Restaurant closings

[OKCRealtor]

Dang, hate to see Ludivine go. I had never been to the new location but we used to go to the original for drinks occasionally back in the day. Transformative restaurant in OKC for sure. I wonder if things were different after Jonathan and Russ parted ways?

[Pete]

I wonder who owns that building? Who will potentially get in there? What's wrong with Midtown?

Chip Fudge owns the building and I'm sure he was/is an investor.

[PhiAlpha]

That’s very disappointing

[Bill Robertson]

There's a theme I sense on this thread. And I'm very guilty of it myself.
"I'm so sorry they closed. I used to go there a lot".
Like I said, I'm as guilty as anyone.

[PhiAlpha]

There's a theme I sense on this thread. And I'm very guilty of it myself.
"I'm so sorry they closed. I used to go there a lot".
Like I said, I'm as guilty as anyone.

No doubt. I loved ludevine but I thought I could get food I enjoyed more elsewhere at that price point which led to me not going as much.

[Shortsyeararound]

First and only time I have every ate bone marrow. It was great!

[mugofbeer]

First and only time I have every ate bone marrow. It was great!

To each their own. My experience was less than great. Lol

[TheTravellers]

To each their own. My experience was less than great. Lol

Out of the 15 (at least) times we ate there, both at the original location and the new one, we never had a bad experience (other than when we went at lunchtime on Sat recently and wanted brunch, but they had discontinued it by then ). They stopped serving brunch on weekends, then eventually lunch altogether, and were only open for dinner. There was almost no other restaurant like them here when they opened, but I guess they've done their job and their time has expired. Guessing it's partly due to the many other restaurants that are similar enough to them that have opened, plus the splitting of the partnership, plus the expansion into other new restaurants. Their new space is pretty cool, be interesting to see what goes in there...

[citywokchinesefood]

At this point nothing will be replacing the old Ludivine space. It will function as an event space and a secondary kitchen for catering.

[mugofbeer]

Out of the 15 (at least) times we ate there, both at the original location and the new one, we never had a bad experience (other than when we went at lunchtime on Sat recently and wanted brunch, but they had discontinued it by then ). They stopped serving brunch on weekends, then eventually lunch altogether, and were only open for dinner. There was almost no other restaurant like them here when they opened, but I guess they've done their job and their time has expired. Guessing it's partly due to the many other restaurants that are similar enough to them that have opened, plus the splitting of the partnership, plus the expansion into other new restaurants. Their new space is pretty cool, be interesting to see what goes in there...

My experience there was great, l was actually referring to the bone marrow dish. Luckily, l wasn't paying.

[TheTravellers]

My experience there was great, l was actually referring to the bone marrow dish. Luckily, l wasn't paying.

Oh, gotcha. I really liked the bone marrow, but after getting it a few times, the novelty wore off. It was always interesting watching the people that had never had it be amazed at the Flintstones bone that came out to the table.

[April in the Plaza]

At this point nothing will be replacing the old Ludivine space. It will function as an event space and a secondary kitchen for catering.

Agreed. There is only a very small subset of people who can afford to eat out on a consistent basis at these pricing levels. There will be a substantial number of restaurants that close over the next 12 to 18 months. Definitely a shame.

[Teo9969]

What I would be interested to know:

What percentage of these closures has to do with certain restaurants not really being competitive in the market and what percentage has to do with the economy. I guess to some extent, it's always a both/and....BUT, I guess what I'm saying is some of these restaurants may have found themselves in a similar position with a food economy that was more in line with 2015 to 2020 and not the wacky world it has been for the last 3 years. I don't think Ludivine is in that group, but to some extent, there are just too many restaurants competing for attention in 2023.

If another 10-15 reasonably well known locals close between now and July 1st next year, I don't think I'd bat an eye. I'll be more concerned if it's well over 20.

[Urbanized]

There has been a major shift in the distribution of demand. Living downtown and working downtown I can tell you that the street-level activity in the CBD is less than half of what it was in 2019. Businesses reliant on white collar lunches and happy hours have been hit extremely hard. Lunch business specifically has shifted to the suburbs or the home. Tough for marginal performers to stay afloat.

[PoliSciGuy]

There has been a major shift in the distribution of demand. Living downtown and working downtown I can tell you that the street-level activity in the CBD is less than half of what it was in 2019. Businesses reliant on white collar lunches and happy hours have been hit extremely hard. Lunch business specifically has shifted to the suburbs or the home. Tough for marginal performers to stay afloat.

Great and fascinating insight. Even though we’re now almost 4 years out from the pandemic, I think we still have yet to fully understand its effects in a lot of different areas

[OKCRealtor]

Agreed. There is only a very small subset of people who can afford to eat out on a consistent basis at these pricing levels. There will be a substantial number of restaurants that close over the next 12 to 18 months. Definitely a shame.

There's some truth to this. I've mentioned to my wife we would spend thousands just hitting all of the new high end spots to check them out once let alone add something into the mix/rotation. We already spend a significant amount on food & dining out as it is with our regular places. There are only so many people in the top 5 % or so who can really afford to frequent these places with regularity.

[OKCRealtor]

Agreed. There is only a very small subset of people who can afford to eat out on a consistent basis at these pricing levels. There will be a substantial number of restaurants that close over the next 12 to 18 months. Definitely a shame.

There's some truth to this. I've mentioned to my wife we would spend thousands just hitting all of the new high end spots to check them out once let alone add something into the mix/rotation. We already spend a significant amount on food & dining out as it is with our regular places. There are only so many people in the top 5 % or so who can really afford to frequent these places with regularity.

