New Downtown Arena

[chssooner]

It could be improved by a permanent one for sure. Letting the state dictate the quality of our schools is definitely a deciding factor in why our business community remains smaller than we need it to be.

But school districts HAVE to follow state rules and practices. No changes that would affect the "business community" can be made at rhe city level. Building new schools? Sure. But that won't improve educational rankings, IMO.

[BoulderSooner]

I wouldn't call Thunder Employees operating expenses from an arena management perspective.

the thunder pay OKC 28,000 dollars for operating expense's every game separate from their rent payment ..

[Teo9969]

the thunder pay OKC 28,000 dollars for operating expense's every game separate from their rent payment ..

It's all basically rent, it's about $100,000/game. It doesn't go terribly far for an event of that magnitude.

Given that we will be funding the $900B arena that will bring more concerts and enhance the Thunder experience, the city should pass this and then bring those numbers to a more favorable agreement for the city.

At the point that we pass this, we do have more bargaining power than we have before the vote. If we vote through an arena we are funding almost entirely on our end, the Thunder would look really bad backing out of a reasonable, but las favorable lease with the city.

[BoulderSooner]

It's all basically rent, it's about $100,000/game. It doesn't go terribly far for an event of that magnitude.

Given that we will be funding the $900B arena that will bring more concerts and enhance the Thunder experience, the city should pass this and then bring those numbers to a more favorable agreement for the city.

At the point that we pass this, we do have more bargaining power than we have before the vote. If we vote through an arena we are funding almost entirely on our end, the Thunder would look really bad backing out of a reasonable, but las favorable lease with the city.

what are the hard costs of game night for the facility? do you know that answer for this?

[Canoe]

But school districts HAVE to follow state rules and practices. No changes that would affect the "business community" can be made at rhe city level. Building new schools? Sure. But that won't improve educational rankings, IMO.

It is my understanding that the state sets the minimum pay for teachers. If a district decided to tax themselves more and pay their teachers more and recruit a higher quality of teacher they could, right?

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^^^
It doesn't work that way in Oklahoma. If a district receives additional funding via local property taxes, this amount is subtracted from the state funding they would have otherwise received, which is then instead distributed to other districts. The only place a municipal government can make a real difference via taxation is through capital projects (construction and improvement of facilities), either by bond issue or sales tax (the best example being MAPS for Kids in the early 2000s). In effect, the only way to give additional funding directly to teacher pay would be to forgo all state funding. In most districts state funding accounts for about 70% of their budget.

[April in the Plaza]

It is my understanding that the state sets the minimum pay for teachers. If a district decided to tax themselves more and pay their teachers more and recruit a higher quality of teacher they could, right?

i think that's correct? the state establishes a State Minimum Teacher Salary Schedule and public school districts are allowed to meet or exceed it:

https://sde.ok.gov/sites/default/fil...ook%20FY23.pdf

[Dob Hooligan]

It's all basically rent, it's about $100,000/game. It doesn't go terribly far for an event of that magnitude.

Given that we will be funding the $900B arena that will bring more concerts and enhance the Thunder experience, the city should pass this and then bring those numbers to a more favorable agreement for the city.

At the point that we pass this, we do have more bargaining power than we have before the vote. If we vote through an arena we are funding almost entirely on our end, the Thunder would look really bad backing out of a reasonable, but las favorable lease with the city.

This an innocent question....what would constitute a good deal?

Do you happen to know, or have access to, the arena lease agreements with the other NBA teams, so we can understand why our deal is bad?

[Teo9969]

^^^^^^^^^
It doesn't work that way in Oklahoma. If a district receives additional funding via local property taxes, this amount is subtracted from the state funding they would have otherwise received, which is then instead distributed to other districts. The only place a municipal government can make a real difference via taxation is through capital projects (construction and improvement of facilities), either by bond issue or sales tax (the best example being MAPS for Kids in the early 2000s). In effect, the only way to give additional funding directly to teacher pay would be to forgo all state funding. In most districts state funding accounts for about 70% of their budget.

