New Downtown Arena

[Urbanized]

One thing that is not being discussed in this thread is that the aggressive timeline being proposed will require debt. MAPS 4 collections will continue until 2028, and the City and the team's ownership are striving to have the Thunder inside the building by the 2029-2030 season. Anyone who knows how money works knows that one years worth of taxes will not cover a billion dollar...err...$900 million (minimum) building. There is a cost for using other people's money; and when you are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars in project costs you are talking about...a lot of interest.

There has also been a page turned recently in MAPS (and though this is not MAPS it's certainly MAPS-like or MAPS-adjacent). MAPS 4 projects all came with long term maintenance costs planned for. Failure to do this during the original MAPS projects has caused the City a lot of hassle within recent years while trying to scrounge up maintenance costs for aging projects. Not certain yet exactly how this is being dealt with in the case of this new arena, but I assume that the City desired for it to be a part of the planning and program, as they now do on all of these types of capital projects.

It will be interesting to see more detail on issues like these when this is presented to Council, but additional, even unanticipated tax receipts are a very good thing. There in fact was some money left over in previous MAPS funds, and I know that in multiple cases these funds saved the day when defensibly MAPS-related needs presented themselves years after the fact. Such funds can also be used to re-add items that were value engineered (cut to save money) during projects. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a surplus in this case, in my opinion. Would MUCH prefer there be one, in fact.

[Urbanized]

The 'temporary' 1-cent sales tax started in 1993 and this latest extension will take it through 2034.

it ended at some point correct?

Yeah, I think so... Very briefly.

It ended for 18 months between MAPS for Kids (tax ended June 30, 2008) and MAPS3 (tax began in 2010).

[jn1780]

50 million probably covers the cost of the interior painting which would be Thunder themed I'm sure.

[chssooner]

The 'temporary' 1-cent sales tax started in 1993 and this latest extension will take it through 2034.

Ah, ok. I wasn't sure.

I think this should be a permanent thing. Just remove the temporary phrasing.

[Pete]

50 million probably covers the cost of the interior painting which would be Thunder themed I'm sure.

We still don't know tons of details such as if there will be other commercial development on the site and who is doing it.

Also don't know the least terms, parking arrangement (about 1,000 spaces below ground now) and a ton of other things.

[jn1780]

We still don't know tons of details such as if there will be other commercial development on the site and who is doing it.

Also don't know the least terms, parking arrangement (about 1,000 spaces below ground now) and a ton of other things.

Well, I was trying to think of something physical that 50 million would cover. I know the Thunder management are not dumb. They know giving something gives them a seat at the table in the decision making process.

[Urbanized]

We still don't know tons of details such as if there will be other commercial development on the site and who is doing it.

Also don't know the least terms, parking arrangement (about 1,000 spaces below ground now) and a ton of other things.

On which site? The site hasn't been announced or officially identified in any way other than "downtown."

[Pete]

On which site? The site hasn't been announced or officially identified in any way other than "downtown."

Oh, please.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^
Alrighty then

[Pete]

^^^^^
Alrighty then

I should say I don't have any inside information and you are correct a site has not been announced.

[PhiAlpha]

50 million probably covers the cost of the interior painting which would be Thunder themed I'm sure.

Just keeping my fingers crossed that we finally tweak the theme lol

[boilerup35]

It'll be interesting to see who gets the naming rights money for the new stadium. If the Thunder receive it then the $50m contribution will be crumbs instead of peanuts

[Richard at Remax]

The easy solution is to set a budget and collect sales tax to meet that budget, then either end the collection or put the surplus into the general fund for a million other needs.

I know this won't happen but I believe the way we budget for these projects with the extra penny sales tax is disingenuous. I also don't like the "We won't raise taxes" line; or calling the increase temporary. Both are very misleading. How is something now projected to continue through at least 35 years 'temporary'? And how can you in the same sentence call it an 'extra penny sales tax' then claim taxes aren't being raised?

It's the OKC way.

It's no different than bond packages for schools and such. If someone came out and said, "if this doesn't pass, your property taxes will go down" you might have some tighter margins.

[brunnesa]

I think the Thunder ownership group should pay for the new arena if they want a better one. The taxpayers have already paid for the Paycom Center and it is very nice. If they threaten to leave, then I say don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

[PoliSciGuy]

Holy cow, barely 5% put up by the billionaire owners? That would easily put us in the bottom rung of teams in terms of taxpayer money to owner money for stadiums in the NBA. Socialize the costs, privatize the profits.

[chssooner]

I think the Thunder ownership group should pay for the new arena if they want a better one. The taxpayers have already paid for the Paycom Center and it is very nice. If they threaten to leave, then I say don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

No, it's not nice. Visit basically any other NBA arena, and you will realize the Paycom is very outdated and just overall mediocre at best. You want OKC's message to the world to be "mediocre at best"?

[Richard at Remax]

Probably hard to guess, but how many times over do you think the paycom has paid for itself in its lifetime? At least 4x?

[AnguisHerba]

I think the Thunder ownership group should pay for the new arena if they want a better one. The taxpayers have already paid for the Paycom Center and it is very nice. If they threaten to leave, then I say don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

Paycom is very nice, no doubt. It's just not "top 25 NBA markets" nice, and it's not going to be "top 5 cities without an NBA team in 2026" nice, either. That's the argument. The powers that be just figure economic development will be worse if the Thunder leave.

You can compare to other cities, other publicly financed arenas, other economic impact studies in other markets...at the end of the day, the folks with money believe the money into OKC will flow less freely without an NBA team.

If you agree and you think it matters for our local economy and your family's future in OKC, then you vote yes. If you disagree, vote no. That's all this really comes down to.

[scottk]

Ah, ok. I wasn't sure.

I think this should be a permanent thing. Just remove the temporary phrasing.

I agree that MAPS is probably here to stay for the long term, however, by making it "temporary" each time, allows us to see and vote as we see fit for the projects and provide some sense of input. Right now it's hard to imagine a MAPS proposal getting voted down given the track record, but from my perspective we have some control over it as OKC citizens.

[April in the Plaza]

Do we know who negotiated this deal on behalf of The City?

[brunnesa]

Paycom is very nice, no doubt. It's just not "top 25 NBA markets" nice, and it's not going to be "top 5 cities without an NBA team in 2026" nice, either. That's the argument. The powers that be just figure economic development will be worse if the Thunder leave.

You can compare to other cities, other publicly financed arenas, other economic impact studies in other markets...at the end of the day, the folks with money believe the money into OKC will flow less freely without an NBA team.

If you agree and you think it matters for our local economy and your family's future in OKC, then you vote yes. If you disagree, vote no. That's all this really comes down to.

I will be voting NO for sure. The owners are very rich and they don’t need to burden anyone else with something that is ultimately going to make them richer.

[BoulderSooner]

I will be voting NO for sure. The owners are very rich and they don’t need to burden anyone else with something that is ultimately going to make them richer.

so you want business owners to build a building that the city will own use and benifit from??

[BoulderSooner]

Anyone who knows how money works knows that one years worth of taxes will not cover a billion dollar...err...$900 million (minimum) building. There is a cost for using other people's money; and when you are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars in project costs you are talking about...a lot of interest.

50 mil seems to cover quite a bit of interest??

[boilerup35]

50 mil seems to cover quite a bit of interest??

Maybe a year on $900 million in debt

[BoulderSooner]

Maybe a year on $900 million in debt

it won't need to cover much as the tax money will start rolling in