University Town Center

[chssooner]

This is from Placer, a commercial real estate database.

UNP has more visits than any other shopping center in Central Oklahoma and probably the entire state. And they are now under construction on a big new expansion not to mention this additional $1B in improvements.

Anyone trying to portray this development as losing money or not being able to deliver on expansion is completely delusional.

What is the expansion?

[Colbafone]

Man. I just want to chip in a small thing. I was a student at OU from 06-10. That Target opened in...2007? I think? UTC isn't new anymore, outside of the stretches that are being built further north.

The development is cool and all. But it's been SUPER disappointing compared to what was promised. I can remember all the promises made about UTC and absolutely none of it has come to fruition. I have no proof, but I believe there was supposed to be a true lifestyle center, a big 10k+ amphitheater, like 2000+ hotel rooms, convention center and on and on.

And it's basically just a glorified Ed Noble Parkway.

That's not to say this has been a failure. It clearly hasn't. And adding this whole district and housing would be HUGE. But idk what to tell you if you don't believe UTC hasn't lived up to it's original promise. And please, don't use the pandemic as an excuse on this. That was 2020, and this has been actively open/under construction since the mid 2000's. They've absolutely not met their original expectations though.

[Pete]

What is the expansion?

Work has already started and it will be bigger than the proposed entertainment district surrounding the arena.

[chssooner]

Nice! While I wish this was going to be the luxury lifestyle center it was supposed to be, it looks like it will finally add a true theater to Norman (I assume that is what the entertainment parcel will be). And will be a hit, either way.

[GoGators]

Link?

Go to the first page of the thread and read forward.

[Pete]

Nice! While I wish this was going to be the luxury lifestyle center it was supposed to be, it looks like it will finally add a true theater to Norman (I assume that is what the entertainment parcel will be). And will be a hit, either way.

A lot changed in retail after the lifestyle center was first proposed. It sucks it's not going to happen but that is not the fault of the developers.

[chssooner]

A lot changed in retail after the lifestyle center was first proposed. It sucks it's not going to happen but that is not the fault of the developers.

Oh, I know. I'm not blaming anyone. The economy tanked in 08, right before it was supposed to be built. No one's fault.

But I'm glad they haven't given up on UNP. And adding 1000s of residents within a few minutes with the $1 billion expansion and development will only help.

[Pete]

BTW, here is a list of restaurants at UTC with many more planned.

This is 28; there is nowhere in the state that comes close to that number and it's going to keep growing dramatically:

Bad Daddy's Burger Bar
CAVA
Cheddar's
Chili's
Chipotle
Chuck E. Cheese
Five Guys
Hideaway
La Madeline
Logan's Roadhouse (believe they recently closed)
McAlister's Deli
Mo' Bettahs
Mod Piza
Nothing Bundt Cakes
Panda Express
Pei Wei
PF Chang's
Qdoba
Red Rock Canyon
Starbuck's
Surf Bar
Swig
The Ranch
Torchy's Tacos
Tropical Cafe
Tucker's
Wing Stop
Zio's

[Pete]

Here is relatively current visitor data for the biggest commercial developments in Central Oklahoma.

UTC is #1 by a wide margin. Imagine when the expansion is complete and they add another $1B investment on top of that:

[warreng88]

Here is relatively current visitor data for the biggest commercial developments in Central Oklahoma.

UTC is #1 by a wide margin. Imagine when the expansion is complete and they add another $1B investment on top of that:

I am curious why #3 and #6 were separated. 1901 NW Expressway (#6) is the address for Penn Square Mall and then #3 is Penn Square Mall / NW Expressway. I was thinking it was the difference between PSM and Belle Isle station, but that is separate as well. I don't think Cheesecake Factory, Whiskey Cake and Container Store bring in that many visitors...

[Pete]

I am curious why #3 and #6 were separated. 1901 NW Expressway (#6) is the address for Penn Square Mall and then #3 is Penn Square Mall / NW Expressway. I was thinking it was the difference between PSM and Belle Isle station, but that is separate as well. I don't think Cheesecake Factory, Whiskey Cake and Container Store bring in that many visitors...

My guess is the larger number includes the outlying parcels and the smaller one is for the mall only.

[warreng88]

My guess is the larger number includes the outlying parcels and the smaller one is for the mall only.

That would make sense. It was just weird how it was presented.

[Jeremy Martin]

When this was proposed years ago with the tax payers funding a significant portion I was 100% opposed. Now that the overwhelming majority of the money is coming from private entities I'm all in. I still feel that the University's basketball facility needs to be on campus but I can definitely see the draw to moving it to UNP. Like some I am very skeptical of the scale of the entire project. UNP while successful is not what we were told it was going to be when it was first proposed. I suspect that when this project is all said and done it will not look like what is has been proposed this last week.

[Pete]

It's strange to me that people are saying 'we didn't get what was advertised' and now that they are proposing to add some new, cool, unique aspect, that same opinion is being used as an argument against going forward.

This development is still less than halfway built-out and is already the biggest draw in the state. Let's do this next phase and then things will be closer to a fully-rounded mixed-use project.

[Jeremy Martin]

It's strange to me that people are saying 'we didn't get what was advertised' and now that they are proposing to add some new, cool, unique aspect, that same opinion is being used as an argument against going forward.

This development is still less than halfway built-out and is already the biggest draw in the state. Let's do this next phase and then things will be closer to a fully-rounded mixed-use project.

The issue for me is that when Norman was sold on the original TIF for UNP we were told that this would be an area of shops and facilities unlike any other in the state. UNP is not that. I'm not saying that it isn't successful, but it's not what we were sold.
I hope this project happens and I hope it blows my expectations out of the water. This could be great for everyone involved and be Norman's version of Bricktown, only cleaner. We have been made promises about UNP before that were not lived up to so I remain cautiously optimistic about a project this large.

