New Downtown Arena

[April in the Plaza]

The likelihood of them selling and moving in our lifetimes is minute.

This is well said. Folks need to remember that the nba loves being the only pro sports ball team in a given msa and highly disfavors team relocations for obvious reasons.

For starters, it’s just bad for business.

If it were October 2025, I could buy part of what Holt is trying to sell.

[onthestrip]

As for the rest of my points on tax generation. Take into account an entire NBA team and staff living and working in the state. Plus we receive all income taxes from visiting players and staff. In the next decades there will likely be several players making $1MM per game. Those visiting salaries for 41 games per season + any playoffs is massive.

This thread is a classic Freakonomics 101. The hidden side of everything. No one here is talking about the loss of millions in income tax from these huge salaries that are only going up.

That is very hard to quantify.

But I will say that the lion's share of financial benefit from the Thunder goes to the state of Oklahoma and not the city of OKC. Remember that >50% of sales tax receipts are state revenue, not municipal revenue. There is no reason that the Thunder and OKC should not have received investment at that level. That's arguably the easiest second-hand financial impact to quantify given that you can easily multiply a reasonable percentage of the salary cap times 5% to get a portion of the tax revenues. That is at least $5M/year to the state coffers.

The Thunder are almost sure a net positive on OKC, but paying $1.5B probably flips that equation on its head drastically.

You all are forgetting that the Thunder get Quality Jobs Act money, the state literally subsidizes the salaries of players, coaches and other staff. It was a joke when it was done because we all knew they were coming to Oklahoma and didnt need the extra inducement. But 5% of their payroll is reimbursed to the thunder quarterly every year. Also, the state exempted sales taxes on tickets for pro sports. That allows the Thunder to obviously make more revenune from ticket sales.

The Thunder have it pretty good here. Pretty hilarious to see others claim with certainty they are gone if this vote fails.

[Laramie]

You all are forgetting that the Thunder get Quality Jobs Act money, the state literally subsidizes the salaries of players, coaches and other staff. It was a joke when it was done because we all knew they were coming to Oklahoma and didnt need the extra inducement. But 5% of their payroll is reimbursed to the thunder quarterly every year. Also, the state exempted sales taxes on tickets for pro sports. That allows the Thunder to obviously make more revenune from ticket sales.

The Thunder have it pretty good here. Pretty hilarious to see others claim with certainty they are gone if this vote fails.

Wouldn't want to test that the Thunder wouldn't leave, IMO is an overconfident remark. Because once they are gone, you're not going to be able to justify building a new arena to attract another NBA franchise. Just look at Seattle (OKC 2008), Vancouver (Memphis 2001), Kansas City (Sacramento 1985) and St. Louis (Atlanta 1968)--they built new arenas and to this day they still don't have a team (All larger MSAs than OKC.

And what about Oakland, they have one Big League franchise left (Athletics)--San Francisco (Warriors 2019), Las Vegas took the Raiders and aren't through molesting Oakland for MLB.

[SouthOKC]

You all are forgetting that the Thunder get Quality Jobs Act money, the state literally subsidizes the salaries of players, coaches and other staff. It was a joke when it was done because we all knew they were coming to Oklahoma and didnt need the extra inducement. But 5% of their payroll is reimbursed to the thunder quarterly every year. Also, the state exempted sales taxes on tickets for pro sports. That allows the Thunder to obviously make more revenune from ticket sales.

The Thunder have it pretty good here. Pretty hilarious to see others claim with certainty they are gone if this vote fails.

If the arena vote fails the LOCAL ownership could decide to sell the team. Then you’re most likely left with an out of state ownership group that will undoubtedly attempt to move the team.

The reason they have it good here is because they have all the negotiating power. Larger markets equal more money, bigger sponsors, and more fans to buy tickets…Acting like 5% payroll subsidies moves the need on a $1.5B business valuation is displaying a complete lack of understanding the bigger picture.

Clay Bennett has a team in Oklahoma City for a few primary reasons:
1. He’s a businessman and got lucky with an opportunity
2. The city works with the team to maintain profitability
3. He’s from Oklahoma and wants it here

He does not have it in Oklahoma City because it’s the most profitable location for an NBA team.

Even the NBA and it’s collective bargaining agreement is structured in a way to aid in the SMALLER MARKETS having a fighting chance.

[jccouger]

I'd vote yes even if we paid 100%

I'm not gonna risk losing the Thunder, they are too important to the city & I don't even care if we lose money overall.

[Rover]

The likelihood of them selling and moving in our lifetimes is minute.

Yeah, right. smh This is the same arrogance that lost Seattle the team in the first place. BTW, there are several areanas all ready to go.... Kansas City and Seattle chief among them. I'm pretty sure neither would require the owner to buy 50% of the arena that's already there.

