University Town Center

[Jersey Boss]

That sucks but is not all that surprising.

The word "boondoggle" comes to mind

[FighttheGoodFight]

I didn't want to sound harsh in my initial response but it strains believability that costs would go up 100% AND the arena shrinks by 20%. I'd like a lot more details than what has been told so far.

I was being a bit facetious. We also have no clue the original build plan (that I can find online at least) or what this one includes. We would have to see those side by side to know the cost change.

I'm in a construction adjacent industry and costs are still very high. People are still underestimating what materials and labor now costs post-pandemic. Not 100% more though.

[Bowser214]

Weather Museum hopes to make Norman the place for all things weather with world-class facility.
The multimillion-dollar exhibit would be part of Norman's $1 billion entertainment district package announced this month.

https://www.koco.com/article/oklahom...useum/45328670

[Jersey Boss]

Weather Museum hopes to make Norman the place for all things weather with world-class facility.
The multimillion-dollar exhibit would be part of Norman's $1 billion entertainment district package announced this month.

https://www.koco.com/article/oklahom...useum/45328670

I haven't seen anything about where this place is located now or if it even is a thing now. What kind of financial resources it currently has or what is the backing entity?

[warreng88]

I haven't seen anything about where this place is located now or if it even is a thing now. What kind of financial resources it currently has or what is the backing entity?

Yeah, I had to look it up, but it is currently directly east of the proposed development, east of Flood on the south side of Rock Creek in a nondescript building. I looked at their website and the cost to enter is $7 for adults and $3 for children. They are only open Friday, Saturday and Sunday, 10-4. You can get a family membership for $50... For comparison, Science Museum of Oklahoma is $20.95 for adults and $15.95 for children and a family of six is $210 per year.

[Jersey Boss]

https://www.oudaily.com/news/enterta...9d8b160a2.html

Agenda for tonight City Council meeting amended to include discussion on proposed entertainment district and financing same.

[Jersey Boss]

https://www.oudaily.com/news/enterta...9d8b160a2.html

Agenda for tonight City Council meeting amended to include discussion on proposed entertainment district and financing same.

It should be noted that in Sept the public was told that 80% of the arena would be funded by private and University sources with Norman paying 20%.
The staff report submitted tonight calls for a 60% funding by the city and 40% by private and University sources. Plus the city would also be paying for the infrastructure upgrades. This info is in the provided link.
A classic boondoggle in the making.

[BoulderSooner]

It should be noted that in Sept the public was told that 80% of the arena would be funded by private and University sources with Norman paying 20%.

this is not what was said in Sept ..

80% of the entire plans 1 billion dollar cost would be privately funded ..

The proposed location for the district is planned at Rock Creek Road and 24th Avenue Northwest. 80% of the plan's $1 billion cost will be covered through private funds, with the remaining 20% coming through public sources.

https://www.oudaily.com/news/1-billi...95498c17f.html

[Jersey Boss]

this is not what was said in Sept ..

80% of the entire plans 1 billion dollar cost would be privately funded ..




https://www.oudaily.com/news/1-billi...95498c17f.html

That was September. This is 2 months later.
https://www.oudaily.com/news/enterta...9d8b160a2.html
A staff report posted as part of the agenda for Tuesday evening read:

“Under the proposal, a combination of University and private resources would combine to fund approximately 40% of the total arena construction costs, while the University would only use approximately 25% of the event dates. Team Norman has asked the City to consider funding the remainder of the construction costs as well as some additional infrastructure utilizing tax increment financing.”



If this arena is constructed it would be the smallest seat wise in the SEC. This is what Norman is being asked to fund?

[BoulderSooner]

That was September. This is 2 months later.
https://www.oudaily.com/news/enterta...9d8b160a2.html
A staff report posted as part of the agenda for Tuesday evening read:

“Under the proposal, a combination of University and private resources would combine to fund approximately 40% of the total arena construction costs, while the University would only use approximately 25% of the event dates. Team Norman has asked the City to consider funding the remainder of the construction costs as well as some additional infrastructure utilizing tax increment financing.”



If this arena is constructed it would be the smallest seat wise in the SEC. This is what Norman is being asked to fund?

nothing changed

[chssooner]

nothing changed

How did nothing change? Unless they were being intentionally vague with the costs of each element in the September meeting, and 80% of the total cost, while correct, is broken out amongst multiple items?

