OAK (formerly Penn Central)

[Pete]

It's such a cool development. I keep hoping and praying for an Eataly, but I don't see it happening. The location at Dallas NorthPark is 46,000 sf and most of the other locations are 40-45,000 sf. It would be a huge get for development.

If 50 Penn was smart, they'd build out the base of the building towards Penn and try to land Eatly or something similar.

[warreng88]

If 50 Penn was smart, they'd build out the base of the building towards Penn and try to land Eatly or something similar.

Yeah, there is so much potential across the street, but I met the owners (out of Florida, if I remember correctly) and I don't think they are into spending what it would take to attract a tenant like that. There is already a parking garage (one level) to the south of the building. If they could build that up and then develop everything facing Penn and Expressway, it would make the area so much better.

Honestly, if Ryan would buy that once OAK is close to being done and sink some money into, that would be the best case scenario.

[April in the Plaza]

Yeah, there is so much potential across the street, but I met the owners (out of Florida, if I remember correctly) and I don't think they are into spending what it would take to attract a tenant like that. There is already a parking garage (one level) to the south of the building. If they could build that up and then develop everything facing Penn and Expressway, it would make the area so much better.

Honestly, if Ryan would buy that once OAK is close to being done and sink some money into, that would be the best case scenario.

Wouldn’t it be more cost effective to expand westward, assuming the homes can be acquired at decent prices?

[Pete]

Wouldn’t it be more cost effective to expand westward, assuming the homes can be acquired at decent prices?

OAK already owns about a dozen homes west of the current development area.

[Tyson]

It's such a cool development. I keep hoping and praying for an Eataly, but I don't see it happening. The location at Dallas NorthPark is 46,000 sf and most of the other locations are 40-45,000 sf. It would be a huge get for development.

I wasn't thinking about the possibility of Eataly but wow that would be huge for OKC!! That or Shake Shack, I'm 100% satisfied. We need something nationally known that we don't have yet to draw more people into the area.

[Pete]

I wasn't thinking about the possibility of Eataly but wow that would be huge for OKC!! That or Shake Shack, I'm 100% satisfied. We need something nationally known that we don't have yet to draw more people into the area.

This is only speculation but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a Shake Shack at OAK.

SS loves these types of developments -- seems like the perfect fit.

[chssooner]

I do wonder what they will do with that land with the car detailer across the street they own. That is too small to do anything on, by itself. Has to be part of a bigger plan, right?

[Pete]

I do wonder what they will do with that land with the car detailer across the street they own. That is too small to do anything on, by itself. Has to be part of a bigger plan, right?

I'm sure they'll do another restaurant or retail building.

The lot is actually quite small.

[Oski]

It's such a cool development. I keep hoping and praying for an Eataly, but I don't see it happening. The location at Dallas NorthPark is 46,000 sf and most of the other locations are 40-45,000 sf. It would be a huge get for development.

One of the worst pasta dishes I've ever tried was at the Eataly store in Dallas. The marketplace is cool, but the restaurant isn't that good.

[BoulderSooner]

One of the worst pasta dishes I've ever tried was at the Eataly store in Dallas. The marketplace is cool, but the restaurant isn't that good.

let me guess you didn't think the pasta was cooked enough??



would love to know what you ordered?

[warreng88]

I do wonder what they will do with that land with the car detailer across the street they own. That is too small to do anything on, by itself. Has to be part of a bigger plan, right?

It wouldn't surprise me if they attempted to purchase the parking lots to the south of the red carpet fronting Penn.

[Oski]

let me guess you didn't think the pasta was cooked enough??



would love to know what you ordered?

No, the pasta was overcooked, I prefer al dente, but I understand it's tricky to cook pasta al dente in large batches. However, it isn't really the pasta, the sauce wasn't very boring, I tried the Tagliatelle Alla Bolognese and Ricciarelle Alla Trapanese, the sauces and fillings smelled and tasted like they had been sitting in the kitchen for some time. Tried the mozzarella as well, was hoping it would be more special than what we can buy from the grocery stores, but that's ok, it's only $9, what do we expect? We couldn't finished what we ordered, the only thing we didn't leave behind was probably the bread.

