New Downtown Arena

[Urbanized]

The “large investment in the site plan” won’t happen until a site is officially selected, and there’s a lot to be done before getting to that point. Are there logical sites, even expected ones? 100%. But trust Mayor Holt when he tells you a site has not been firmly selected. There is a process that the City must adhere to, legally and budgetarily

[aDark]

I wouldn’t give a home builder $500k before seeing a plan. Jerry Jones stated he started planning Jerry World in the 1990s. To think these guys don’t have exactly what they want to build is very naive. I’m sure they have it down to the exact square footage and how they will monetize every inch. It might turn out slightly different but they already have a good idea of what they want.

I think the crux of what you’re trying to convey is they don’t trust the public enough for the designs to not sway some to a “no”. In my opinion that’s a mistake.

I would still vote “yes”, but it feels like a forced compliance vote versus an excited decision.

The mayor has very clearly said that design images won't be created until it is funded. It quite literally can't be. Can you imagine the loss of trust if the City surreptitiously and illegally spent tax payer funds for a design company to give us images of a possible stadium build? THAT would be something to give the naysayers solid ground to stand on.

Both of the examples you give involve private parties. Not relevant here.

[Pete]

The mayor has very clearly said that design images won't be created until it is funded. It quite literally can't be. Can you imagine the loss of trust if the City surreptitiously and illegally spent tax payer funds for a design company to give us images of a possible stadium build? THAT would be something to give the naysayers solid ground to stand on.

Both of the examples you give involve private parties. Not relevant here.

The City routinely provides at least conceptual renderings for other public vote projects, such as virtually everything for the MAPS programs (multi-purpose stadium, State Fair Coliseum, animal shelter, etc.).

In fact, this arena project has already received $70 million in MAPS4 funding.

[SouthOKC]

The mayor has very clearly said that design images won't be created until it is funded. It quite literally can't be. Can you imagine the loss of trust if the City surreptitiously and illegally spent tax payer funds for a design company to give us images of a possible stadium build? THAT would be something to give the naysayers solid ground to stand on.

Both of the examples you give involve private parties. Not relevant here.

The arena is getting built because a private party told us they would move their business if we don’t build it. I’m not saying the city has any renderings but the Thunder does.

Also, they kicked in $50M as a private party. A private party is completely involved all the way up to paying for it.

[CaptDave]

As for the location......what about the Producers Co-op site? The ground contamination that has been documented there and the cost for clean-up likely prevents any reasonable chance for residential development there. I know there is (was?) supposedly a plan to build a MLS level soccer stadium in that area if Energy FC returns to play. Why not make that entire area OKC's pro sports district? The remediation may even cost less since there may not be any need to replace the contaminated soil if the arena is designed in such a way the bowl ends up extending below grade.

Then OKC ends up with three large superblocks downtown for redevelopment that would (ok, could) add incredible density to downtown. I wonder which one would end up being the most expensive real estate in the state......

Admittedly I don't have any experience designing anything like this so there are probably considerations I haven't thought of. But I don't think it hurts to ask "why not?" (Yukong could probably enlighten me though.)

[Urbanized]

The City routinely provides at least conceptual renderings for other public vote projects, such as virtually everything for the MAPS programs (multi-purpose stadium, State Fair Coliseum, animal shelter, etc.).

In fact, this arena project has already received $70 million in MAPS4 funding.

That $70 million is contingent upon the vote passing, and I'm not even 100% sure whether that is from existing MAPS4 funds that have already been collected. Are you?

And like I said above, I would expect an artist's conceptual (that ultimately bears little similarity to the finished product) to be included in election marketing materials, which is all that has EVER been the case for similar votes to fund capital projects in OKC. Last but not least, as I pointed out, the public isn't yet being asked to vote on this. That's three months away. First it has to receive Council approval to place it on the ballot. People are seriously putting the cart before the horse in this thread.