[jedicurt]

How did nothing change? Unless they were being intentionally vague with the costs of each element in the September meeting, and 80% of the total cost, while correct, is broken out amongst multiple items?

i mean i think they purposefully left it vague before... i think they are going to hit the 80% of the total overall development being university and private, but the arena is a big sunk cost that they won't be able to recoop the private investment on as quickly, so they are offing that more to the city.... so i wouldn't say bait and switch, but a purposeful misdirection to try and make it sound good to the citizens

[BoulderSooner]

How did nothing change? Unless they were being intentionally vague with the costs of each element in the September meeting, and 80% of the total cost, while correct, is broken out amongst multiple items?

it was allays presented as 80% private dollars of the total development ..

80% of the plan's $1 billion cost will be covered through private funds

i am suprised that the city only has to pay 60% or the arena costs .. i thought it would be more ..

[Pete]

Note that the university investment will at least be partly (and perhaps mostly) in the form of land contribution.

[chssooner]

i mean i think they purposefully left it vague before... i think they are going to hit the 80% of the total overall development being university and private, but the arena is a big sunk cost that they won't be able to recoop the private investment on as quickly, so they are offing that more to the city.... so i wouldn't say bait and switch, but a purposeful misdirection to try and make it sound good to the citizens

Ironically, if 40% private was being thrown around for the new OKC arena, this board wouldn’t have anything to complain about.

[onthestrip]

i mean i think they purposefully left it vague before... i think they are going to hit the 80% of the total overall development being university and private, but the arena is a big sunk cost that they won't be able to recoop the private investment on as quickly, so they are offing that more to the city.... so i wouldn't say bait and switch, but a purposeful misdirection to try and make it sound good to the citizens

You are right. They added in a bunch of private ancillary development to make the non public cost percentages look better, even though there are no specifics, no timetables and no guarantees of the surrounding developments.

[Jeremy Martin]

So I guess that no one is surprised that once again what was promised at UNP is not what is actually going to happen?
Why do I feel like we've seen this movie before.....?

[jedicurt]

So I guess that no one is surprised that once again what was promised at UNP is not what is actually going to happen?
Why do I feel like we've seen this movie before.....?

but what was promised is what is happening... they just tried to word it in a way that made people think they were only talking about the arena, when they clearly the whole time have been saying the entire development.

[Jersey Boss]

You are right. They added in a bunch of private ancillary development to make the non public cost percentages look better, even though there are no specifics, no timetables and no guarantees of the surrounding developments.

This is exactly the point OU professor DR. Cynthia Rogers made when it was announced in Sept
Read this fact based and the evidence on why this is a bad deal for Norman.
Remember all the promises made to get UNP that never materialized, such as the lifestyle center.

https://www.normantranscript.com/opi...b819eab87.html

[Jersey Boss]

but what was promised is what is happening... they just tried to word it in a way that made people think they were only talking about the arena, when they clearly the whole time have been saying the entire development.

Where is the lifestyle center the OU Foundation promised for UNP years ago?⁸

[Jeremy Martin]

Smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors. Can we trust those involved if they feel the need to try to deceive the public in the initial proposal announcement?
I'll leave this here and will withhold my skepticism going forward and hope that I'm wrong a few years from now.

[mugofbeer]

Ironically, if 40% private was being thrown around for the new OKC arena, this board wouldn’t have anything to complain about.

Oh, they'd find something.......

[Plutonic Panda]

it was allays presented as 80% private dollars of the total development ..

i am suprised that the city only has to pay 60% or the arena costs .. i thought it would be more ..

That still sucks we’ll have the seat count if true like really

[BoulderSooner]

Smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors. Can we trust those involved if they feel the need to try to deceive the public in the initial proposal announcement?
I'll leave this here and will withhold my skepticism going forward and hope that I'm wrong a few years from now.

there were no smoke and mirrors ..

if someone didn't understand that this was the proposed deal they have a reding comprehension problem or where/are being intentionally uninformed

[BoulderSooner]

So I guess that no one is surprised that once again what was promised at UNP is not what is actually going to happen?
Why do I feel like we've seen this movie before.....?

this was what was announced and promised ..

if you don't understand that that is a you problem