[Rover]

The issue for me is that when Norman was sold on the original TIF for UNP we were told that this would be an area of shops and facilities unlike any other in the state. UNP is not that. I'm not saying that it isn't successful, but it's not what we were sold.
I hope this project happens and I hope it blows my expectations out of the water. This could be great for everyone involved and be Norman's version of Bricktown, only cleaner. We have been made promises about UNP before that were not lived up to so I remain cautiously optimistic about a project this large.

I am so disappointed... my date was supposed to be with Adriana Lima but Gigi Hadad showed up instead and Adriana will not meet us til later. So, please tell Adriana to just not show up at all.

[Shortsyeararound]

I am so disappointed... my date was supposed to be with Adriana Lima but Gigi Hadad showed up instead and Adriana will not meet us til later. So, please tell Adriana to just not show up at all.

They can both not come and we will stay with (insert who you don't like here) forever. That would be best. Let's not progress forward. Most of the people bitching here don't spend money there anyway.

[Pete]

Businesses and developments make boasts all the time... Anybody who actually thought this development between I-35 and a small airport in a suburb was going to attract a lot of things we can't even get to OKC deserves to be disappointed.

This new idea could actually be really cool and at least provide a small area where you could walk around and choose from a bunch of places, which I happen to really like at Chisholm Creek. And people do nothing but bitch about CC as well but it serves its purpose very well and I end up there regularly.

Just having a place to go before and after a game or event without having to get in your car would be lightyears beyond the sea of asphalt and nothingness at LNC. Something can be a huge improvement without being all things to all people.

[Jeremy Martin]

I am so disappointed... my date was supposed to be with Adriana Lima but Gigi Hadad showed up instead and Adriana will not meet us til later. So, please tell Adriana to just not show up at all.

Imagine the same scenario and Jenna Fisher shows up. Cute, but not hot. She'll do I guess but not as good as promised and that's what we got.
Again, I hope this development turns out to be greater than all expectations. $1B is sooo much money and this will be a positive impact for the city.

[jedicurt]

I mean softball is getting a new stadium, baseball field is going to be redone for the new SEC rules and gymnastics will also use this arena (I'd guess).

gymnastics is getting a whole new training facility, which they desperately need. that is what people don't seem to understand, there is a good 10 years worth of projects already on the books, that are happening, that is why without outside help, OU will not be building an LNC replacement for atleast 15-20 years.

[Rover]

Imagine the same scenario and Jenna Fisher shows up. Cute, but not hot. She'll do I guess but not as good as promised and that's what we got.
Again, I hope this development turns out to be greater than all expectations. $1B is sooo much money and this will be a positive impact for the city.

Some men may actually finds Jenna to be preferable. Maybe she’s actually smarter and a better conversationalist. Just depends on the expectation and personal desire.

[Jeremy Martin]

You're not wrong. Give a listen to 'the office ladies" podcast.

[HOT ROD]

ok, as a casual observer on this topic - I think this is a great development for Norman that will also benefit OU. I as an expat can see it's not OU owned nor developed but private with public (Norman, Cleveland County) contribution. It's like an offer OU can't refuse, since others are doing it.

Now, could it be better if it were closer to/on campus? Yes, but even I can see an arena could not be built unless LNC is razed, and even then it isn't/wont be close to campus. Plenty of programs have arenas off campus, and as has been mentioned - this will be closer to the main base in the OKC metro area. My MBA alma (Seattle University) plays at Climate Pledge arena which is NOT on campus.

My only concern is the seating size, I think 12K is a better target than smaller. It WONT ever compete with Paycom or the new OKC arena, not even the same ballpark. But it will COMPLEMENT the OKC metro area, giving us 3 viable large arenas (if this is built to 12K) and several smaller ones (new Fairgrounds, OCU, and Central Oklahoma). I personally think it's time for Norman to take the leap and become the true 2nd city of the OKC metro. This development will help in that regard, bringing some events non-OU related to the south metro on a regular basis.

[PhiAlpha]

ok, as a casual observer on this topic - I think this is a great development for Norman that will also benefit OU. I as an expat can see it's not OU owned nor developed but private with public (Norman, Cleveland County) contribution. It's like an offer OU can't refuse, since others are doing it.

Now, could it be better if it were closer to/on campus? Yes, but even I can see an arena could not be built unless LNC is razed, and even then it isn't/wont be close to campus. Plenty of programs have arenas off campus, and as has been mentioned - this will be closer to the main base in the OKC metro area. My MBA alma (Seattle University) plays at Climate Pledge arena which is NOT on campus.

My only concern is the seating size, I think 12K is a better target than smaller. It WONT ever compete with Paycom or the new OKC arena, not even the same ballpark. But it will COMPLEMENT the OKC metro area, giving us 3 viable large arenas (if this is built to 12K) and several smaller ones (new Fairgrounds, OCU, and Central Oklahoma). I personally think it's time for Norman to take the leap and become the true 2nd city of the OKC metro. This development will help in that regard, bringing some events non-OU related to the south metro on a regular basis.

Absolutely no reason for an area with OU basketball as the primary tenant to have more than 10k seats. 8k is fine. Build a smaller arena and fill it up consistently and you instantly improve the game environment.

[HOT ROD]

I would agree with you if OU were the SOLE tenant, but it's a multipurpose arena that should serve as the 2ndary venue in the OKC metro area for events where Paycom and the new OKC Arena are too large/expensive or just booked. Having 12K for concerts and major events is a sweet spot that OKC metro doesn't currently have. ...

Anyway, they're going to build what (and where) they want so my opinion is just that.