The school doesn't have to pay the teachers for the teachers to be paid. "Hey, vote for a permanent 1% sales tax to fund a city wide tutoring program. The requirements to tutor are that you are employed as a teacher in an Oklahoma City based public school district. Pay is $20k per year and the program requirements are ________."

There's a million ways to be creative with ways to ensure the budgets of OKCPS, Putnam City, and Deer Creek are opened up to redirect pay toward teachers and/or student programs.

It's a city position to execute a city funded initiative.

[Teo9969]

what are the hard costs of game night for the facility? do you know that answer for this?

It's a good chunk of change.

Source for below: http://web.archive.org/web/202011120...rt10-13-15.pdf

Based on what I can deduce, in 2015, BB&T arena (where the Florida Panthers played), had a study executed. For Approx. 86 events per year (Page 156) they anticipated ~$8.6M/year in expenses or $100,000 per event. I believe the study was for what it would look like if they did not have the Florida Panthers as an anchor tenant, so I would expect numbers to look different adding in a professional sports event. I would think the costs would be higher on average for a professional sports event given that the arena is at full capacity and crowd draw.

Again, it's worth noting that the City has confirmed they lost money on Paycom last (fiscal) year and this new arena would only be more costly to operate given that it will be bigger with more amenities, require more staffing and maintenance etc.

If OKC is dropping this amount of money, the terms should reflect that investment in the Thunder, who will continue to collect 100% of gate revenue and would get more revenue from more events since this new arena is being argued to all but guarantee we'll bring in more events (which means more suite money for Thunder).

[Dob Hooligan]

It's a good chunk of change.

Source for below: http://web.archive.org/web/202011120...rt10-13-15.pdf

Based on what I can deduce, in 2015, BB&T arena (where the Florida Panthers played), had a study executed. For Approx. 86 events per year (Page 156) they anticipated ~$8.6M/year in expenses or $100,000 per event. I believe the study was for what it would look like if they did not have the Florida Panthers as an anchor tenant, so I would expect numbers to look different adding in a professional sports event. I would think the costs would be higher on average for a professional sports event given that the arena is at full capacity and crowd draw.

Again, it's worth noting that the City has confirmed they lost money on Paycom last (fiscal) year and this new arena would only be more costly to operate given that it will be bigger with more amenities, require more staffing and maintenance etc.

If OKC is dropping this amount of money, the terms should reflect that investment in the Thunder, who will continue to collect 100% of gate revenue and would get more revenue from more events since this new arena is being argued to all but guarantee we'll bring in more events (which means more suite money for Thunder).

You ignoring my question about what is a “good deal”? And what are the other NBA teams paying?

Funny you mention Miami. I read on the Wikipedia page for the former American Airlines Arena, which hosts the Miami Heat, that the Heat don’t pay anything.

[Laramie]

.







December 12, 2023 - Keep OKC Big League Campaign.

How Do I Vote?
Who can vote?
How can I register to vote?
Can I vote early?
What if I won’t be in Oklahoma City on December 12? Can I still vote?

Link: https://www.keepokcbigleague.com/how-do-i-vote

. . . One month from today.

.

[Bowser214]

Vote yes!!

[catcherinthewry]

I got my ballot in the mail yesterday. I'm voting YES.

[Teo9969]

You ignoring my question about what is a “good deal”? And what are the other NBA teams paying?

Funny you mention Miami. I read on the Wikipedia page for the former American Airlines Arena, which hosts the Miami Heat, that the Heat don’t pay anything.

I would like to see:

1. The thresholds for game time concessions increased by $1M at each level and set to jump $1M at years 10 and 20 of the lease.

2. I would also like to see the general concessions percentages to the Thunder drop 10% and the Courtside/club/restaurants/bars percentages increase 10% (I posit risk exposure is higher for general concessions than this set)

3. I would like to see the Thunder's luxury/premium rates drop 10% with a 12.5% stipend for Thunder game activity. (Luxury seats is one of the major reasons this is being done anyway, so give them more of the revenue they create for basketball events and the city for the additional events that will be created)

4. Naming rights should be $2.5M to OKC and increase $500k every 5 years. Lump sum payout of remaining rights revenue in the event of early termination.

