New Downtown Arena

[BoulderSooner]

The one thing I’m most curious about is how do we host 2 thunder games a day off in between them with Adam Sandler right in the middle in that open day. All from December 7th to 9th. Or from January 31st to February 3rd three thunder games, Toby Mack and tool. How is any of this possible with the loading docks. Or Katt Williams then the winter jam back to back on march 15th and 16th. I’m all for a new arena if the thunder pay up more money, and there is a guarantee the other half of the advertising revenue goes into off setting the cost of the arena. As well as the city gets rid of those thunder tax cuts so they can pay their fair share.

Voting no will not make them leave they’ll try again with a deal on better terms for the city.. There are like 17 arenas older than paycom in the nba. And 5 that you could maybe consider built in the same era along with 7 significantly newer. Soon to be eight when the new clippers arena opens. Would we really say Houston, San Antonio or Mephis better vote for a new arena. I just can’t believe people are letting fear drive them into shelling out a billion dollars. Wait and a better deal will come.

thunder games don't require the load docks or event (the temp event) storage at all ..


keep in mind that all of the buildings that opened from (lets just use 1994) except NOLA where built state of the art for the NBA and for the most part are massive in size ..

memphis is getting ready to do a gov funded 550mil +/- renovation of their building .. (if the peake was built on a bigger space / footprint this would be an option for us)
MSG recenly had a renovation that cost more then our new arena will
philly is getting a new arena
boston got a 100mil renovation

atlanta just had a mulit hundred mil renovation (again not an option for OKC)
spurs are getting a new arena soon

[SouthOKC]

thunder games don't require the load docks or event (the temp event) storage at all ..


keep in mind that all of the buildings that opened from (lets just use 1994) except NOLA where built state of the art for the NBA and for the most part are massive in size ..

memphis is getting ready to do a gov funded 550mil +/- renovation of their building .. (if the peake was built on a bigger space / footprint this would be an option for us)
MSG recenly had a renovation that cost more then our new arena will
philly is getting a new arena
boston got a 100mil renovation

atlanta just had a mulit hundred mil renovation (again not an option for OKC)
spurs are getting a new arena soon

Is there any stats on the size comparison for Paycom vs. BOK center or Paycom vs. comparable arenas? Specifically for the loading docks.

It’s a shame that we’re missing out on 7-9 major concerts per year and the economic impact that could drive. Guessing that could be millions of dollars per year. However, it appears as though we have a sizable amount underutilized space to the southeast fronting OKC blvd. is there a reason the city can’t incorporate that as part of the loading/unloading footprint?

[TheTravellers]

The one thing I’m most curious about is how do we host 2 thunder games a day off in between them with Adam Sandler right in the middle in that open day. All from December 7th to 9th. Or from January 31st to February 3rd three thunder games, Toby Mack and tool. How is any of this possible with the loading docks. Or Katt Williams then the winter jam back to back on march 15th and 16th. I’m all for a new arena if the thunder pay up more money, and there is a guarantee the other half of the advertising revenue goes into off setting the cost of the arena. As well as the city gets rid of those thunder tax cuts so they can pay their fair share. ...

Thunder equipment and flooring is already in the arena and just needs to be taken up/put down. Stand up comedians have almost no equipment requirements, just them and a stool/chair/whatever, nowhere close to a major show requiring 4-5 (or more) semi trailers worth of gear. Back-to-back concerts/big shows is the issue, not Thunder game/show/Thunder game or stand-up/Thunder/stand-up or something similar...

[Dob Hooligan]

Here's what I know...I'm getting a brand new, "State Of The Art" arena for Not A Penny More than I'm already paying!

I can't buy a new car or house for not a penny more than I'm already paying. And I darn sure couldn't do it with a 20 year old trade in.

I think our city and county elected officials enjoy strong support because they have shown the ability to live up to the trust we have given them. Seems that everyone involved in the arena plan from the city and Thunder are life long Oklahoma Cityans who know and trust each other, and want to arrive at a fair result for all involved. I know that is why I voted for my City Councilor and Mayor.

