University Town Center

[Pete]

^

Because there is no arena without OU basketball.

[Jersey Boss]

^

Because there is no arena without OU basketball.

And OU's contribution should reflect that reality. Norman voters have not been clamorig for an arena to be built.

[BoulderSooner]

And OU's contribution should reflect that reality. Norman voters have not been clamorig for an arena to be built.

the out of pocket contribution for norman voters will be 0 dollars

[Pete]

And OU's contribution should reflect that reality. Norman voters have not been clamorig for an arena to be built.

The rent they would pay and the concessions from their crowds will be the main cash flow for the arena, and the arena itself will fuel the entire entertainment district.

Nobody knows the exact financial details yet, so no need to get so worked up.

[onthestrip]

But, But ,But, OU only plans to use this arena 25% of open dates. So if OU only plans to contribute less than 40 % and use it less than 30% why the concern on what OU basketball can fill? With what OU is kicking in and the amount of dates they are committing to it seems OU has an outsized influence on this proposed arena.

One thing I'd like to see is the value OU is assigning to this land. Is it a reasonable price or will they inflate the value so they can help get to that 40%?

[Crocodile Tears]

the out of pocket contribution for norman voters will be 0 dollars

The City of Norman is paying for 60% of the cost of the arena. Where will that money come from?

[onthestrip]

The City of Norman is paying for 60% of the cost of the arena. Where will that money come from?

Comes from delayed property taxes going to local school districts, county health department, libraries and whatever else property taxes go to. Could be over 2 decades of delayed funding depending on how long the TIF lasts.

[BoulderSooner]

Comes from delayed property taxes going to local school districts, county health department, libraries and whatever else property taxes go to. Could be over 2 decades of delayed funding depending on how long the TIF lasts.

and none of those property taxes will exist if this development doesn't get built ..

[BoulderSooner]

The City of Norman is paying for 60% of the cost of the arena. Where will that money come from?

future taxes on this development ..

[Crocodile Tears]

It sounds like the private money involved really needs this arena at UNP to make the rest of their proposed development work. It also seems like they want to put very little skin in the game to make the arena itself a reality.

The cornerstone of your development plans being built by mostly public money in order to make the rest of your plans viable.. Pretty good work if you can get it.

[mugofbeer]

Its an entertainment district to be built around the development. This type of development has been going on for years around stadiums and arenas. See (on a much larger scale) the development around the American Airlines Center in Dallas and the new baseball stadium in Arlington.

[BoulderSooner]

It sounds like the private money involved really needs this arena at UNP to make the rest of their proposed development work. It also seems like they want to put very little skin in the game to make the arena itself a reality.

The cornerstone of your development plans being built by mostly public money in order to make the rest of your plans viable.. Pretty good work if you can get it.

the "private money involved" is OU

[mugofbeer]

the "private money involved" is OU

"and private developers."

Per Lackemeyer - University of Oklahoma President Joe Harroz Jr. was among those supporting the development, which would include a replacement for the Lloyd Noble Center. He said the university would not participate in the development cost but would agree to pay rent for the arena and other venues.

Heikkila confirmed those revenues would be used to support the use of revenue bonds, which are paid from increased revenues from a development.

[Jeremy Martin]

If the arena gets built with 60% city funds I hope they are smart enough to lock OU into a very long term lease.
Genuinely curious to hear of other ways the city is planning on making money with the arena when it's not in use for OU events?

[BoulderSooner]

"and private developers."

Per Lackemeyer - University of Oklahoma President Joe Harroz Jr. was among those supporting the development, which would include a replacement for the Lloyd Noble Center. He said the university would not participate in the development cost but would agree to pay rent for the arena and other venues.

Heikkila confirmed those revenues would be used to support the use of revenue bonds, which are paid from increased revenues from a development.

lol at "per lackemeyer" the OU foundation = "not OU" and yes private developers are going to build lots of the other stuff

[BoulderSooner]

If the arena gets built with 60% city funds I hope they are smart enough to lock OU into a very long term lease.
Genuinely curious to hear of other ways the city is planning on making money with the arena when it's not in use for OU events?

is the city going to own the arena?

[Plutonic Panda]

Smaller arenas are a trend in college basketball.

UT's state-of-the-art new arena holds about 10,000 (down from 16,500 at the Drum).

Baylor, who won recent national championships in both men's and women's basketball, is building a new arena with just 7,000 seats.