5. Per game rent/fees to go from $80k to $105k and inflation cap bumped to 7%

6. Lease extension+renegotiation at 20 years with minimum extension of 10 years from end of current contract. Payout of $15M per year left on the lease for any early termination regardless of reason.

7. Non-relocate similar to current lease.

[Dob Hooligan]

I would like to see:

1. The thresholds for game time concessions increased by $1M at each level and set to jump $1M at years 10 and 20 of the lease.

2. I would also like to see the general concessions percentages to the Thunder drop 10% and the Courtside/club/restaurants/bars percentages increase 10% (I posit risk exposure is higher for general concessions than this set)

3. I would like to see the Thunder's luxury/premium rates drop 10% with a 12.5% stipend for Thunder game activity. (Luxury seats is one of the major reasons this is being done anyway, so give them more of the revenue they create for basketball events and the city for the additional events that will be created)

4. Naming rights should be $2.5M to OKC and increase $500k every 5 years. Lump sum payout of remaining rights revenue in the event of early termination.

5. Per game rent/fees to go from $80k to $105k and inflation cap bumped to 7%

6. Lease extension+renegotiation at 20 years with minimum extension of 10 years from end of current contract. Payout of $15M per year left on the lease for any early termination regardless of reason.

7. Non-relocate similar to current lease.

You have a number. Good.

You have any idea if these items are being discussed currently? You have any reason to think they would not be discussed?

[Teo9969]

You have a number. Good.

You have any idea if these items are being discussed currently? You have any reason to think they would not be discussed?

Based on how this deal has gone so far, I expect the numbers to go the wrong way or stay substantially the same and I think there's zero chance PBC signs a lease with early termination fees nor a lease without conditional opt out at around the 10 and 15 year marks.

I would hope the city starts with numbers slightly more aggressive than the above and make sure that if the Thunder's counteroffer is substantially far off from ours that it leak to the media that the Thunder are not negotiating in good faith and that a lease may not happen even though we voted to build them a new arena. Since absolutely nothing has come out on what has been discussed, it's not like the Thunder could call the city out. Post "Yes" vote will be the last and only time the city will have any negotiating power with the Thunder, but I don't expect we'll take the opportunity. We seem just to be grateful they're considering staying and don't believe we have much to offer.

[Teo9969]

OKC also needs to figure out the lease with ASM. Per the review submitted to city council, the city generated $2.2M in sales tax which pencils out to $55M in annual in-arena revenue, so we're getting eaten alive by ASM. Let's say the Thunder bring in ~$25M of that amount, $30M gross revenue should not end in us losing $5M+

[chssooner]

Based on how this deal has gone so far, I expect the numbers to go the wrong way or stay substantially the same and I think there's zero chance PBC signs a lease with early termination fees nor a lease without conditional opt out at around the 10 and 15 year marks.

I would hope the city starts with numbers slightly more aggressive than the above and make sure that if the Thunder's counteroffer is substantially far off from ours that it leak to the media that the Thunder are not negotiating in good faith and that a lease may not happen even though we voted to build them a new arena. Since absolutely nothing has come out on what has been discussed, it's not like the Thunder could call the city out. Post "Yes" vote will be the last and only time the city will have any negotiating power with the Thunder, but I don't expect we'll take the opportunity. We seem just to be grateful they're considering staying and don't believe we have much to offer.

Well you already have it set in your mind. No sense for city council to try now. You've got it handled.

And it is because we don't have much to offer! That is the point. We have no leverage. NO other team in OKC that we could hang out hat on. OU is in Norman, OSU, Stillwater. No team has ever mentioned OKC as ever a remote, possible relocation destination. People on here don't want to hear it, but what does OKC have to offer on a national, grand scale to compensate for losing the Thunder? Nothing, zip, nada.

[Teo9969]

Well you already have it set in your mind. No sense for city council to try now. You've got it handled.

And it is because we don't have much to offer! That is the point. We have no leverage. NO other team in OKC that we could hang out hat on. OU is in Norman, OSU, Stillwater. No team has ever mentioned OKC as ever a remote, possible relocation destination. People on here don't want to hear it, but what does OKC have to offer on a national, grand scale to compensate for losing the Thunder? Nothing, zip, nada.