[HOT ROD]

Wouldn't want to test that the Thunder wouldn't leave, IMO is an overconfident remark. Because once they are gone, you're not going to be able to justify building a new arena to attract another NBA franchise. Just look at Seattle (OKC 2008), Vancouver (Memphis 2001), Kansas City (Sacramento 1985) and St. Louis (Atlanta 1968)--they built new arenas and to this day they still don't have a team (All larger MSAs than OKC.

And what about Oakland, they have one Big League franchise left (Athletics)--San Francisco (Warriors 2019), Las Vegas took the Raiders and aren't through molesting Oakland for MLB.

Vancouver didn't build a new arena, it was already nice/big to begin with. But I hear/agree with your point.

SCARY THOUGHT!!! What if the ownership group moved the team - to TULSA!!! ??? And renamed it, the Oklahoma Thunder. ...

Now that'd ruffle some OKC heads. ..

[Tyson]

Vancouver didn't build a new arena, it was already nice/big to begin with. But I hear/agree with your point.

SCARY THOUGHT!!! What if the ownership group moved the team - to TULSA!!! ??? And renamed it, the Oklahoma Thunder. ...

Now that'd ruffle some OKC heads. ..

That's gonna be in my nightmares, Hot Rod

[PoliSciGuy]

Wouldn't want to test that the Thunder wouldn't leave, IMO is an overconfident remark. Because once they are gone, you're not going to be able to justify building a new arena to attract another NBA franchise. Just look at Seattle (OKC 2008), Vancouver (Memphis 2001), Kansas City (Sacramento 1985) and St. Louis (Atlanta 1968)--they built new arenas and to this day they still don't have a team (All larger MSAs than OKC.

And what about Oakland, they have one Big League franchise left (Athletics)--San Francisco (Warriors 2019), Las Vegas took the Raiders and aren't through molesting Oakland for MLB.

Seattle's arena is 100% privately funded and they're getting a team in the next few years, Vancouver's move in part was due to players not wanting to live in Canada and a weak Canadian dollar so that comparison doesn't really hold here since it wasn't a facility issue. Same thing in KC - the Kemper Arena was only 10 years old when the Sacramento move happened and is still used today for massive basketball tournaments. Those aren't really good comparisons at all.

[dankrutka]

Few would fault them if they sold, especially if an arena is shot down.

Why would few fault them? I'd absolutely be furious at them if they used their leverage to profit off tax payers and then sold when it wasn't immediately accepted. They'd deservedly be considered villains in Oklahoma. If they care about this community at all, they'd come back to the table if the voters vote no.

[April in the Plaza]

Yeah, right. smh This is the same arrogance that lost Seattle the team in the first place. BTW, there are several areanas all ready to go.... Kansas City and Seattle chief among them. I'm pretty sure neither would require the owner to buy 50% of the arena that's already there.

The T-Mobile Center wouldn’t be much of an upgrade. It was built in 2007 and would be one of the smallest arenas in the NBA (640,000 sf). Also, both the Royals and Chiefs are getting ready to ask KC/MO taxpayers for new stadiums. Asking for a new basketball arena on top of that would be a stretch. Plus, an NBA team would have to compete with arguably a top three program (nationally) in College Basketball, which consistently sells out Allen Fieldhouse. That doesn’t sound too fun, if you’re an NBA owner.

And Seattle? Haha, that would be the most embarrassing thing possible for this ownership group. That would never happen.

[Teo9969]

Why would few fault them? I'd absolutely be furious at them if they used their leverage to profit off tax payers and then sold when it wasn't immediately accepted. They'd deservedly be considered villains in Oklahoma. If they care about this community at all, they'd come back to the table if the voters vote no.

I mean if we were to not build anything at all.

[Rover]

The T-Mobile Center wouldn’t be much of an upgrade. It was built in 2007 and would be one of the smallest arenas in the NBA (640,000 sf). Also, both the Royals and Chiefs are getting ready to ask KC/MO taxpayers for new stadiums. Asking for a new basketball arena on top of that would be a stretch. Plus, an NBA team would have to compete with arguably a top three program (nationally) in College Basketball, which consistently sells out Allen Fieldhouse. That doesn’t sound too fun, if you’re an NBA owner.

And Seattle? Haha, that would be the most embarrassing thing possible for this ownership group. That would never happen.

Kansas City and St. Louis would love to have this team. You way underestimate KC. And then, Louisville has a great 20,000 seat arena ready to go and an appetitie for the NBA. Then, there is Las Vegas. Aneheim also is a possibility with a great arena and a huge population base even as a third LA area team. And lastly, Nashville is hunting another pro sports team and has a great arena.

On Seattle, not sure why you think it would be embarrasing to the Thunder... but it sure would be to OKC. All they have to say is that they wanted to stay there in the first place but the arena wasn't suitable then. It is now.