"Not A Penny More Than You're Already Paying". Sounds like a winning slogan to me.

[SouthOKC]

Here's what I know...I'm getting a brand new, "State Of The Art" arena for Not A Penny More than I'm already paying!

I can't buy a new car or house for not a penny more than I'm already paying. And I darn sure couldn't do it with a 20 year old trade in.

I think our city and county elected officials enjoy strong support because they have shown the ability to live up to the trust we have given them. Seems that everyone involved in the arena plan from the city and Thunder are life long Oklahoma Cityans who know and trust each other, and want to arrive at a fair result for all involved. I know that is why I voted for my City Councilor and Mayor.

"Not A Penny More Than You're Already Paying". Sounds like a winning slogan to me.

It will cost at least $900M+ more than you’ve paid right now. The sales tax will continue and there will be interest costs associated with a loan.

That reasoning would be similar to a car salesman when they ask you about monthly payment target vs. the price of the car.

[Dob Hooligan]

It will cost at least $900M+ more than you’ve paid right now. The sales tax will continue and there will be interest costs associated with a loan.

That reasoning would be similar to a car salesman when they ask you about monthly payment target vs. the price of the car.

Of course it would. Please do not think I am being disrespectful or dismissive when I type "I acknowledge what you are saying, I just do not agree".

I have followed sports leagues business and franchise movement for over 50 years. Pathetic, I know. But here is what I have observed....when I type "mayor" it is short for elected city government.

Mayors who keep teams get reelected.

Mayors who lose teams don't get reelected.

City histories never complain about retaining a team, or the cost involved.

City histories never forgive losing a team, regardless of the negotiations involved.

[SouthOKC]

Of course it would. Please do not think I am being disrespectful or dismissive when I type "I acknowledge what you are saying, I just do not agree".

I have followed sports leagues business and franchise movement for over 50 years. Pathetic, I know. But here is what I have observed....when I type "mayor" it is short for elected city government.

Mayors who keep teams get reelected.

Mayors who lose teams don't get reelected.

City histories never complain about retaining a team, or the cost involved.

City histories never forgive losing a team, regardless of the negotiations involved.

I agree with you on that point. Mayor Holt is doing everything he can to keep the Thunder in OKC. Including pushing one of the most one-sided sports arena deals ever. I believe his hands are tied and this is what it’ll take to keep the team in OKC.

[Cocaine]

thunder games don't require the load docks or event (the temp event) storage at all ..


keep in mind that all of the buildings that opened from (lets just use 1994) except NOLA where built state of the art for the NBA and for the most part are massive in size ..

memphis is getting ready to do a gov funded 550mil +/- renovation of their building .. (if the peake was built on a bigger space / footprint this would be an option for us)
MSG recenly had a renovation that cost more then our new arena will
philly is getting a new arena
boston got a 100mil renovation

atlanta just had a mulit hundred mil renovation (again not an option for OKC)
spurs are getting a new arena soon

Explain the katt Williams and winter jam back to back to dates if the loading docks are problem how can they have two different events like this back to back. The fact is do you think the thunder will have one of the 10 worst arenas in the nba before 2026? We can wait and the fact the thunder already approved a $116 million renovation with maps 4 obviously all of it will not be completed due to $70 mil being held back. But let’s stop acting like paycom is a dump and we must throw down 900 billion tomorrow or the thunder will be gone. Look at Salt Lake City or New Orleans do you think their arenas are not nba level and in desperate need of replacement or the team will leave. The fact is as a city we can wait voting no will not make the team leave and we honestly need better leadership from local officials in getting a better deal. Especially considering they cannot wait until the next maps expires then use cash NOT financing to build the new arena. A lot of people are about to get rich because a sizable portion of the city is voting in fear.