Man, I don't know what to tell you other than that you should probably get out of OKC. If the Thunder are all that this city has to offer you, you're missing out on most of what life has to offer you. Have you ever lived outside of Oklahoma?

[EtanEiko]

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly certain George Shinn made a pretty serious attempt to keep the Hornets here for good after the successful temp home we gave them. And IDK how serious it ever got but I feel like I remember the Pittsburg Penguins having at least very early discussions of a relocation here when they were seeking a new arena in Pittsburg.

OKC has actually turned into a very fun and entertain place to live and play and enjoy life (and compared to other cities its size extremely affordable) . I live in Bethany so unfortunately cannot vote 12/12 although I'd certainly be voting yes but comparing or grouping or tying OKC's quality of life to the Thunder isn't very serious thinking. I'd say probably 98% of the fun I have in the city (metro) has absolutely nothing to do with the Thunder. and again I LOVE the Thunder I'm very proud to say I am from OKC and I'm a Thunder fan, I'd be crushed if they left but them leaving certainly wouldn't affect much in my life in the long run.

Well you already have it set in your mind. No sense for city council to try now. You've got it handled.

And it is because we don't have much to offer! That is the point. We have no leverage. NO other team in OKC that we could hang out hat on. OU is in Norman, OSU, Stillwater. No team has ever mentioned OKC as ever a remote, possible relocation destination. People on here don't want to hear it, but what does OKC have to offer on a national, grand scale to compensate for losing the Thunder? Nothing, zip, nada.

[Dob Hooligan]

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly certain George Shinn made a pretty serious attempt to keep the Hornets here for good after the successful temp home we gave them. And IDK how serious it ever got but I feel like I remember the Pittsburg Penguins having at least very early discussions of a relocation here when they were seeking a new arena in Pittsburg.

OKC has actually turned into a very fun and entertain place to live and play and enjoy life (and compared to other cities its size extremely affordable) . I live in Bethany so unfortunately cannot vote 12/12 although I'd certainly be voting yes but comparing or grouping or tying OKC's quality of life to the Thunder isn't very serious thinking. I'd say probably 98% of the fun I have in the city (metro) has absolutely nothing to do with the Thunder. and again I LOVE the Thunder I'm very proud to say I am from OKC and I'm a Thunder fan, I'd be crushed if they left but them leaving certainly wouldn't affect much in my life in the long run.

I recall the NBA was pretty direct with Mr. Shinn that they were not going to let him stay in OKC. The reason I recall reading was that he had screwed up 2 markets already (Charlotte and New Orleans. He had issues in NO before the hurricane) and they didn't want him to do it again. He only lasted about 5 more years in NO, IIRC.

[chssooner]

Man, I don't know what to tell you other than that you should probably get out of OKC. If the Thunder are all that this city has to offer you, you're missing out on most of what life has to offer you. Have you ever lived outside of Oklahoma?

I don't even go to Thunder games. Maybe 5 in my life.

But I know plenty of people from other cities (Portland, Hartford, CT, Birmingham, AL, etc.) and the first thing they mentioned when I said I was from OKC was "How about the Thunder?" So I know damn well how big the Thunder help OKC. No one ask about the Convention Center, or crappy roads, or anything you might think. So from a national perspective, OKC has very little, aside from the Thunder. I am not talking about locally. Of course we know more about OKC than they do. But perception is reality. The perception about OKC and Oklahoma, nationally, is not good. So having a positive like the Thunder is huge.

[EtanEiko]

Yes, absolutely correct and agree the NBA wasn't going to let that happen but he did want to keep them here, which contradicts what the poster was saying.


QUOTE=Dob Hooligan;1249859]I recall the NBA was pretty direct with Mr. Shinn that they were not going to let him stay in OKC. The reason I recall reading was that he had screwed up 2 markets already (Charlotte and New Orleans. He had issues in NO before the hurricane) and they didn't want him to do it again. He only lasted about 5 more years in NO, IIRC.[/QUOTE]

[Cocaine]

I’m curious on if this is really socialism for billionaires though.

https://okcfox.com/news/local/social...der-arena-deal