[Bill Robertson]

We've only once been to a high end place and that was paid for. As I know I've said we're easily pleased. The non-high end, mostly chain places we're regulars of were very, very slow in '21 to early this year. To the point we wondered how some stayed open. Just within the past few months most everywhere we go has returned to close to pre '20 crowds.

[PhiAlpha]

There has been a major shift in the distribution of demand. Living downtown and working downtown I can tell you that the street-level activity in the CBD is less than half of what it was in 2019. Businesses reliant on white collar lunches and happy hours have been hit extremely hard. Lunch business specifically has shifted to the suburbs or the home. Tough for marginal performers to stay afloat.

It’s tough in the suburbs as well. A good friend of mine had some very successful restaurants in south Tulsa/bixby. Several closed and post-pandemic operating conditions (massive inflation, food price increases due to inflation and other reasons, big time labor issues, etc) made him decide to throw his hands up and get out. The only restaurant he had left when he sold out is still hanging on by a thread but it’s been very difficult for the guys that bought him out. Just insane how difficult operating conditions are for restaurant owners vs 2019 and it’s only going to get worse for awhile unless economic conditions improve a ton.

[Shortsyeararound]

It’s tough in the suburbs as well. A good friend of mine had some very successful restaurants in south Tulsa/bixby. Several closed and post-pandemic operating conditions (massive inflation, food price increases due to inflation and other reasons, big time labor issues, etc) made him decide to throw his hands up and get out. The only restaurant he had left when he sold out is still hanging on by a thread but it’s been very difficult for the guys that bought him out. Just insane how difficult operating conditions are for restaurant owners vs 2019 and it’s only going to get worse for awhile unless economic conditions improve a ton.

I know this is a restaurant thread, but I think we will see more of everything shut down. I know some in the retail sector are doing half of what they did just in 2019. Once super popular stores will start shutting down.
I hate to see restaurants close, but they say that is one of the hardest businesses to make money in. At this point, service at most places are spotty at best. The knock on fast food has always been that the employees didn’t care and people would say “that’s why they work in fast food”. Well, that kind of “I don’t care” attitude has crept in everywhere. I hate being asked to tip on to go’s or any place that I am actually not getting served (I tip 20-25%). Sorry for the ramble.

[Jersey Boss]

Just say "no tip" when presented with the option to tip at places that don't serve you. I do it all the time. By serve I mean taking my order after seating me. If the server does not check on me after bringing my food the tip goes from 20 to 15 %.

[Shortsyeararound]

Just say "no tip" when presented with the option to tip at places that don't serve you. I do it all the time. By serve I mean taking my order after seating me and actually checking on my beverage and needs after bringing my order.

Is that all you have to do "Einstein"- I had no idea. My IQ is not 180.

I was not clear in why I said it and for that I apologize. I meant that there is an "I don't care" attitude within the service industry and when presented with the tip option by non-servers to customers it has heightened the attitude because some think they are entitled to it. I can't tell you how many times we have tipped a to go order only to get messed up/missing items. When the job of the person is to double check for accuracy- I feel screwed when this happens and I tip, so I have cut tipping when picking up.

[Dob Hooligan]

Oh please.

Restaurants have always been an incredibly tough business, and high end places have a short window (5-10 years at most) to go from "next hot thing" to "institution". We are experiencing normal business changes in a high churn industry.

We are pumping more oil out of the ground in the lower 48 than at any time in history. Record consumption every day. Slowing economies don't do that. We have historic highs in employment and lows in unemployment. We are buying more goods than ever.

You do know Sears and K-Mart withered and died before the pandemic, right?

[Shortsyeararound]

Oh please.

Restaurants have always been an incredibly tough business, and high end places have a short window (5-10 years at most) to go from "next hot thing" to "institution". We are experiencing normal business changes in a high churn industry.

We are pumping more oil out of the ground in the lower 48 than at any time in history. Record consumption every day. Slowing economies don't do that. We have historic highs in employment and lows in unemployment. We are buying more goods than ever.

You do know Sears and K-Mart withered and died before the pandemic, right?

Yes, I am very well versed in the retail world. I am just giving off my 2 cents like everyone else on here that this year we will see the closure of some past "trend forward" companies. Tastes change and buying has changed. The report came out today that said it costs about $8900 more this year to buy what it did in 2021. I know inflation happens, but the pace is faster.
If I tell you that a store I ran was a 4 million dollar clothing store in 2019 and this year will do 1.7 million, would you be concerned for the loss of jobs (which has already happened to a degree) and have the possibility of closing? edited to say 8900 not 8600

[Dob Hooligan]

Yes, I am very well versed in the retail world. I am just giving off my 2 cents like everyone else on here that this year we will see the closure of some past "trend forward" companies. Tastes change and buying has changed. The report came out today that said it costs about $8900 more this year to buy what it did in 2021. I know inflation happens, but the pace is faster.
If I tell you that a store I ran was a 4 million dollar clothing store in 2019 and this year will do 1.7 million, would you be concerned for the loss of jobs (which has already happened to a degree) and have the possibility of closing? edited to say 8900 not 8600

First off...yes. I would absolutely be concerned. and I have lived through those downturns in 40 plus years of being an undercapitalized, ignorant small business owner/operator. I am a relic in my industry and the only reason I'm still around is because my property is paid for and I got nothing else to do. Plus, a few employees who are also old. I fully understand the modern world eliminating my type business, and realize the world goes on without me just fine. People still spending in my type business. They can't live without it. They just don't want to spend it with me.

My question about the clothing store you ran is if people are still buying clothes, just not at your store? We all get crushed by changing consumer tastes.