[chssooner]

Explain the katt Williams and winter jam back to back to dates if the loading docks are problem how can they have two different events like this back to back. The fact is do you think the thunder will have one of the 10 worst arenas in the nba before 2026? We can wait and the fact the thunder already approved a $116 million renovation with maps 4 obviously all of it will not be completed due to $70 mil being held back. But let’s stop acting like paycom is a dump and we must throw down 900 billion tomorrow or the thunder will be gone. Look at Salt Lake City or New Orleans do you think their arenas are not nba level and in desperate need of replacement or the team will leave. The fact is as a city we can wait voting no will not make the team leave and we honestly need better leadership from local officials in getting a better deal. Especially considering they cannot wait until the next maps expires then use cash NOT financing to build the new arena. A lot of people are about to get rich because a sizable portion of the city is voting in fear.

Katt Williams is not a big show. It is a comedy set up, which won't require a ton of trucks and loading/unloading.

[Laramie]

Here's what I know...I'm getting a brand new, "State Of The Art" arena for Not A Penny More than I'm already paying!

I can't buy a new car or house for not a penny more than I'm already paying. And I darn sure couldn't do it with a 20 year old trade in.

I think our city and county elected officials enjoy strong support because they have shown the ability to live up to the trust we have given them. Seems that everyone involved in the arena plan from the city and Thunder are life long Oklahoma Cityans who know and trust each other, and want to arrive at a fair result for all involved. I know that is why I voted for my City Councilor and Mayor.

"Not A Penny More Than You're Already Paying". Sounds like a winning slogan to me.

True, as was pointed out a $900+ million arena which could cost more--we're going to need a new arena with specifications to accommodate NBA and concerts as well as other events..

MAPS was envisioned by former Mayor Ron Norick triggered by the lost of a United Airlines Maintenance facility opportunity, MAPS is credited with keeping AAA baseball in OKC with the construction of the Bricktown Ballpark; also the Downtown arena which allowed our city a test run of the NBA by providing a temporary home for the New Orleans (Hornets) Pelicans. Oklahoma City had a population of 1.2 million in 2000 prior to our test run of the Hornets and the eventual relocation of the Supersonics purchased by a group of
Oklahoma businessmen who felt our city was ripe for Big League sports franchise in our state.

This is about a competitive 'Quality of Life' crown jewel facility in our city.

Let's build an arena that will meet the specifications of the NBA; while we are at it, build an arena that will be a Top Ten NBA venue.

[Rover]

Can you articulate exactly what prevents OKC from getting back 2 back concerts? Initially my understanding was we missed out on nights that larger artist might come to the Paycom due to the loading docks not being able to facilitate that quick of a turn around. Now it’s jumped to we’re missing out in general but the NBA games have little to no impact on that per a previous comment. So somethings not adding up here and it’s starting to sound like a bunch of biased opinions without any factual information backing the claims. As this narrative grows the opinions are starting to incorporate watching out of a window and relatives in the industry. I’m just curious if anyone has anything factual from a city representative?

You seem to be dismissive of any information you don’t provide. So why keep trying to tell you? “Family Members” with extensive, relevant and factual information vs cherry picked repetitive negative opinion. There is no information some will consider unless their opinion agrees with it. There are relatively very few negative posters here, but by heavens they are persistent. Lol.

[PhiAlpha]

Explain the katt Williams and winter jam back to back to dates if the loading docks are problem how can they have two different events like this back to back. The fact is do you think the thunder will have one of the 10 worst arenas in the nba before 2026? We can wait and the fact the thunder already approved a $116 million renovation with maps 4 obviously all of it will not be completed due to $70 mil being held back. But let’s stop acting like paycom is a dump and we must throw down 900 billion tomorrow or the thunder will be gone. Look at Salt Lake City or New Orleans do you think their arenas are not nba level and in desperate need of replacement or the team will leave. The fact is as a city we can wait voting no will not make the team leave and we honestly need better leadership from local officials in getting a better deal. Especially considering they cannot wait until the next maps expires then use cash NOT financing to build the new arena. A lot of people are about to get rich because a sizable portion of the city is voting in fear.

Use your brain. You don’t get out much if you think Katt Williams or Adam Sandler equate to a large scale concert in terms of equipment.

if you don’t care about the Thunder, that’s fine but you are absolutely okay with the potential of them leaving if you vote no here. There’s no guarantee of a second chance and continuing a penny sales tax for a few years will have no tangible negative impact on your life.