[Urbanized]

Folks, this is a public building. It will be paid for (largely) with public money. The way the City does business is restricted by ordinance and City charter. The architect will be selected via public process. They cannot be hired until AFTER the vote is approved. If the Thunder or the Chamber or anyone else separately hires someone to create an artist's rendering for marketing purposes, that's all fine and good, but it almost certainly would not be done by the firm selected to design the building, so what good is it, really? 100% chance that it would bear little resemblance to the finished product. The site has not been decided, so how can renderings properly show the relationship to the skyline? Answer: they can't.

[Pete]

That $70 million is contingent upon the vote passing, and I'm not even 100% sure whether that is from existing MAPS4 funds that have already been collected. Are you?

I am sure that $1.1 million of that $70 million budget has already been obligated (which means bills have been incurred) and $838,000 of that has been spent on the Master Plan, per MAPS 4 reports.

They clearly are not waiting to spend from this allocation until after the public vote.

[Urbanized]

$838K spent on master plan of what? Paycom improvements that were shelved in favor of reallocation to the proposed new arena?

[Pete]

$838K spent on master plan of what? Paycom improvements that were shelved in favor of reallocation to the proposed new arena?

There are 5 line items in the MAPS 4 Downtown Arena budget:

Phases I&II: for Paycom Arena, such as the new scoreboard and seating
Master Plan: for the new arena
Phases III & IV: also for the new arena

[SouthOKC]

My guess is the Thunder have submitted/discussed sites they would accept. I doubt it’s the city reviewing the options to speculatively build a new $1B+ arena.

I feel like I am fully aware it’s publicly funding and there is a “process”. However, everyone is aware the Thunder don’t stay if it’s not what they’re expecting.

[Pete]

They have to go through the charade of a public process due to the City's regulations.

But of course they know where they want the new arena to go and it's long since been decided, just like the budget was long decided before it was ever made public.

[Urbanized]

My guess is the Thunder have submitted/discussed sites they would accept. I doubt it’s the city reviewing the options to speculatively build a new $1B+ arena.

I feel like I am fully aware it’s publicly funding and there is a “process”. However, everyone is aware the Thunder don’t stay if it’s not what they’re expecting.

No question...both the Thunder and the City have surely discussed the potential sites that each would accept. And clearly site selection conversation will be driven by what properties the City already owns, because I don't believe the proposed budget includes costs for site acquisition. That narrows things down very quickly. That said, land swaps and other elements could still potentially come into play. Due diligence will require quite a bit of study, and studies cost money.

[Pete]

No question...both the Thunder and the City have surely discussed the potential sites that each would accept. And clearly site selection conversation will be driven by what properties the City already owns, because I don't believe the budget includes cost for site acquisition. That narrows things down very quickly. That said, land swaps and other elements could still potentially come into play. Due diligence will require quite a bit of study, and studies cost money.

Do you know anything specific to lead you to believe that the arena will be anywhere other than the Cox site?


Because I've been hearing from multiple sources for over a year that it will be there.

[Pete]

$838K spent on master plan of what? Paycom improvements that were shelved in favor of reallocation to the proposed new arena?

To be fair, I can't confirm that $838K was spent on the new arena. At least some and maybe all had to do with Phases I & II.


Regardless, this shouldn't affect the City's ability to include conceptual plans before the December vote. They do have Populous under contract.

[SouthOKC]

No question...both the Thunder and the City have surely discussed the potential sites that each would accept. And clearly site selection conversation will be driven by what properties the City already owns, because I don't believe the proposed budget includes costs for site acquisition. That narrows things down very quickly. That said, land swaps and other elements could still potentially come into play. Due diligence will require quite a bit of study, and studies cost money.

I’m not sure the city has any say in the site location. The entire project is based on the Thunder needing to hit a revenue target. The city can suggest all the sites it wants, but if the Thunder don’t feel it’s viable then there is no arena project. The ownership is made up of guys that currently run or have been associated with Fortune 500 companies and they forecast revenues several years in advance.

If the Thunder need to generate more revenue from a more exclusive stream, like an arena and that’s how we get a $1B facility and investment into a key core area of downtown. I am all for it.

