New Downtown Arena

[Urbanized]

It’s in the official letter of intent. Documentation is not difficult to find online. And yes, the LOI says “minimum of.” The square footage is where the dollars calculation comes from. More sq ft would drive additional spend.

[chssooner]

I think the LOI states a minimum of 750k square feet, so don’t be surprised if it’s bigger.

fair enough. just think that for the price, we should be getting an immaculate 800,000+ sq. foot arena.

[unfundedrick]

To be honest, Thunder games are the only reason I go downtown nowadays, and that's few and far between. I haven't been since Chris Paul was on the team. Not by personal choice. Definitely would go to more games if I could.

There are only so many times I can go see the Myriad Gardens.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way but that probably says more about you than about downtown if the only reason you go there is for the Thunder or the Myriad Gardens.

[Rover]

I hope you don't take this the wrong way but that probably says more about you than about downtown if the only reason you go there is for the Thunder or the Myriad Gardens.

What are you implying? There are a many, many people, the majority of OKCitians, for whom downtown isn’t the center of their universe. But they do come for special reasons, athletic events, plays, art museums, concerts, etc. Housing grand events or special purpose buildings seems like a normal function for a centrally located city center catering to all the citizens of OKC.

[Urbanized]

fair enough. just think that for the price, we should be getting an immaculate 800,000+ sq. foot arena.

How did you arrive at your price per square foot calculation?

[chssooner]

How did you arrive at your price per square foot calculation?

I didn't? Just think 750k is small, when you look at the price. But I didn't do any fancy calculations. Just don't want OKC to make the same damn mistake twice, building an arena too small.

[Bill Robertson]

What are you implying? There are a many, many people, the majority of OKCitians, for whom downtown isn’t the center of their universe. But they do come for special reasons, athletic events, plays, art museums, concerts, etc. Housing grand events or special purpose buildings seems like a normal function for a centrally located city center catering to all the citizens of OKC.

I'm one. I'll be the first to admit I'm not cultured. Museums?, meh! Plays?, pass. Athletic events?, not a AAA baseball fan. Used to go to Thunder games but I really don't like basketball so they only held my interest when they were competitive and probably won't ever get it back. Restaurants?, their all over town without messing with parking. Concerts?, YES! We go to concerts. But one out of ? doesn't make me or anyone else different in any negative way and I also wonder what was implied?

[aDark]

Before anyone's' feathers get more ruffled than they already are, please note that Unfunded Rick was replying to a poster (Floyd) who essentially said that the only thing to do downtown was Thunder games or the Myriad Gardens. I see that Rick was trying to tell Floyd that if that's all he can think of for purposes of venturing downtown then it should be viewed not as an indictment of downtown but as commentary of Floyd not knowing the many things downtown has to offer.

Rover, I think you missed the ball entirely as Rick was referencing that Floyd overlooked the very things you listed out.

Bill, same. It's not an attack on people that don't live downtown. Bill, if I can be so bold, if the Thunder "only held your interest when they were competitive" and you really believe they "probably won't ever get it back" then I gotta say you're just not watching.

[caaokc]

I'm one. I'll be the first to admit I'm not cultured. Museums?, meh! Plays?, pass. Athletic events?, not a AAA baseball fan. Used to go to Thunder games but I really don't like basketball so they only held my interest when they were competitive and probably won't ever get it back. Restaurants?, their all over town without messing with parking. Concerts?, YES! We go to concerts. But one out of ? doesn't make me or anyone else different in any negative way and I also wonder what was implied?

This Thunder team is really good and on its way to being very competitive.

[April in the Plaza]

This Thunder team is really good and on its way to being very competitive.

I’ll give them some credit. They picked the right year to ask for a new arena.

[floyd the barber]

I hope you don't take this the wrong way but that probably says more about you than about downtown if the only reason you go there is for the Thunder or the Myriad Gardens.

Name something to do in OKC and I have been there.

I'm not saying I don't like OKC. I'm saying Thunder games are one of the few events I would go out of my way to go downtown.

[Bill Robertson]

This Thunder team is really good and on its way to being very competitive.

I keep up with them. But as I said I've never liked basketball. I got on the bandwagon once and I don't think I can do it again. But I'm all for the Thunder and what they bring to OKC as far as recognition.

[Urbanized]

I didn't? Just think 750k is small, when you look at the price. But I didn't do any fancy calculations. Just don't want OKC to make the same damn mistake twice, building an arena too small.

Gotcha. I guess the point I was trying to make in a roundabout way by asking is that the $900M number is tied directly to the square footage, and developed using an expectation of price per square foot based upon existing standards.

I’d say there’s probably a pretty good chance that both numbers (actual square feet and actual project total) might very well end up higher than listed; especially since both were couched in the “minimum of..” wording.

I suspect that 750K sq ft is what the Thunder said is the minimum they’d accept in a new facility based on current league best practices, and that drove the other number. Larger on both counts seems possible if not likely.

[dankrutka]

"HoopsHype polled 35 media members who’ve traveled to arenas across the country to find out which are the best in the league." OKC ranked 19 out of 29. Read the story here (there's not much content/explanation beyond the vote).

[Rover]

"HoopsHype polled 35 media members who’ve traveled to arenas across the country to find out which are the best in the league." OKC ranked 19 out of 29. Read the story here (there's not much content/explanation beyond the vote).

They should do the same with the logistics people and tour management companies.

