Winstar World Casino

[rlewis]

If Texas allows gambling, will the tribes that use to live there be allowed to open casinos?

They don't have to wait for legalization--they can start the process now. However, there is a high hurdle for a tribe to get land into trust (which would enable them to conduct casino gambling). The process usually takes 5-10 years.

I believe only 2 tribes have tried, and it was only recently that they were finally allowed to. The Tigua tribe in El Paso finally prevailed in federal court against the state. If there are any tribes that had any ideas of having casino gambling, that case should clear the way for them.

[BoulderSooner]

They don't have to wait for legalization--they can start the process now. However, there is a high hurdle for a tribe to get land into trust (which would enable them to conduct casino gambling). The process usually takes 5-10 years.

I believe only 2 tribes have tried, and it was only recently that they were finally allowed to. The Tigua tribe in El Paso finally prevailed in federal court against the state. If there are any tribes that had any ideas of having casino gambling, that case should clear the way for them.

not quite this simple

they can only operate "bingo games" because those are already legal in the rest of texas .. (which are class 2 slot machines) if the state of Texas banned bingo state wide (they won't do that ) they would also not be allowed to do that their casino .
https://www.elpasotimes.com/story/ne...go/7635148001/


also keep in mind generally for land to be put in trust status in needs to be very near reservation lands .. or on reservation lands ..

and that massively limits where tribes could open casinos in texas ..

[chssooner]

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...a-destination/

I know, blocked by pay wall. But the headline gives you the idea of what Texas will do with casinos. No tribal casinos. Mega, Vegas-style ones. And I'd bet there will be tons of them.

[BoulderSooner]

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...a-destination/

I know, blocked by pay wall. But the headline gives you the idea of what Texas will do with casinos. No tribal casinos. Mega, Vegas-style ones. And I'd bet there will be tons of them.

“My goal, and we’d partner with Las Vegas Sands, is when we build a new arena it’ll be in the middle of a resort and casino,” Cuban told The News. “That’s the mission.”

What he’s not good at, he said, is trying to take a guess at what a politician might do.


In May, the Texas House essentially killed legislation backed by casino company Las Vegas Sands that would have allowed a pathway for the kinds of resorts Cuban is interested in.

While a new stadium might not be underway yet, Cuban hopes it’s in the future for the Mavericks. In April, $18.5 million was put into the American Airlines Center for new video boards and seats, a product of the stadium’s staff, Cuban and Dallas Stars owner, Tom Gaglardi.

“It’s a great sports town,” Cuban said. “People get excited about sports here, and it’s a good thing.”

more like what cuban wants with 0 indication that the texas legislature would ever let it happen

[chssooner]

more like what cuban wants with 0 indication that the texas legislature would ever let it happen

It will happen in the next 10 years, bank on it. So the tribes here need to plan for it, and adjust their casino strategies accordingly.

[Plutonic Panda]

It will happen in the next 10 years, bank on it. So the tribes here need to plan for it, and adjust their casino strategies accordingly.

I wish they’d build a mega resort theme park, deepest artificial dive park, F1 racing track, and tons of other stuff to make this area a destination.

[dankrutka]

It will happen in the next 10 years, bank on it. So the tribes here need to plan for it, and adjust their casino strategies accordingly.

It seems like the Chickasaw Nation has been diversifying their economic investments for years, but it's hard to see how casinos in Texas wouldn't immediately kill Winstar, no?

[Snowman]

It seems like the Chickasaw Nation has been diversifying their economic investments for years, but it's hard to see how casinos in Texas wouldn't immediately kill Winstar, no?

Calling it immediately seems overblown, more likely would be end of expansion and over time scaling back staff/services, with plausibly dying at least a couple to few decades down the road when the decision is major renovation or closure. It also seems like few would prioritize investing money in a casino between Oklahoma border and those likely built in/near Dallas, since there will be plenty of other areas of Texas with less competition for years, so while shrinks their base of regulars, there are plenty of casinos that continue on in regions with less people.