[warreng88]

One of the worst pasta dishes I've ever tried was at the Eataly store in Dallas. The marketplace is cool, but the restaurant isn't that good.

Interesting. We have been to two Eataly restaurants Northpark in Dallas (La Pizza & La Pasta and Terra) and then La Pizza and La Pasta in NYC Flatiron building and always had a good experience.

[Shortsyeararound]

Interesting. We have been to two Eataly restaurants Northpark in Dallas (La Pizza & La Pasta and Terra) and then La Pizza and La Pasta in NYC Flatiron building and always had a good experience.

Is the wanting of national chains to drive tourism to the area? We usually are local eateries only. Playing devil's advocate here, I can appreciate us getting something that is national but small in location size (someone noted the Ramsay place has only 4 locations). Eataly and others places like it will probably not get my dollar because I prefer to give my eating out cash to Picasso or Flips.

[TheTravellers]

Is the wanting of national chains to drive tourism to the area? We usually are local eateries only. Playing devil's advocate here, I can appreciate us getting something that is national but small in location size (someone noted the Ramsay place has only 4 locations). Eataly and others places like it will probably not get my dollar because I prefer to give my eating out cash to Picasso or Flips.

[warreng88]

Is the wanting of national chains to drive tourism to the area? We usually are local eateries only. Playing devil's advocate here, I can appreciate us getting something that is national but small in location size (someone noted the Ramsay place has only 4 locations). Eataly and others places like it will probably not get my dollar because I prefer to give my eating out cash to Picasso or Flips.

Yes and they only have 8 US locations. NYC (2), Vegas, Boston, Chicago, LA, Dallas and Silicon Valley. Also, it will drive foot traffic in the area, which in turn will benefit the other businesses in the area. Sort of an anchor tenant, if you will.

[Pete]

Is the wanting of national chains to drive tourism to the area? We usually are local eateries only. Playing devil's advocate here, I can appreciate us getting something that is national but small in location size (someone noted the Ramsay place has only 4 locations). Eataly and others places like it will probably not get my dollar because I prefer to give my eating out cash to Picasso or Flips.

What is local?

This in itself is almost impossible to define.

Hal Smith places? He has restaurants in several states. Clark Crew? Partnered with Famous Dave's and likely expanding out of state. Fuzzy's? Dave's? Like many places, franchisee is local but HQ is elsewhere. What about the ample places that have a slew of different investors, and a bunch of them are out of state? You'd be surprised by how many 'mom and pop' places have several outside investors.

Do you even know where the owner of any restaurant actually lives? Where the profit goes? (BTW, this applies equally to 'local' real estate developers, where the money is often flowing in and then back out of OKC.)


IMO, this 'local' topic is usually just virtue signaling because unless you know the owners personally and have seen their operating agreement and know all their partners, you literally have no idea which places are local, even if you could come up with a definition of what local is.


Not picking on anyone here, but this local thing comes up a lot and it's far more complicated than most people realize.

[warreng88]

I remember back when Classen Curve was brought up, Aubrey wanted only local shop and restaurants there and nothing else. Well, at that time, it was hard to place only local places but got Tuckers, Republic and Upper Crust, but when it came to retail, it was lacking. I didn't think it really did well until it was sold to Washington Prime Group who started bringing in a bunch of national retailers and filling all of the spots.

[Pete]

I remember back when Classen Curve was brought up, Aubrey wanted only local shop and restaurants there and nothing else. Well, at that time, it was hard to place only local places but got Tuckers, Republic and Upper Crust, but when it came to retail, it was lacking. I didn't think it really did well until it was sold to Washington Prime Group who started bringing in a bunch of national retailers and filling all of the spots.

He also did huge discounts, free build-outs and other give-aways with Chesapeake -- not his own -- money.