[Rover]

Before anyone's' feathers get more ruffled than they already are, please note that Unfunded Rick was replying to a poster (Floyd) who essentially said that the only thing to do downtown was Thunder games or the Myriad Gardens. I see that Rick was trying to tell Floyd that if that's all he can think of for purposes of venturing downtown then it should be viewed not as an indictment of downtown but as commentary of Floyd not knowing the many things downtown has to offer.

Rover, I think you missed the ball entirely as Rick was referencing that Floyd overlooked the very things you listed out.

Bill, same. It's not an attack on people that don't live downtown. Bill, if I can be so bold, if the Thunder "only held your interest when they were competitive" and you really believe they "probably won't ever get it back" then I gotta say you're just not watching.

I'll accept your cover for the statement. But, when someone starts a post or conversation with "don't take this the wrong way", I believe they know what they are saying is likely interpreted in a negative way. There would be a hundred better ways to make the statement about things to do in downtown than the one chosen. That's why I said I wasn't sure what he was implying.... and he never came back to clarify.

[Mississippi Blues]

I'll accept your cover for the statement. But, when someone starts a post or conversation with "don't take this the wrong way", I believe they know what they are saying is likely interpreted in a negative way. There would be a hundred better ways to make the statement about things to do in downtown than the one chosen. That's why I said I wasn't sure what he was implying.... and he never came back to clarify.

Not to play mediator but I don’t think it was meant as a mockery of anyone who hasn’t made downtown Oklahoma City the center of their universe; rather, a defense of the variety of things to do downtown.

It wouldn’t seem responding to the implication that the only things to do downtown are the Thunder or Myriad Garden should be read as slander of suburbanites.

[Urbanized]

"HoopsHype polled 35 media members who’ve traveled to arenas across the country to find out which are the best in the league." OKC ranked 19 out of 29. Read the story here (there's not much content/explanation beyond the vote).

From the article:

Their criteria ranged from the crowd’s atmosphere and energy to the quality of the arena, culinary offerings, and lighting.

Seems it had little to do with the operational aspects of the building or the parts that aren't immediately obvious during game play. I wouldn't expect sports reporters to know much about even the concourse areas; much less about show logistics or team revenue potential. Is it a fine place to see a game..? Sure, we already knew that the crowd was good (when the Thunder are winning).

[Laramie]

Some don't like the term 'Big League City.' that's where we find ourselves as MAPS is one piece of the 'quality of life' puzzle.

The new arena will be much like our 'Palace' among other NBA cities--essentially our city's brand. We need to make it as competitive as those arenas in other cities with fan friendly amenities and affordable seating for all.

Whether you're placing emphasis on specifications (square footage, outdoor patio, balcony, comfortable seating with cup holders and a variety of concession options), we've got to get this right because $900 million will be our mortgage.

[April in the Plaza]

Some don't like the term 'Big League City.' that's where we find ourselves as MAPS is one piece of the 'quality of life' puzzle.

The new arena will be much like our 'Palace' among other NBA cities--essentially our city's brand. We need to make it as competitive as those arenas in other cities with fan friendly amenities and affordable seating for all.

Whether you're placing emphasis on specifications (square footage, outdoor patio, balcony, comfortable seating with cup holders and a variety of concession options), we've got to get this right because $900 million will be our mortgage.

I do like the idea of having some outdoor patios and ample daytime natural lighting (similar to Gainbridge in Indy), although I wonder if the natural lighting would present operational challenges for some events.

[Laramie]

I do like the idea of having some outdoor patios and ample daytime natural lighting (similar to Gainbridge in Indy), although I wonder if the natural lighting would present operational challenges for some events.

What we've learned from previous MAPS projects is to have enough funds to cover those operational challenges. Having an option to shift those extra funds to cover the unforeseen challenges--with operational expenses built into the development.

That's why the new arena's budget will be 10x what was budgeted for the DT arena 20 years ago.

[unfundedrick]

What are you implying? There are a many, many people, the majority of OKCitians, for whom downtown isn’t the center of their universe. But they do come for special reasons, athletic events, plays, art museums, concerts, etc. Housing grand events or special purpose buildings seems like a normal function for a centrally located city center catering to all the citizens of OKC.

I'm implying exactly what you stated. What was mentioned in that post I responded to was specific for that person and everyone is different in their interests. When I said I hope you don't take this the wrong way I meant I wasn't criticizing.

[unfundedrick]

I'll accept your cover for the statement. But, when someone starts a post or conversation with "don't take this the wrong way", I believe they know what they are saying is likely interpreted in a negative way. There would be a hundred better ways to make the statement about things to do in downtown than the one chosen. That's why I said I wasn't sure what he was implying.... and he never came back to clarify.

I don't spend a lot of time on this forum so just because I don't answer immediately doesn't mean I won't.

[HOT ROD]

$900 million divided by 500K population works out to be roughly $1,800 per person. It's not "just a penny".

Another way to look at it is if you spend $30k per year, that's $300 in sales taxes for the stadium. $300/yr x 6yrs is $1,800. Of course, the amount you pay will depend on how much you spend in OKC and how much you order online.

The question is, is a new stadium worth $1,800 to you, or would you rather spend the money on something else? Or would you rather end the "temporary tax" and put the $1,800 in your pocket?

You're already doing it.. Not sure what you're talking about.

[Mountaingoat]

He's assuming OKC residents will pay 100% of the sales tax revenue going to the cost of the arena, not taking into account prorating the cost over a roughly 20 year period or continued population and tax revenue growth over that time frame. The per capita cost will be far less than $1,800/resident, in reality.