[Dob Hooligan]

I recall there is very little tribal land in Texas. Seems like it is almost all near El Paso. A tribal casino needs to be in a documented tribal area IIRC. Although it is "possible" a tribe could do a land swap outside of their tribal area, it is very complex and politically unpopular for all parties other than the tribe attempting to pull it off.

I think the Chickasaw still operate the horse track in Dallas under the same corporate entity that owns Remington Park, so they already have a foothold in the Metroplex.

I think WinStar and Choctaw casinos have both been built with the intent to gradually expand them into a more resort focus. A chance to get away from the big city for the weekend and have access to lakes, golf and traditional casino entertainment.

Las Vegas Sands has been spending millions lobbying the Texas legislature for the last 10 years. Texas is seen as the last big gambling opportunity in the US, and Sands is pretty much (if not all the way) out of the US gambling business at this time.

I recall the only thing gaining any traction in Texas is a plan for a limited number of massive casino-resorts in designated areas. Something like $10 billion plus developments. It doesn't look like Texas is going to be as "wide open" as Oklahoma's restricted casino population.

[Jeepnokc]

It will be interesting to see how many other big private gaming companies pair up and move into OK. Most of tribes have seemed to operate without any partnerships. We will be more likely to go to casinos partnered with Vegas gambling groups if we can earn pints and status for rewards and comps

https://www.500nations.com/casinos/ok-harrahs.asp

[Dob Hooligan]

It will be interesting to see how many other big private gaming companies pair up and move into OK. Most of tribes have seemed to operate without any partnerships. We will be more likely to go to casinos partnered with Vegas gambling groups if we can earn pints and status for rewards and comps

https://www.500nations.com/casinos/ok-harrahs.asp

Well…that’s a deep subject….. I think the Indian Gaming Act was passed about 35 years ago, and casino growth overall exploded along this same timeline. The industry overall has matured, and almost all tribes tribes have done a great job of building and owning their businesses. Not much of the “Casino Jack” stuff going on anymore.

So, most of the United States now have mature markets with capitalized and competent operators. This will probably mean some cross promotions, but not many full on partnerships, at least in Oklahoma.

This reminds me, about 10-15 years ago, while the company was still called Harrah’s and Gary Loveman was CEO, they were in a partnership with a tribe that went sour. Notable was that the tribe claimed all litigation had to go through their tribal court system. Don’t remember the outcome, but it gave pause to some of the non-tribal companies.

[Jersey Boss]

It seems like the Chickasaw Nation has been diversifying their economic investments for years, but it's hard to see how casinos in Texas wouldn't immediately kill Winstar, no?

There will not be a casino ? on the Texas ballot this year. Which means earliest is 2025.
Dan Patrick is against it and it needs 2/3 of legislative approval to get on the ballot.
I wouldn't hold your breath

[BoulderSooner]

I recall the only thing gaining any traction in Texas is a plan for a limited number of massive casino-resorts in designated areas. Something like $10 billion plus developments. It doesn't look like Texas is going to be as "wide open" as Oklahoma's restricted casino population.

that is the model that Massachusetts did

[chssooner]

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/lo...5-cd675738f00b

Only the first step. Once gambling is legalized in Texas, it will truly, truly hurt Oklahoma gambling. It won't kill it, but Winstar and Choctaw Grand will have a lot of hotel rooms that will not be used any longer.

Super-casino resorts will bring Vegas to 1.5 hours south of Durant and Thackerville.

[Dob Hooligan]

I would suggest Jerry Jones and "Mr. Houston" Tilman Fertitta (Golden Nugget casinos, Landry's Seafood, Houston Rockets, University of Houston, etc.) have been working harder and longer to get casino gambling legalized in Texas. Las Vegas Sands buys some land close to where the Dallas Cowboys have been for over 50 years. Not sure how that changes anything?