Despite smaller attendance, a lot of "big" schools have created terrific atmospheres with tiny arenas - such as Duke and Gonzaga. Sell out almost every game, no empty seats, louder acoustics.

Auburn's new 9,000 seat arena would be a great model for OU. I do wish it was on or closer to campus, though: https://auburntigers.com/sports/2022...asketball.aspx

I did not know smaller arenas were trending. Why is that? Is the sport of college basketball not as popular or more people watching at home?

[chssooner]

I did not know smaller arenas were trending. Why is that? Is the sport of college basketball not as popular or more people watching at home?

More watching at home. Same with college football, at a lot of schools. More convenient, cost-friendly, no dealing with traffic, etc. Not every college, but a lot. Most new stadiums aren't going to be bigger. And a lot of renovations take away seating to make the stadiums more fan friendly.

[Anonymous.]

Movie theaters were the first, now stadiums/arenas. Lower general capacities, but increase the experiences with VIP services.

[bombermwc]

lol at "per lackemeyer" the OU foundation = "not OU" and yes private developers are going to build lots of the other stuff

So that's probably where the confusion is. OU itself isn't going to provide squat, but they will with the Foundation. So the university can say they only are paying for their use. Tricky use of words there, but I do think that's the better arrangement honestly. OU doesn't NEED this, so it's a way to get that middle crutch while they figure out what to do for Lloyd Noble, without having to drop millions. Smart thinking for me. The donors are still paying, but its not really coming out of Operations.

Although if the source is Lackemeyer, well, i think everyone here only trusts his comments so far as his own lips. He's notorious for blowing smoke and being wildly inaccurate. Those Friday talks are always a laugh.

[onthestrip]

Its an entertainment district to be built around the development. This type of development has been going on for years around stadiums and arenas. See (on a much larger scale) the development around the American Airlines Center in Dallas and the new baseball stadium in Arlington.

Pro arenas and stadiums are on another level than college, when it comes to commercial development around these venues. 20 or less home games with crowds at most of them being just a few thousand versus, for example, the NBA with 41 home games and 10,000-18,000 person crowds.

I'm skeptical this arena will be the catalyst for much development. Theyre just adding things in there that they were either going to do regardless or pie in the sky restaurant and entertainment developments that have no guarantee of happening. A whole lot of lip service, creative math and ambitious plans it what it appears to me.

But I get it, if I was an OU fan and someone was paying for it I'd probably want a new arena too.

[jedicurt]

But I get it, if I was an OU fan and someone was paying for it I'd probably want a new arena too.

i mean, i'll be honest... i want it because i go to a lot of men's and women's basketball games, and haven't missed a gymnastics event in 5 years.... and this new arena will be walking distance for me. so i want it. but i get it that i'm not the common use case

[Jersey Boss]

future taxes on this development ..

Two birds in the bush. No reason for Norman to bail out OU.and this is exactly what it is.

[Pete]

Pro arenas and stadiums are on another level than college, when it comes to commercial development around these venues. 20 or less home games with crowds at most of them being just a few thousand versus, for example, the NBA with 41 home games and 10,000-18,000 person crowds.

Between men's and women's hoops plus gymnastics, it would be 50 events each year.

Attendance would go up in a new facility, plus concerts and other things. That would be a lot of people looking to eat and drink before and after the events.

[Crocodile Tears]

Pro arenas and stadiums are on another level than college, when it comes to commercial development around these venues. 20 or less home games with crowds at most of them being just a few thousand versus, for example, the NBA with 41 home games and 10,000-18,000 person crowds.

I'm skeptical this arena will be the catalyst for much development. Theyre just adding things in there that they were either going to do regardless or pie in the sky restaurant and entertainment developments that have no guarantee of happening. A whole lot of lip service, creative math and ambitious plans it what it appears to me.

But I get it, if I was an OU fan and someone was paying for it I'd probably want a new arena too.

But that’s the thing. The “someone” who is paying for the arena is mostly taxpayers. This arena is just a free gift to development speculators to attempt to increase the value of the surrounding property. They want the arena as the cornerstone of their plans but don’t want to pay for it. If so much of the arena is going to be built with public funds, build it near the public university it serves.

The entire point of this project was to get an arena built at UNP with private money because OU couldn’t afford to do it themselves. Now the private money is barely seen for the arena itself and it’s back to Taxpayer money and a chip in from OU to fund the majority of the arena. It doesn’t add up.