New Downtown Arena

[BoulderSooner]

I

Again, it's worth noting that the City has confirmed they lost money on Paycom last (fiscal) year and this new arena would only be more costly to operate given that it will be bigger with more amenities, require more staffing and maintenance etc.

If OKC is dropping this amount of money, the terms should reflect that investment in the Thunder, who will continue to collect 100% of gate revenue and would get more revenue from more events since this new arena is being argued to all but guarantee we'll bring in more events (which means more suite money for Thunder).

I don't believe the city ever "confirmed" this ..

the city confirmed what the budget ..

but again the city puts revenue in different pots .. and there is not arena only budget page showing all revenue and all expenses ... which is absurd

[Teo9969]

I don't believe the city ever "confirmed" this ..

the city confirmed what the budget ..

but again the city puts revenue in different pots .. and there is not arena only budget page showing all revenue and all expenses ... which is absurd

What do you have to back up these claims when the report presented to the council (post 1979 in this thread) clearly shows a loss?

[Dob Hooligan]

Cities are bad business operators. OKC (and other cities) learned that during the 1970s-80s after they all got on an arena arms race, and then maintenance, labor and the touring/resident tenant entities got smarter about the money involved, and the arenas were regarded as a financial black hole. ASM and other companies specialized in arena operation and then consolidated, leaving only a few.

The cold, hard truth is cities lose money on arenas. Just like they do on Zoos, symphony halls, public parks, street cars/ public transportation, and all kinds of Quality of Life items.

I trust city management is fully aware of the costs involved with arena operation, and also fully aware of how we compare to peer cities. If we were getting screwed, I'm sure there is a "Bob Anthony type" in the council or management who would make sure the word got out.

[BoulderSooner]

What do you have to back up these claims when the report presented to the council (post 1979 in this thread) clearly shows a loss?

do you see thunder rent payment in that document

do you see thunder parking payment in that document

do you see thunder game expense payment in that document

do you don't

[PoliSciGuy]

do you see thunder rent payment in that document

do you see thunder parking payment in that document

do you see thunder game expense payment in that document

do you don't

So what are those numbers then? It's fascinating to look at your post history in this thread and compare the claims you make to the actual evidence you post (which is near 0).

[BoulderSooner]

So what are those numbers then? It's fascinating to look at your post history in this thread and compare the claims you make to the actual evidence you post (which is near 0).

would be great if the city had all of them and an arena full page accounting on 1 sheet and in one place ..

[Teo9969]

do you see thunder rent payment in that document

do you see thunder parking payment in that document

do you see thunder game expense payment in that document

do you don't

Pretty sure those go to ASM, so we wouldn't see it on a city document.

I'm not of the opinion that the City needs to make money on this project, I agree with Dob that city/government budgets shouldn't operate similarly to the private sector. But I do need to know, before I vote "Yes" to lock away $1.2B+ what the real cost is and even if I vote "No" and "Yes" wins out, I will still be pretty gung ho about more transparency surrounding the financial performance of this ridiculously large investment, just like I expect for the city to account for the performance of the Convention Center and Transit.

On another note, parks are a really bad comparison for this conversation. They're nearly never revenue generating but they're undeniably essential in a city scape and necessary for the Humanity of citizens. Zoos, Theaters, Transit, Libraries, etc are comparable and should be compared to make sure we're getting good ROI not necessarily in comparison to other cities, alone, but also in the competiton for dollars within the city budget. One major difference is that a lot of those types of amenities come with substantiallymore transparent budgets than we're.getting on this arena and they ask for quite a bit less money.

[Plutonic Panda]

Vote yes!����

[foodiefan]

Vote yes!����

[PhiAlpha]

Vote yes

[cornhusker740]

Interesting story from KOCO: https://www.koco.com/article/oklahom...ncert/45825982


Hoping for good news and a yes vote next month. The city will regret if the arena vote fails and the Thunder leave town.

[chssooner]

Interesting story from KOCO: https://www.koco.com/article/heres-h...ovies/45825074

Hoping for good news and a yes vote next month. The city will regret if the arena vote fails and the Thunder leave town.

Now I know how to get paid to watch holiday movies!

[cornhusker740]

Now I know how to get paid to watch holiday movies!

Sorry, wrong link.

https://www.koco.com/article/oklahom...ncert/45825982

[chssooner]

Does nothing but show OKC needs a new arena. 3 of the 24 largest arena-based tours came through.okc wouldn't get less than Tulsa, just from a sheer population-standpoint. So it makes the point even stronger that OKC needs a new arena.

Getting a couple good shows is lipstick on a pig. Cool to grt the shows here, but it is still a pig.

[Canoe]

Pretty sure those go to ASM, so we wouldn't see it on a city document.

I'm not of the opinion that the City needs to make money on this project, I agree with Dob that city/government budgets shouldn't operate similarly to the private sector. But I do need to know, before I vote "Yes" to lock away $1.2B+ what the real cost is and even if I vote "No" and "Yes" wins out, I will still be pretty gung ho about more transparency surrounding the financial performance of this ridiculously large investment, just like I expect for the city to account for the performance of the Convention Center and Transit.