As soon as Washington Prime bought out those properties, almost none of the tenants Aubrey had signed up could come close to paying market rents. In fact, many defaulted even on the bargain leases they were provided and almost everyone else did not renew at fair market rates.

[warreng88]

I would like to see some "local" retailers here, but if it was all new to market national retailers, I wouldn't hate that either.

[Shortsyeararound]

What is local?

This in itself is almost impossible to define.

Hal Smith places? He has restaurants in several states. Clark Crew? Partnered with Famous Dave's and likely expanding out of state. Fuzzy's? Dave's? Like many places, franchisee is local but HQ is elsewhere. What about the ample places that have a slew of different investors, and a bunch of them are out of state? You'd be surprised by how many 'mom and pop' places have several outside investors.

Do you even know where the owner of any restaurant actually lives? Where the profit goes? (BTW, this applies equally to 'local' real estate developers, where the money is often flowing in and then back out of OKC.)


IMO, this 'local' topic is usually just virtue signaling because unless you know the owners personally and have seen their operating agreement and know all their partners, you literally have no idea which places are local, even if you could come up with a definition of what local is.


Not picking on anyone here, but this local thing comes up a lot and it's far more complicated than most people realize.

Please don’t assume “virtue signaling” on me. I don’t have an agenda or “know” anyone that owns the restaurants we frequent. I listed two (Picasso and Flips) and I’ll mention 2 more (Casa Perico and The Wedge)- if they aren’t local or their backers aren’t local then please correct me.

[Pete]

Please don’t assume “virtue signaling” on me. I don’t have an agenda or “know” anyone that owns the restaurants we frequent. I listed two (Picasso and Flips) and I’ll mention 2 more (Casa Perico and The Wedge)- if they aren’t local or their backers aren’t local then please correct me.

Yes, my apologies, I was not responding to you directly but this subject in general.

I don't know about Flips but do no the group that owns The Wedge has a bunch of investors.

[Dob Hooligan]

I remember back when Classen Curve was brought up, Aubrey wanted only local shop and restaurants there and nothing else. Well, at that time, it was hard to place only local places but got Tuckers, Republic and Upper Crust, but when it came to retail, it was lacking. I didn't think it really did well until it was sold to Washington Prime Group who started bringing in a bunch of national retailers and filling all of the spots.

I know he also had no problem running Crescent Market out in order to make sure Whole Foods didn't have to endure what little competition Crescent might have been.

[fromdust]

I wasn't thinking about the possibility of Eataly but wow that would be huge for OKC!! That or Shake Shack, I'm 100% satisfied. We need something nationally known that we don't have yet to draw more people into the area.

I'll admit SS would be cool for okc because of the name, but other than that I do not see the appeal. Was super hyped to try it and when in Manila I finally had the chance, man, the hype vanished instantly. Not good at all.

[Ginkasa]

On the general topic of "local", but speaking for myself, when I think "local" I'm really thinking unique. Not necessarily single location, but specific to OKC or OK. And if its larger than OK then something that started here and spread out from there. This is more a perception thing than a financial thing. I don't generally care about the investors in this regard. So, The Jones Assembly I would consider "local". Fuzzy's I would not despite being the same group behind them.

Essentially, its the rule of cool. Its "cool" to have a nice place, a tasty place, a fun place that I can go to and brag about and take people from out of town to. If its in other places its "cool" to know that it came from here and maybe I can visit the OG. The more places we have like that the "cooler" OKC and OK are. Who the investors are or where the money flows to doesn't really come into it at this level of consideration (although of course that is important at its own level; don't want to diminish that) and I expect a lot or most people who talk about "local" or thinking more in line with what I described.

And, for fairness, "cool" doesn't have to be "local". I don't think anyone would call the Gordon Ramsay spot in Chisholm Creek "local" in any way, but it is still "cool" in the way that we're one of only four locations. And of course its good to have new national retailers and restaurants coming in as well, but I think the "cool" has to be here first.