New Downtown Arena

[TheTravellers]

Media outlets have tried, but the owners are hiding behind Holt as they actively build 9-figure commercial developments on NW Expressway (The Oak) and Broadway Extension (The Half).

I pretty much never read the local media, so I don't know the answer to this - by "hiding behind", do you mean they are all saying "no comment" or "talk to Mayor Holt"?

[Laramie]

Ain't nothing jumping but the peas in the pot; they wouldn't be jumping if the water wasn't hot . . .

[GoOKC1991]

Man, it was only preseason but the atmosphere and energy tonight was absolutely incredible. The Chet vs Wemby hype was a big part of that but just wait until the regular season and this team is winning a ton of basketball games and in the playoffs for years to come as long as we keep this young core in tact.

The above is reason enough to vote yes on December 12th. Having an NBA team is special enough but a winning team? The fans who have abandoned the team will soon be flocking back and we will be selling the Paycom Center and the new arena out every single night and there is nothing better or bigger in OKC than that because with that the city, the restaurants, etc, everybody wins. THUNDER UP!

[Rover]

Media outlets have tried, but the owners are hiding behind Holt as they actively build 9-figure commercial developments on NW Expressway (The Oak) and Broadway Extension (The Half).

Seems like owners are making many great expensive investments in the city then. You should be happy.

Just curious which owners you think are hiding? They aren’t going to get into publicly negotiating or trying to convince the already set no voters.

[CitySooner]

Has that ever been confirmed or is it just the “do we really want to vote no and see if that will happen” attitude?

It doesn't need to be confirmed, the value of the team has blown up since they bought it. Anyone with a brain would explore a sale at this point. In fact - I think even with a new arena, changes are likely in the next decade. I'm not saying a complete sale, but the makeup of that group likely shifts at some point.

[PhiAlpha]

Man, it was only preseason but the atmosphere and energy tonight was absolutely incredible. The Chet vs Wemby hype was a big part of that but just wait until the regular season and this team is winning a ton of basketball games and in the playoffs for years to come as long as we keep this young core in tact.

The above is reason enough to vote yes on December 12th. Having an NBA team is special enough but a winning team? The fans who have abandoned the team will soon be flocking back and we will be selling the Paycom Center and the new arena out every single night and there is nothing better or bigger in OKC than that because with that the city, the restaurants, etc, everybody wins. THUNDER UP!

That’s coincidental and no big deal. We’ve been assured by several here and at least one member of the city council that all those 14k-18k people (most of whom don’t live downtown) would’ve been spending their money downtown on a random Monday night in October anyway. Nothing to see here. Don’t need a basketball team….uh…rich people are bad…umm kay? (Mr. Mackey Voice)

[PhiAlpha]

It doesn't need to be confirmed, the value of the team has blown up since they bought it. Anyone with a brain would explore a sale at this point. In fact - I think even with a new arena, changes are likely in the next decade. I'm not saying a complete sale, but the makeup of that group likely shifts at some point.

it already has a few times

[Mississippi Blues]

It doesn't need to be confirmed, the value of the team has blown up since they bought it. Anyone with a brain would explore a sale at this point. In fact - I think even with a new arena, changes are likely in the next decade. I'm not saying a complete sale, but the makeup of that group likely shifts at some point.

I agree but I’ll clarify further. Has it been confirmed that they would look into selling the team as a result of a no vote?

Looking into selling the team because the value of the team has gone from $350,000,000 to $1,880,000,000 and looking into selling because voters think you should pay more than $50,000,000 for an arena likely to surpass $1,000,000,000 in costs are vastly different situations.

[Mississippi Blues]

Claiming that the thunder may relocate if the vote doesn’t pass isn’t melodramatic or deceptive. It’s fact. No one here knows if we will get another shot at it before the team is sold. Pete and others have said they don’t think it will immediately go that way but they don’t know that any better than anyone else here does. I tend to think it would be hard to believe that the owners will just throw their hands up and say screw it after all the work they did to bring the team here and the success we’ve had since, especially after only 3-5 months form announcement to vote, but that just isn’t a chance I’m willing to take.

Read the post I responded to. What you said is far more realistic than what Laramie said.

[Mississippi Blues]

I can't believe people are arguing that a "no" vote won't be step one in losing the Thunder. Mind numbingly dumb.

I wish the owners would have ponied up more, but comparing OKC's situation with other cities is fraught with false equivalence.