On another note, parks are a really bad comparison for this conversation. They're nearly never revenue generating but they're undeniably essential in a city scape and necessary for the Humanity of citizens. Zoos, Theaters, Transit, Libraries, etc are comparable and should be compared to make sure we're getting good ROI not necessarily in comparison to other cities, alone, but also in the competiton for dollars within the city budget. One major difference is that a lot of those types of amenities come with substantiallymore transparent budgets than we're.getting on this arena and they ask for quite a bit less money.

I want people like Teo in City Administration.

[warreng88]

Also keep in mind that the Drake show is two days after the Thunder play and then two more days after the Drake show, Disturbed plays, so there is plenty of time in between the two. We couldn't do Drake, Disturbed, Tool and Jason Isbell back to back to back to back... To Urbanized point, it's easy for the Thunder to pack up, but to move whole shows in and out is difficult.

[Teo9969]

Also keep in mind that the Drake show is two days after the Thunder play and then two more days after the Drake show, Disturbed plays, so there is plenty of time in between the two. We couldn't do Drake, Disturbed, Tool and Jason Isbell back to back to back to back... To Urbanized point, it's easy for the Thunder to pack up, but to move whole shows in and out is difficult.

Do we need to do that at this current juncture? I think we're 20 years away from having the population and economy to regularly support a Thursday>Friday>Saturday lineups and even being able to reliably grab Fridays and Saturdays for big acts. And that somewhat assumes we outpace a lot of competing cities. Not to say we can't ever get big acts on the weekend, but if they're trying to B2B the show with Dallas, you can believe the Friday show is happening in Dallas.

[warreng88]

Do we need to do that at this current juncture? I think we're 20 years away from having the population and economy to regularly support a Thursday>Friday>Saturday lineups and even being able to reliably grab Fridays and Saturdays for big acts. And that somewhat assumes we outpace a lot of competing cities. Not to say we can't ever get big acts on the weekend, but if they're trying to B2B the show with Dallas, you can believe the Friday show is happening in Dallas.

That's not for me to say, but the issue is we don't have the capacity to do it if we wanted to. There are a lot of complaints that the BOK in Tulsa gets more shows because it is a better venue and I would guess it would be like Dallas/Houston/Austin (yes, I know those cities are bigger) in that OKC might get the first leg of a tour and Tulsa the second leg or vice versa.

[chssooner]

Do we need to do that at this current juncture? I think we're 20 years away from having the population and economy to regularly support a Thursday>Friday>Saturday lineups and even being able to reliably grab Fridays and Saturdays for big acts. And that somewhat assumes we outpace a lot of competing cities. Not to say we can't ever get big acts on the weekend, but if they're trying to B2B the show with Dallas, you can believe the Friday show is happening in Dallas.

Tulsa had double the # of top 24 arena tours last year. That should say all you need to know.

They have less population, and are no more wealthy than here. They just have an arena capable of handling all modern shows. We get some, but usually have a less elaborate staging area or stage in general. And are very, very, VERY rarely, if ever, on back to back days.

[caaokc]

Good interview w Rep. Forrest Bennet. Talks about the arena at the beginning. Brings up a lot of good points - https://open.spotify.com/episode/0yc...TLirDg7gUt_jtw

[April in the Plaza]

Good interview w Rep. Forrest Bennet. Talks about the arena at the beginning. Brings up a lot of good points - https://open.spotify.com/episode/0yc...TLirDg7gUt_jtw

He definitely makes a lot of good points. If we’re going to provide a $1.5 Billion arena, the owners should commit to a full rebrand of all marks and logos, a payroll that consistently lands in 2nd apron territory, and an option for locals to watch for free. The bally experience has been an unmitigated disaster.

[Teo9969]

Tulsa had double the # of top 24 arena tours last year. That should say all you need to know.

They have less population, and are no more wealthy than here. They just have an arena capable of handling all modern shows. We get some, but usually have a less elaborate staging area or stage in general. And are very, very, VERY rarely, if ever, on back to back days.

It's worth remembering we have an anchor tenant whose occupation of certain days may make it less likely that a traveling act wants to deal with scheduling in a Tier III market. I'd like to know how Memphis & Milwaukee fare.

[PhiAlpha]

Sorry, wrong link.

https://www.koco.com/article/oklahom...ncert/45825982

LOL what a dumb argument against the new arena.

[PhiAlpha]

I want people like Teo in City Administration.

I’d be down with that as long as the arena is approved first

[aDark]

Good interview w Rep. Forrest Bennet. Talks about the arena at the beginning. Brings up a lot of good points - https://open.spotify.com/episode/0yc...TLirDg7gUt_jtw

Great share! Thank you for linking that. Forrest is very well-spoken and I hope he continues to build a career in public service.

That quote about his left-wing friend who says "Look, the vote on the 12th is whether or not you want a team. We can discuss all the other things..." re whether ownership contributed enough, etc. but this is the whole thing boiled down to simple, maybe uncomfortable, truth.