In my opinion releasing any sort of rendering only allows people to form an opinion. You can’t have an opinion on something “doesn’t exist”. Which makes it feel like the businessmen believe they know better than the public on how to get an extremely delicate process through and built. I believe the ownership want the Thunder here and want to enhance their legacies along with that of OKC. That’s why they went through the purchase and process to bring the team here.

I just think it’s a mistake to not let the public get behind you’re concepts that already exist.

[Pete]

On Tuesday, City Council will consider a measure to enter into a Letter of Intent with the Thunder for a long-term lease. Very few details other than a 25-year lease term and a minimum budget of $900 million (below, the City estimates a minimum of $976 in sales tax, plus the $70 million from MAPS 4 and $50 million from the owners -- that's actually a minimum of $1.1 billion and probably does not include the value of the land). There is this bit that is important since based on MAPS history I estimated sales tax collection could be considerably more than $976 million:

Any surplus revenues ultimately collected from the temporary
sales tax that come in above project costs and any related financing costs will be utilized
either to complete the New Arena and/or placed in a capital improvement fund for
future capital maintenance of and improvements to the New Arena.

On Wednesday, there will be a special meeting of City Council to consider putting the 1% sales tax up for public vote:

Public hearing regarding Ordinance No. 27,420 relating to taxation; amending the Oklahoma City
sales tax code, codified as Article II of Chapter 52 of the Oklahoma City Municipal Code, 2020;
enacting Section 52-23.8 of said Article II of Chapter 52, which levies an excise tax of one percent
(1%) on the gross proceeds or gross receipts derived from all sales taxable under the sales tax laws
of the State of Oklahoma; specifying that the excise tax levied by said Section 52-23.8 may be
expended only for the limited purpose of funding all expenses related in any manner to
constructing, establishing, providing, or maintaining an arena facility to be owned by the City;
defining the term “City;” defining the term “expenses;” providing non-exclusive examples of such
expenses, to include payment of financing costs for obligations related to the stated limited purpose
that are issued by a public trust having the City as its beneficiary; creating the Arena Facility Sales
Tax Fund; providing that the excise tax levied by said Section 52-23.8 begins at the same time the
excise tax levied by City Ordinance No. 26,255 ends; providing that, once effective, the tax levied
by this section lasts for a limited term of 72 months, and then such tax ends; and providing further
that, as required by Section 2705 of Title 68 of the Oklahoma Statutes, the excise tax levied by
Section 1 of this Ordinance will become effective only if it is approved by a majority vote of the
qualified, registered voters of The City of Oklahoma City voting on such question at a special
election called for that purpose by the City Council of the City.

Background:
Oklahoma City opened new publicly-owned arenas to improve and maintain the city’s quality of
life in 1937, 1972 and 2002. The most recent arena helped the city to secure major league
professional sports for the first time. Beginning with the 2008-2009 NBA season, the Oklahoma
City Thunder of the National Basketball Association has called Oklahoma City home, due to a use
license agreement signed by both parties in 2008. In 2023, the initial term of the 2008 use license
agreement expired. The Thunder exercised an option to extend the agreement for three years. Over
the past 14 months, Oklahoma City and Thunder leadership have been engaged in discussions
concerning the concepts that would allow for the Thunder and the City to agree to a new long-term
use license agreement. Earlier this month, representatives of the parties preliminarily agreed to a
letter of intent that establishes mutual agreement for a new use license agreement that will keep
the Thunder in Oklahoma City beyond 2050. A new state-of-the-art arena is required to receive
this long-term commitment from the Thunder.

Ordinance No. 27,420, as presented today, proposes to levy a temporary special sales tax of one
percent (1%) for the special purpose of funding all expenses related in any manner to constructing,
establishing, providing, or maintaining an arena facility to be owned by the City.
The special sales tax to be levied by this Ordinance No. 27,420, following approval by the voters
on December 12, 2023, will begin at the same time the excise tax levied by City Ordinance No.
26,255 ends. (Ordinance No. 26,255 is the 1% sales tax currently funding the ongoing MAPS 4
Program. Ordinance No. 26,255 one-percent sales tax ends at 12:00 a.m. on April 1, 2028.) Once
effective, the tax levied by this Ordinance No. 27,420 will last for a limited term of 72 months and
then such tax will end.