[SouthOKC]

You seem to be dismissive of any information you don’t provide. So why keep trying to tell you? “Family Members” with extensive, relevant and factual information vs cherry picked repetitive negative opinion. There is no information some will consider unless their opinion agrees with it. There are relatively very few negative posters here, but by heavens they are persistent. Lol.

I can appreciate personal viewpoints and opinions. However, this argument is now being used to support funding for a new arena. I asked if anyone had real data or factual information from the city to support these claims. It sounds like there is nothing outside of personal experiences that exists.

You don’t have any information of substance and neither does anyone else to this point. So your argument resorts to stating I don’t want to listen to your personal experiences… I’m more than willing to change my opinion when somebody says here are some examples of concerts we’ve missed on and it’s a problem because the city losses out on an opportunity for $x,xxx,xxx or here is a typical loading dock layout compared to the Paycom or we can’t expand our current load/unload footprint to due these (insert example) hurdles.

It comes off as a problem the city doesn’t want to address so it can be used as leverage for $900M in funding. I apologize directly to you if that reasoning comes off as negative and disagreeable.

[BoulderSooner]

It will cost at least $900M+ more than you’ve paid right now. The sales tax will continue and there will be interest costs associated with a loan.

That reasoning would be similar to a car salesman when they ask you about monthly payment target vs. the price of the car.

except it also needs to be said that 30-40% of your "car" will be paid for completly by someone else (non okc residents )

[BoulderSooner]

Including pushing one of the most one-sided sports arena deals ever..

this part is simply not true

[Cocaine]

Use your brain. You don’t get out much if you think Katt Williams or Adam Sandler equate to a large scale concert in terms of equipment.

if you don’t care about the Thunder, that’s fine but you are absolutely okay with the potential of them leaving if you vote no here. There’s no guarantee of a second chance and continuing a penny sales tax for a few years will have no tangible negative impact on your life.

Its not that I don't care about the thunder. I care more about the city getting a better deal than the current one on the ballot. Which is pretty trash especially considering we really do not need to accumulate debt to pay for this arena. So would it really be a bad thing if this ballot measure failed and they tried again in a year with better terms for the city. There is a massive lack of info and well its insulting for the city to say vote on this $900 million tax extention with such little information. When the fact is they could propose another maps that focuses on quality of life, public transportation education. Show me a state, city or country that spent too much on education.

You ever go to Singapore and think "man this country is trash because they spent all this money on public transportation and education." So even if they wait until say 2026 for a new vote then that's fine we have all the time in the world and there is no reason to rush to hurry up and sign for funding a new arena when leadership just isn't giving the people enough details. Voting no would give us time and I also think it might be a wake up call to the city council to actually put in effort. This current deal is insulting and it shows how much they think of the people of okc that they put the vote in December and they are basically saying "vote yes for back to back concerts and this is really the best deal the thunder could give us." People really shouldn't let the fear of the thunder leaving rope the city into tying up this sales tax for so long.

[Dob Hooligan]

I'm old enough to admit I don't know what I don't know.

But I do know we will never know what a good deal vs a bad deal is on an arena lease with a major sports team. Scores of lawyers who make thousands of dollars per billable hour are working to make sure the team gets what they want. We either work with mutual trust or we don't.

[Rover]

I'm old enough to admit I don't know what I don't know.

But I do know we will never know what a good deal vs a bad deal is on an arena lease with a major sports team. Scores of lawyers who make thousands of dollars per billable hour are working to make sure the team gets what they want. We either work with mutual trust or we don't.

Two things can be true at the same time. The Thunder can get what they want and the city can get what they need.

I don’t believe any lawyers are negotiating any contract at this time as there is nothing to negotiate until a new arena is improved.

[Dob Hooligan]

Two things can be true at the same time. The Thunder can get what they want and the city can get what they need.

I don’t believe any lawyers are negotiating any contract at this time as there is nothing to negotiate until a new arena is improved.

I'm guessing they have a verbal understanding of general parameters.

