount of money to do this, do you want to do it? I mean, when we voted for MAPS in the past we didn't demand designs and details of projects necessarily. We voted on the idea to do it and many of the details came to fruition as a result.

I like it. It's a YES vote for me.

[Bellaboo]

My entire point is NOT to take a step backwards. No way we will suck as bad as pre MAPS, but believe me the exposure the Thunder brings to OKC would dry up fast.

I went to the game last night, which was a classic. I would hate for OKC to lose the opportunity to move forward as a first class city.

[Bellaboo]

IIRC David Stern told Clay Bennet that the Hornets would return to New Orleans, and that if he wanted a team he should pursue the Super Sonics.

That he did with 350 million dollars, and a penalty price that was agreed to by the city of Seattle. We all know the rest of the story.

[OKCRT]

People should look at the Stl Rams when they relocated back to La. A Stl guy Stan Kroenke owns the team and although he didn't sell the team he moved them back to La to enrich himself. These Pro teams are all about maximizing the potential profits. Stl is larger than OKC and Tulsa combined and is somewhere around the 20th largest market and he moved the the 2nd largest market so he could make more $$$$. If he can do it don't think for a second the Thunder ownership couldn't do it. It's all about making that almighty dollar when it comes to Pro Sports. BTW, Kroenke did end up paying the city of Stl around 700 mil. after they settled a law suit so they did come away with that but they lost their team so the average Joe was the real loser. I will be voting yes! Build a really nice arena and don't cut any corners. Do it right OKC

[Bellaboo]

^^ Thank You !

[gopokes88]

Link please . . .

Well it wouldn’t be an internal poll then would it. It’s from my ticket rep, so you’ll have to wait and see.

[gopokes88]

Vote in the world you have not the perfect idealistic one you want.

Losing the thunder would do incalculable damage to okc. From the fact we were the lead in on sports center last night to all our major companies citing the thunder as one of their recruiting tools.

[April in the Plaza]

Vote in the world you have not the perfect idealistic one you want.

Losing the thunder would do incalculable damage to okc. From the fact we were the lead in on sports center last night to all our major companies citing the thunder as one of their recruiting tools.

Exactly. It would be devastating to the recruiting efforts at Dobson Fiber, MidFirst Bank, Balon Valves, and American Fidelity if the team skipped town.

[PhiAlpha]

Exactly. It would be devastating to the recruiting efforts at Dobson Fiber, MidFirst Bank, Balon Valves, and American Fidelity if the team skipped town.

Yeah and every other company here as well as our goal of growing the city.

[Urbanized]

I think that comment might’ve been tongue in cheek and dismissive based on AITP’s previous posts on this topic, but who knows? Tone is often difficult to discern online.

[Bill Robertson]

Saw an easy opportunity to put a couple in his own yard?

I figured something like that.

[PhiAlpha]

I think that comment might’ve been tongue in cheek and dismissive based on AITP’s previous posts on this topic, but who knows? Tone is often difficult to discern online.

fair

[Jersey Boss]

IIRC David Stern told Clay Bennet that the Hornets would return to New Orleans, and that if he wanted a team he should pursue the Super Sonics.

That he did with 350 million dollars, and a penalty price that was agreed to by the city of Seattle. We all know the rest of the story.

Interesting you bring up the fact that the Hornets wanted to stay in OKC but the league said "no".
Yet an arguement for the arena is a no vote will lead to relocation. Prior history seems to be that NBA franchises can't relocate without league approval.

[Urbanized]

There were many extenuating circumstances in the Hornets situation, although you don’t acknowledge them in your post. The NBA board of governors will 100% approve a relocation away from a building that loses money for a franchise, in a community that demonstrates disinterest in retaining them via a modern arena. This much had been clearly proven in the past.