For one, other cities don't actually own their arenas. OKC will be the owner of our arena. Will it be an albatross? There will be costs of maintenance and upkeep, but that's the cost of having an NBA and hopefully first-class arena.

Hopefully this arena will truly be something worthy of our investment, not only guaranteeing the Thunder remain in OKC but also offering a first-class venue for concerts and other events.

The cost of losing the Thunder, and the prestige that comes with it, would be great, and far greater than the investment the citizens will make to build a 21st Century arena. And, to be clear, we are overdue for a new arena. That we were able to make do with an $82 million arena (and the additional $250 million or so in improvements) for thirty years is remarkable. OKC has more than gotten its money's worth. That is a hell of a return on investment.

The arguments are getting circular in nature, and people seem to have made up their minds. If there were any doubt (probably not), I will be voting "yes." Respectfully disagree with those who will not but have trust the citizens of OKC will make the right call.

Not shocking that something so important seems so simple if you only bother looking at it in the context of “this is why I think it should happen.” The goofiest part of all this is still that trying to clarify what we know versus what is commentary gets people on a soapbox about why it needs to be done.

[Mississippi Blues]

Would it help if I told you some of us are not concerned with the direct quantifiable revenue measured by specific set KPIs?

I’m just fine with this being a giant vanity project for the city and it keeping the Thunder. I’m just fine with paying a $.01 sales tax so that I can brag to business clients and bring them to a world class facility for games and meetups. I’m good if we never fully see the city paid back in the limited measurables from some study. You’re only interested in data and not hearing from the people living it…

It’s not hard to understand that both aspects are necessary. No sense in making it out to be either “we make sure the numbers make sense” or “we build a dope new arena so I can flex to people.”

[PhiAlpha]

Read the post I responded to. What you said is far more realistic than what Laramie said.

Fair enough.

[SouthOKC]

It’s not hard to understand that both aspects are necessary. No sense in making it out to be either “we make sure the numbers make sense” or “we build a dope new arena so I can flex to people.”

Both aspects are not necessary. We can subsidize the new arena and fall short of ever being paid back when considering the data points used in the studies shared. If what Poli claims comes to fruition this will 100% prove that both aspects are NOT necessary. Due to it most likely passing.

He’s basically stated no matter the situation meaning size of city, number of pro teams, additional tourist attractions etc… there isn’t factual data that proves out a city investing hundreds of millions into an arena and recouping its investment. If I were to yield to that point we’re discussing this from a different place.

[PoliSciGuy]

Both aspects are not necessary. We can subsidize the new arena and fall short of ever being paid back when considering the data points used in the studies shared. If what Poli claims comes to fruition this will 100% prove that both aspects are NOT necessary. Due to it most likely passing.

He’s basically stated no matter the situation meaning size of city, number of pro teams, additional tourist attractions etc… there isn’t factual data that proves out a city investing hundreds of millions into an arena and recouping its investment. If I were to yield to that point we’re discussing this from a different place.

There's definitely a level where it makes sense, but it's well below a billion. What data are you seeing that prevents you from yielding to the countless studies that show that?

[Mississippi Blues]

Both aspects are not necessary. We can subsidize the new arena and fall short of ever being paid back when considering the data points used in the studies shared. If what Poli claims comes to fruition this will 100% prove that both aspects are NOT necessary. Due to it most likely passing.

He’s basically stated no matter the situation meaning size of city, number of pro teams, additional tourist attractions etc… there isn’t factual data that proves out a city investing hundreds of millions into an arena and recouping its investment. If I were to yield to that point we’re discussing this from a different place.

By both aspects, I’m talking about 1) sorting out the fine details to determine if or how well something works for the city, and 2) dreaming about how wonderful a new arena will be. I’m confident you’re aware but costs, percentages, funding, case studies, etc. aren’t just pulled out of thin air to disrupt the tranquility of development nerds. We can only control what we can control but again, no sense in burying our heads in the sand when it comes to possible data, no matter how much we want to jump forward to experiencing a beautiful, state of the art arena.

To my chagrin, I’ve followed along with the conversations. Having preferences is expected but it’s disingenuous to hand-wave away information that doesn’t align with those preferences. I’m not saying PoliSciGuy has been objective or directing that at you, but it’s silly how much any concern for details gets buried by those making desperate pleas on the ignorance of evaluating the deal for what it is since it’ll run off the only thing that makes Oklahoma City a livable place. If it doesn’t apply to our city then okay, let’s discuss why it doesn’t or how the data is incomplete or manipulated so those that do have concerns will feel better about voting yes, but brushing it off as unhinged citizens trying to ruin Oklahoma City has been the theme of this thread more than the arena itself.