[OKC Guide]

I'd vote yes even if we paid 100%

I'm not gonna risk losing the Thunder, they are too important to the city & I don't even care if we lose money overall.

+1

[April in the Plaza]

Kansas City and St. Louis would love to have this team. You way underestimate KC. And then, Louisville has a great 20,000 seat arena ready to go and an appetitie for the NBA. Then, there is Las Vegas. Aneheim also is a possibility with a great arena and a huge population base even as a third LA area team. And lastly, Nashville is hunting another pro sports team and has a great arena.

On Seattle, not sure why you think it would be embarrasing to the Thunder... but it sure would be to OKC. All they have to say is that they wanted to stay there in the first place but the arena wasn't suitable then. It is now.

It would be extremely embarrassing for them and you know it.

[Rover]

It would be extremely embarrassing for them and you know it.

How? They would have taken it from Seattle and sold it back for a handsome profit while keeping them out of the market for nearly 20 years. It would be OKC not being able to hold onto it that would be the embarrasment. That is what Seattle people have always claimed would happen. Said they couldn't support it long term. We will see if they are right.

[chssooner]

It would be extremely embarrassing for them and you know it.

The only party embarrassed by this would be the city of OKC. Bragging for 15 years about having their team, and then having it go right back, yeah, OKC would be ridiculed.

[April in the Plaza]

The only party embarrassed by this would be the city of OKC. Bragging for 15 years about having their team, and then having it go right back, yeah, OKC would be ridiculed.

Wrong. That’s not the way that pro sports ball historians would look at it.

They’re not going to ridicule a small market city for a single no-vote. That’s just not the way the narrative would go, but I appreciate your effort. You made a very creative argument.

[HangryHippo]

Wrong. That’s not the way that pro sports ball historians would look at it.

They’re not going to ridicule a small market city for a single no-vote. That’s just not the way the narrative would go, but I appreciate your effort. You made a very creative argument.

Okay, but you’re wrong.

[April in the Plaza]

Okay, but you’re wrong.

Nope. You are, Clay.

But I feel you. I'd be trying to spin this hypothetical in my favor, too.

Why won't you guys talk to the press? Too scared?

[Pete]

Okay, everyone just calm down.

Please be respectful of all opinions.

[Rover]

Wrong. That’s not the way that pro sports ball historians would look at it.

They’re not going to ridicule a small market city for a single no-vote. That’s just not the way the narrative would go, but I appreciate your effort. You made a very creative argument.

They won’t ridicule them… they’ll just point out the city was too small to support them and those predicting it were right all along. They didn’t expect us to support them this long.

[Mississippi Blues]

Moral panicking about the gossip and chitchat that might pervade if whatever cursory token proposal is rejected is what Gigachad cities do, I’m sure.

[PhiAlpha]

I don’t care if the city could have and should have been more transparent during this process. I dont care if the owners of the team pay a dime for it. I’d vote yes if the proposal was for a $2 Billion arena and the city had to pay $5 billion out of pocket to built it with a guarantee that it would never recoup the cost. If you haven’t lived here since prior to 2008 and you’re against this…your opinion is trash…you don’t get it…go back to where you came from (I’m looking at you PoliSciBoy)

I was at our first playoff win in 2010 when no one gave us a chance and we came back from 18 down against the eventual NBA champion Lakers as a poor college student. It was one of the best environments I’ve ever experienced. I’ve never been in a stadium louder than that. One of the coolest sports experiences I’ve ever had. Winning the next game and then seeing the crowd give the team a standing ovation after we narrowly lost game 6 of that series was one of the coolest sports scenes I’ve ever seen.

I was also there in during game 6 against the spurs in 2012 when we knocked them off after trailing for most of 3 quarters which propelled us to the finals. The party spilled out into bricktown. It was all a massive affirmation to the progress we’ve made as a city for those who believed in OKC and decided to plant roots and stick around here.

If you weren’t here for any of that or the dumpster fire that the city was before MAPS/the Thunder/etc then you just don’t get it. If you left or just came back after things got better or moved here for whatever reason later on and aren’t for this plan…you don’t know crap about this city and I’m sure some other city would be happy to have you if you don’t like the plan and want to leave.

April in the Plaza, PoliSciBoy, and JoBethHamas can go kick rocks. Your opinions are trash. You are a bunch of freaking losers. I’m sorry that the big mean basketball players stuffed you in your lockers in high school.

Really wish we still had the OKCTalk meet ups so we could see who some of these nerds really are. Hallelujah. Holly Sh*t. Where’s the Tylenol. TEXAS SUCKS!

[Tyson]

I feel like I have read the same arguments over and over again for months. I'm glad there gets to be a community discussion over this but yikes... It wouldn't hurt to leave this thread alone until we have renderings or something cause nothing has changed.