University Town Center

[PhiAlpha]

I would agree with you if OU were the SOLE tenant, but it's a multipurpose arena that should serve as the 2ndary venue in the OKC metro area for events where Paycom and the new OKC Arena are too large/expensive or just booked. Having 12K for concerts and major events is a sweet spot that OKC metro doesn't currently have. ...

Anyway, they're going to build what (and where) they want so my opinion is just that.

Let’s not kid ourselves. It’s a multi-purpose arena being built primarily with OU Basketball in mind. Also 8,000 seats for basketball is less than it would seat for concerts (depending on the stage set up). Any concerts for 12k people would just go to Paycom or the state of the art new arena we’re about to build, just as they go to BOK in Tulsa. I don’t think the city is missing out on concerts because of the lack of a 12k seat venue.

[scottk]

Absolutely no reason for an area with OU basketball as the primary tenant to have more than 10k seats. 8k is fine. Build a smaller arena and fill it up consistently and you instantly improve the game environment.

Yup. Just look north to Stillwater. After the initial "boom" in the early 2000's of the Sutton era when demand was high for 13,000 seats, I imagine there are OSU fans who wish now that Gallahger-Iba Arena was in the 8000 seat range. The original 6300 seats were a much easier venue to pack and created a unique environment during basketball season.

[Pete]

^

It's the trend in college sports in general. Most games are televised, tickets are increasingly expensive, everyone now has great home theater systems...

You have to give the fans a reason to go and even then the crowds are likely to be smaller than back before all the things I mentioned above. I'm sure creating more than a parking lot around a 70s-era disco arena is a big part of trying to lure more fans. There are very good reasons that almost all the arenas and stadiums built around the same time are long gone or at least modified beyond recognition.

[PhiAlpha]

^

It's the trend in college sports in general. Most games are televised, tickets are increasingly expensive, everyone now has great home theater systems...

You have to give the fans a reason to go and even then the crowds are likely to be smaller than back before all the things I mentioned above. I'm sure creating more than a parking lot around a 70s-era disco arena is a big part of trying to lure more fans. There are very good reasons that almost all the arenas and stadiums built around the same time are long gone or at least modified beyond recognition.

It become especially true for college basketball which has many more home games at much less convenient times than football and has been made less competitive (or at least less interesting) by the one and done rule. Probably the main reason I changed my mind about this proposal was the ease of access and entertainment component. Anything that makes it easier to get fans AND students to the game and hang out there is a win.

[BoulderSooner]

I have been told that the 8k seats of this plan vs the 10k of the old plan (which i think is about the correct number) is largely driven by cost ..

[Pete]

It become especially true for college basketball which has many more home games at much less convenient times than football and has been made less competitive (or at least less interesting) by the one and done rule. Probably the main reason I changed my mind about this proposal was the ease of access and entertainment component. Anything that makes it easier to get fans AND students to the game and hang out there is a win.

The Thunder being right up I-35 has to hurt as well and they are only going to get better and will soon have a new $1B arena.

[PhiAlpha]

The Thunder being right up I-35 has to hurt as well and they are only going to get better and will soon have a new $1B arena.

Yeah I'm not sure how much of it is a trend across the board but in our market, the NBA has definitely hurt college BB attendance for OU and OSU.

[FighttheGoodFight]

Yeah I'm not sure how much of it is a trend across the board but in our market, the NBA has definitely hurt college BB attendance for OU and OSU.

Nothing against college bball but I can't stand really watching it when the NBA is a better product all around.

[bombermwc]

Yeah I'm not sure how much of it is a trend across the board but in our market, the NBA has definitely hurt college BB attendance for OU and OSU.

To be fair, OU hasn't been as successful (and frankly, either has OSU). Both schools are fair-weather fans for BBall. Baseball too.

If OU started making the big dance and consistently made it past the first round or two, i think you'd be seeing a much more full house. When they've been struggling for such a long stretch to just stay relevant, it's hard to put butts in the seats.


I'll extend that to the Thunder too. The PC has not been full for quite some time while we've been on our down-turn.

[SEMIweather]

To be fair, OU hasn't been as successful (and frankly, either has OSU). Both schools are fair-weather fans for BBall. Baseball too.

If OU started making the big dance and consistently made it past the first round or two, i think you'd be seeing a much more full house. When they've been struggling for such a long stretch to just stay relevant, it's hard to put butts in the seats.

I'll extend that to the Thunder too. The PC has not been full for quite some time while we've been on our down-turn.

Correct. For the 2015-16 season, OU had a full house at the LNC for just about every conference game. In the seven seasons since then, the team has a cumulative record of 118-104 overall, 50-75 in conference play. Just a punishing stretch of mediocrity, and that's the main reason why the LNC has not been drawing consistent crowds, and I can tell you right now that a new arena will have the same issue beyond the first two seasons or so. OU would have had issues filling an 8,000 seat arena for the majority of last season's home games.

[Jersey Boss]

Two points. First one being is writing off the RTA being walking distance to an arena.
Second is if 20% of the 8k seats are going to luxury suites that is <7k for the general pop.