[SouthOKC]

By both aspects, I’m talking about 1) sorting out the fine details to determine if or how well something works for the city, and 2) dreaming about how wonderful a new arena will be. I’m confident you’re aware but costs, percentages, funding, case studies, etc. aren’t just pulled out of thin air to disrupt the tranquility of development nerds. We can only control what we can control but again, no sense in burying our heads in the sand when it comes to possible data, no matter how much we want to jump forward to experiencing a beautiful, state of the art arena.

To my chagrin, I’ve followed along with the conversations. Having preferences is expected but it’s disingenuous to hand-wave away information that doesn’t align with those preferences. I’m not saying PoliSciGuy has been objective or directing that at you, but it’s silly how much any concern for details gets buried by those making desperate pleas on the ignorance of evaluating the deal for what it is since it’ll run off the only thing that makes Oklahoma City a livable place. If it doesn’t apply to our city then okay, let’s discuss why it doesn’t or how the data is incomplete or manipulated so those that do have concerns will feel better about voting yes, but brushing it off as unhinged citizens trying to ruin Oklahoma City has been the theme of this thread more than the arena itself.

There is a massive difference in Poli’s studies and the Mayors valuation placed on GOODWILL toward the city from building an arena. Without an economic impact study he views it as anecdotal.

Even still I’m stating we can concede that the studies linked earlier in the thread are correct based on the data points used. So my overall point is, now what? So the city won’t make back in direct economic impact what we the people invest into the arena. The point he is missing is all that matters is the anecdotal part of this because he diminishes how the people who vote view the new arena.

Facts don’t care about feelings. Votes don’t care about facts.

[SEMIweather]

…are we sure this is actually going to pass?

https://emersoncollegepolling.com/ok...roval-ratings/

Oklahoma City finalized plans last month to build a new downtown arena for the NBA team, the Oklahoma City Thunder, and plan to hold a citywide vote in December. Voters across the state were asked if they support or oppose a one percent sales tax for Oklahoma City residents to fund the new stadium.

A quarter of Oklahoma residents (25%) support this measure, 42% oppose it, and 34% are unsure or have no opinion. In Oklahoma City, approval is lower: 22% support the measure, 53% oppose it, and 25% are unsure.

“While the sample of Oklahoma City residents is limited, the results are clear: 53% oppose the 1% sales tax to fund the $900 million stadium, versus 22% who support the plan – a 30-point margin against the tax,” Matt Taglia, Senior Director at Emerson College Polling noted. “Statewide, Republicans are overwhelmingly opposed, 46% to 25% in support, while Democrats are less vocal in their opposition at 36% to 31% in support.”

[Jake]

This reminds me of when a few polls said the Hofmeister/Stitt race would be close and then it wound up a landslide.

[chssooner]

Might as well not even try now. Emerson has spoken.

2026, welcome to your Seattle Super Sonincs. No more mentions of OKC or the Thunder.

[PoliSciGuy]

…are we sure this is actually going to pass?

https://emersoncollegepolling.com/ok...roval-ratings/

Ho dang that's surprising. I don't think the proposal is that underwater, but given how the other findings of the poll (Biden, Stitt approval ratings) seem to jive with overall sentiment, that's certainly got to be worrying for the Mayor's office.

However, note that the only thing that matters here is the Oklahoma City poll, which, with only 82 respondents, is limited in generalizability.

[Jake]

Think the verbiage for the actual vote will lean much more into the “this isn’t a new tax, just a continuation” when the time comes.

[Thunderbolt]

The poll data says only 82 of the respondents live in Oklahoma City. That is not enough to be scientific.

They found 18 people who said they would be against it...

[LocoAko]

The poll data says only 82 of the respondents live in Oklahoma City. That is not enough to be scientific.

They found 18 people who said they would be against it...

You mean for the new arena.

They found 43 people against it.

[Anonymous.]

That poll is worrisome, even with the small sample.

The team needs to encourage the season ticket holders to go vote. Anyone here with season tickets?

[Tyson]

That poll is worrisome, even with the small sample.

The team needs to encourage the season ticket holders to go vote. Anyone here with season tickets?

The company I work for is in close partnership with the OKC Thunder so I get free tickets not necessarily with a pass. One of my employees also works part time for the Thunder specifically with the season pass holders and I'm wondering if there's much she and her team can do to encourage the pass holders... I'll have to talk with her and hear about what the team is planning right now.