Is the Thunder the controlling Tenant? If so, will they---

Get $ from every event?

Get $ from every ticket?

Get $ from every F&B sale?

Get $ from all parking?

Get $ from every retail sale inside the facility?

Will the Thunder own and control all signage? And will the Thunder get $ from signage at every event?

Those are they type items that help decide if the city is getting a "good" or "bad" deal, IMO.

[Rover]

I'm guessing they have a verbal understanding of general parameters.

Is the Thunder the controlling Tenant? If so, will they---

Get $ from every event?

Get $ from every ticket?

Get $ from every F&B sale?

Get $ from all parking?

Get $ from every retail sale inside the facility?

Will the Thunder own and control all signage? And will the Thunder get $ from signage at every event?

Those are they type items that help decide if the city is getting a "good" or "bad" deal, IMO.

I thought I had seen where they indicated the new lease would essentially be the same terms as the current one with changes in certain lease rates.

[PhiAlpha]

Its not that I don't care about the thunder. I care more about the city getting a better deal than the current one on the ballot. Which is pretty trash especially considering we really do not need to accumulate debt to pay for this arena. So would it really be a bad thing if this ballot measure failed and they tried again in a year with better terms for the city. There is a massive lack of info and well its insulting for the city to say vote on this $900 million tax extention with such little information. When the fact is they could propose another maps that focuses on quality of life, public transportation education. Show me a state, city or country that spent too much on education.

You ever go to Singapore and think "man this country is trash because they spent all this money on public transportation and education." So even if they wait until say 2026 for a new vote then that's fine we have all the time in the world and there is no reason to rush to hurry up and sign for funding a new arena when leadership just isn't giving the people enough details. Voting no would give us time and I also think it might be a wake up call to the city council to actually put in effort. This current deal is insulting and it shows how much they think of the people of okc that they put the vote in December and they are basically saying "vote yes for back to back concerts and this is really the best deal the thunder could give us." People really shouldn't let the fear of the thunder leaving rope the city into tying up this sales tax for so long.

It’s not fear…it’s viewing it realistically. If the arena is approved, in all likelihood they will be in OKC for the next 25-30 years barring unforeseen circumstances like an irreversible economic downtown for the city or something like that. The arena doesn’t get approved? The conversation about them relocating starts nationally and while we may get another shot at it…you don’t know that we will…no one does. You also don’t know if it being rejected will end up resulting in a better deal for the city…you just assume it will. A no vote means you are okay with them potentially leaving and there’s no disputing that. Again, for what amounts to paying and charging visitors the same tax we’ve had since 1993 for a few more years…that’s not a hill I’m willing to die on…especially to fast track public transit that few will use (and no one has said that this is an either or situation anyway).

It’s hard to describe what the Thunder has meant to my generation and younger here, maybe some people just don’t get it and thats why they’re okay with potentially losing the team. You’re right…no one says Singapore sucks because they spent money on public transit…but many people, especially internationally, wouldn’t even know that OKC exists without the Thunder.

[PhiAlpha]

I’d be really interested to know the age demographics of those here who are for or against the arena and how long everyone has been in Oklahoma and/or OKC.

[Anonymous.]

An OKC Talk poll would be intriguing. However, people participating on this board are way more civic-aware of what is happening in OKC. So they would likely be more motivated to go vote. Meanwhile the loud social media people saying the team should fund their own arena, may not even know when the vote is taking place.

[BoulderSooner]

I'm guessing they have a verbal understanding of general parameters.

Is the Thunder the controlling Tenant? If so, will they---

Get $ from every event?

Get $ from every ticket?

Get $ from every F&B sale?

Get $ from all parking?

Get $ from every retail sale inside the facility?

Will the Thunder own and control all signage? And will the Thunder get $ from signage at every event?

Those are they type items that help decide if the city is getting a "good" or "bad" deal, IMO.

we already know the answer to these questions and it is no per the mayor the new lease with the team will substantially the same as the existing lease

[BoulderSooner]

I thought I had seen where they indicated the new lease would essentially be the same terms as the current one with changes in certain lease rates.

correct per the mayor