I think the Texas legislature sees D/FW as Texoma and not a part of the "true" Texas. And, so far as casino gambling is concerned, their main question is..."How close do you want the whorehouse to your church?"

[Swake]

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/lo...5-cd675738f00b

Only the first step. Once gambling is legalized in Texas, it will truly, truly hurt Oklahoma gambling. It won't kill it, but Winstar and Choctaw Grand will have a lot of hotel rooms that will not be used any longer.

Super-casino resorts will bring Vegas to 1.5 hours south of Durant and Thackerville.

A "super-casino resort"? You mean like Winstar? It is already the largest casino in the world.

[chssooner]

A "super-casino resort"? You mean like Winstar? It is already the largest casino in the world.

But it is different than a Vegas-stye resort, and you know it.

And it was VERY largely built on the dollars of Texans. But if they don't have to cross the border to gamble, and then not have to pay income tax on winnings, yeah. Oklahoma gambling income will go down probably 50% or more.

[scottk]

But it is different than a Vegas-stye resort, and you know it.

And it was VERY largely built on the dollars of Texans. But if they don't have to cross the border to gamble, and then not have to pay income tax on winnings, yeah. Oklahoma gambling income will go down probably 50% or more.

Yes. If a Venetian/Wynn style resort is built IN DFW, then WinStar's appeal really goes down with distance. Tulsa is fortunate to have two nice resorts in RiverSpirit and Hard Rock, but even they can't match what Vegas offers in size and scale, but far enough away from DFW they may not be impacted too much. However, as much advertising and naming rights as Choctaw Casino Resort and WinStar do in DFW, I can't imagine they wouldn't try to compete with a physical location (if that is possible?).

[chssooner]

Yes. If a Venetian/Wynn style resort is built IN DFW, then WinStar's appeal really goes down with distance. Tulsa is fortunate to have two nice resorts in RiverSpirit and Hard Rock, but even they can't match what Vegas offers in size and scale, but far enough away from DFW they may not be impacted too much. However, as much advertising and naming rights as Choctaw Casino Resort and WinStar do in DFW, I can't imagine they wouldn't try to compete with a physical location (if that is possible?).

The biggest thing Oklahoma casinos are missing is retail. None have more than a couple glorified gift shops. I think a true retail component could help them, in the case of a Sands-type resort in DFW.

[Rover]

The biggest thing Oklahoma casinos are missing is retail. None have more than a couple glorified gift shops. I think a true retail component could help them, in the case of a Sands-type resort in DFW.

I thought the Sands was demolished years ago, and the Venetian built on the site.

[soonergolfer]

I thought the Sands was demolished years ago, and the Venetian built on the site.

The Sands hotel was demolished, but there is still a Sands Corporation. They own the Venetian and several big casinos in Asia.

[Rover]

The Sands hotel was demolished, but there is still a Sands Corporation. They own the Venetian and several big casinos in Asia.

Sure.. I worked on the Venetians and others.

But to the earlier point, there is limited retail. The high end retail is possible mostly by high roller spending and others who have just won a bundle. Does the fact that this is so close to Dallas with its shopping, and the fact that the overwhelming percent of visitors at this time are commuters change the shopping calculus?

[Jeepnokc]

The Sands hotel was demolished, but there is still a Sands Corporation. They own the Venetian and several big casinos in Asia.

Sands sold off Venetian and Palazzo in 2021.

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2021/ma...ands-expo-for/

[chssooner]

Sands sold off Venetian and Palazzo in 2021.

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2021/ma...ands-expo-for/

They still have a bunch in Macau. If one of those gets built in DFW, it may be over for Winstar and Choctaw Grand.

[soonergolfer]

They still have a bunch in Macau. If one of those gets built in DFW, it may be over for Winstar and Choctaw Grand.

It is interesting that the Adelson family (Sands Corp) purchased the Mavericks from Mark Cuban. That can’t be a coincidence. They have to feel pretty confident of in the future of gambling in Texas.