It is anticipated that the temporary sales tax levied by Ordinance No. 27,420 will generate
approximately $976M during its 72-month term. The revenues will be deposited in a special sales
tax fund called the Arena Sales Tax Fund. The proceeds in this Fund can be expended only for
the purpose of funding all expenses related in any manner to constructing, establishing,
providing, or maintaining an arena facility to be owned by the City. The term “expenses” is
defined in Subsection 52-23.8(d) of Ordinance No. 27,420.

[BoulderSooner]

I’m not sure the city has any say in the site location. The entire project is based on the Thunder needing to hit a revenue target. The city can suggest all the sites it wants, but if the Thunder don’t feel it’s viable then there is no arena project. The ownership is made up of guys that currently run or have been associated with Fortune 500 companies and they forecast revenues several years in advance.

If the Thunder need to generate more revenue from a more exclusive stream, like an arena and that’s how we get a $1B facility and investment into a key core area of downtown. I am all for it.

In my opinion releasing any sort of rendering only allows people to form an opinion. You can’t have an opinion on something “doesn’t exist”. Which makes it feel like the businessmen believe they know better than the public on how to get an extremely delicate process through and built. I believe the ownership want the Thunder here and want to enhance their legacies along with that of OKC. That’s why they went through the purchase and process to bring the team here.

I just think it’s a mistake to not let the public get behind you’re concepts that already exist.

the city 100% has a say in site location ....

[SouthOKC]

the city 100% has a say in site location ....

It’s my opinion that the city input only goes to the extent the Thunder will allow it. Then it’s up to a vote of the people. We need them far more than they need us in this situation and everyone knows it.

[Pete]

There is also this item on the agenda for Tuesday's Council meeting:

Resolution declaring the intent to require the selected operator(s) of the new arena, proposed to be funded by City Ordinance No. 27,420, agree to utilize a workforce intermediary program to focus recruitment and training for new arena jobs in certain areas and peoples of the city; and further directing the City Manager to negotiate the payment of regionally competitive wages commensurate with those paid by The City of Oklahoma City and its Trusts; and further directing the creation of a working group to study and deliver findings and potential recommendations regarding the use of a labor peace agreement in the operations of the new arena; provided, that these directives to the City Manager are subject to a favorable vote by city voters on the 1% sales tax for the new arena proposed by Ordinance No. 27,420.
Councilmember Cooper

[April in the Plaza]

the city 100% has a say in site location ....

Exactly. You can’t ask someone to commit $1B in capital + land value and then, in the same breath, tell them they have no say in the location.

[warreng88]

On Tuesday, City Council will consider a measure to enter into a Letter of Intent with the Thunder for a long-term lease. Very few details other than a 25-year lease term and a minimum budget of $900 million (below, the City estimates a minimum of $976 in sales tax, plus the $70 million from MAPS 4 and $30 from the owners -- that's actually a minimum of $1.08 billion and probably does not include the value of the land). There is this bit that is important since based on MAPS history I estimated sales tax collection could be considerably more than $976 million:




On Wednesday, there will be a special meeting of City Council to consider putting the 1% sales tax up for public vote:

I thought it was $50. Was this a typo?

[Pete]

I thought it was $50. Was this a typo?

Yes, thanks, I corrected my post.

[chssooner]

The owners have no doubt been approached by potential buyers from other cities, or else this wouldn't be a thing in 2023 (more likely would be in 2027 or so). But they know they have the city by the short and curlys, so here we are. If you think they won't sell by the end of December, then you are selling the owners short.

I'm not saying they will, but they could the day after a no vote if they wanted (and they would have buyers aplenty).

[warreng88]

Yes, thanks, I corrected my post.

Yep, just making sure it didn't go down, again...