[BoulderSooner]

Correct. For the 2015-16 season, OU had a full house at the LNC for just about every conference game. In the seven seasons since then, the team has a cumulative record of 118-104 overall, 50-75 in conference play. Just a punishing stretch of mediocrity, and that's the main reason why the LNC has not been drawing consistent crowds, and I can tell you right now that a new arena will have the same issue beyond the first two seasons or so. OU would have had issues filling an 8,000 seat arena for the majority of last season's home games.

ISU 11251 tickets sold 10116 scanned
KSU 11113 tickets sold 8361 scanned
WVU 11933 tickets sold 10346 scanned
Tech 10682 tickets sold 8217 scanned
TCU 7455 tickets sold 6344 scanned
texas 11547 tickets sold 10014 scanned
KU 12247 tickets sold 11707 scanned (for whatever reason this is the final game this season OU reported both number tickets sold and people showing up )
osu 11470 tickets sold
baylor 11563 tickets sold

the WVU, KU, texas, and baylor games were the only "official" sellouts (capacity was 11,562 in 2015, now it is just under 11K)
either way for sure not a full house every game

[Jersey Boss]

ISU 11251 tickets sold 10116 scanned
KSU 11113 tickets sold 8361 scanned
WVU 11933 tickets sold 10346 scanned
Tech 10682 tickets sold 8217 scanned
TCU 7455 tickets sold 6344 scanned
texas 11547 tickets sold 10014 scanned
KU 12247 tickets sold 11707 scanned (for whatever reason this is the final game this season OU reported both number tickets sold and people showing up )
osu 11470 tickets sold
baylor 11563 tickets sold

the WVU, KU, texas, and baylor games were the only "official" sellouts (capacity was 11,562 in 2015, now it is just under 11K)
either way for sure not a full house every game

Thanks for showing that 8k seats is not adequate. Also for showing that the LNC will draw bigger crowds. Every game but 1 had in excess of 8k scanned.

[BoulderSooner]

Thanks for showing that 8k seats is not adequate. Also for showing that the LNC will draw bigger crowds. Every game but 1 had in excess of 8k scanned.

the 8k size is a pure function of cost ... 10k (which was the old plan was really the needed size ) but i get it .. there are financial realities ..

also that was the crowds 8 years ago

[Jersey Boss]

the 8k size is a pure function of cost ... 10k (which was the old plan was really the needed size ) but i get it .. there are financial realities ..

also that was the crowds 8 years ago

And if the SEC has a min # of tickets held for visitors, this short changes local fans as well. If you can't do it right, don't do it.

[BoulderSooner]

And if the SEC has a min # of tickets held for visitors, this short changes local fans as well. If you can't do it right, don't do it.

for basketball it is like 30 seats .. lol

[Martin]

for basketball it is like 30 seats .. lol

i was curious about the actual number, so i looked it up... it looks like it's 100 total tickets reserved to the visiting team.

2022-23 Commissioner's Regulations - Men's Basketball.pdf (espncdn.com)

From page 31 of the PDF:

Tickets. The visiting team will be allotted 100 complimentary tickets for each Conference game. Each home institution shall provide at least 12 seats to the visiting team directly behind the visiting team’s bench. These must be ticketed seats and will be part of the visiting team’s allotment of 100 complimentary tickets. The location of the “next” 38 complimentary tickets must be within the first 25 rows of the playing floor and as near the visiting team bench as possible. The home team will determine the location of the remaining 50 complimentary tickets. Unless specifically requested by the visiting team, tickets will not be mailed, but will be picked up at the game site by the coach or his representative.

[BoulderSooner]

i was curious about the actual number, so i looked it up... it looks like it's 100 total tickets reserved to the visiting team.

2022-23 Commissioner's Regulations - Men's Basketball.pdf (espncdn.com)

From page 31 of the PDF:

thanks for looking that up ..

[Jersey Boss]

the 8k size is a pure function of cost ... 10k (which was the old plan was really the needed size ) but i get it .. there are financial realities ..

also that was the crowds 8 years ago

And this article that reported that 10k seat arena and garage mentioned only 102 million of public financing. So now it is twice the price for 80% of the seating.
https://arenadigest.com/2018/05/25/o...an-officials/9

[FighttheGoodFight]

Construction costs and interest rates would be the reason for that. 2018 was nice and cheap!

[PhiAlpha]

And this article that reported that 10k seat arena and garage mentioned only 102 million of public financing. So now it is twice the price for 80% of the seating.
https://arenadigest.com/2018/05/25/o...an-officials/9

That sucks but is not all that surprising.

[Jersey Boss]

Construction costs and interest rates would be the reason for that. 2018 was nice and cheap!

Over 100% inflation? Who are you trying to bs?

[Jersey Boss]

Construction costs and interest rates would be the reason for that. 2018 was nice and cheap!

I didn't want to sound harsh in my initial response but it strains believability that costs would go up 100% AND the arena shrinks by 20%. I'd like a lot more details than what has been told so far.

[chssooner]

I didn't want to sound harsh in my initial response but it strains believability that costs would go up 100% AND the arena shrinks by 20%. I'd like a lot more details than what has been told so far.

Arena shrunk likely because they figured they can't sell out 8k, let alone 10k. But 8k is needed for other events.

Could be wrong, though.

Not sure on the costs. Might be a bit more extravagant arena than before. We know nothing at all of the design of either arena.

[mugofbeer]

Renderings! We MUST have renderings!