University Town Center

[chssooner]

Agree. It's not going to rescue the basketball program, instead it's just going to incentivize OU's donor base to remain lazy and football focused. I have been closely following OU basketball for over a decade...the apathy by people who actually have the power to change things is absolutely suffocating the program and this won't fix it, it's just kicking the can down the road for another 20-30 years.

It is the same echo chamber of people saying the same things, but not having a solution. What is your ideal solution to the situation, so we can discuss why OU isn't going with it?

The duck pond? Too small. Same with CC. Hard to build an arena and have parking (plus, students wouldn't go to the games anyway).

Renovating LNC? Would cost about as much, if not more than a new arena, and is just lipstick on a pig.

Next to the stadium? A new football facility is going there, so it can't be there.

Destroying houses near campus using eminent domain? I'm sure that will go over well with the community.

I'm open to other suggestions, though.

[BoulderSooner]

It is the same echo chamber of people saying the same things, but not having a solution. What is your ideal solution to the situation, so we can discuss why OU isn't going with it?

The duck pond? Too small. Same with CC. Hard to build an arena and have parking (plus, students wouldn't go to the games anyway).

Renovating LNC? Would cost about as much, if not more than a new arena, and is just lipstick on a pig.

Next to the stadium? A new football facility is going there, so it can't be there.

Destroying houses near campus using eminent domain? I'm sure that will go over well with the community.

I'm open to other suggestions, though.

and the #1 question for all of these things where is the FUNDING coming from

[jedicurt]

Students don't go to football games, let alone basketball games. Quit making this about students. If students cared, they'd go to LNC. It's a 10 minute drive. .

THIS!!!! lets stop this whole argument about students. they literally don't care. those that do, probably already drive to LNC, and thus would drive here.

[chssooner]

and the #1 question for all of these things where is the FUNDING coming from

Yep. A private developer, working with private funds, approached OU with an idea, and it is more cost efficient for OU to do this than to try to fundraise for the basketball program.

[SEMIweather]

It is the same echo chamber of people saying the same things, but not having a solution. What is your ideal solution to the situation, so we can discuss why OU isn't going with it?

The duck pond? Too small. Same with CC. Hard to build an arena and have parking (plus, students wouldn't go to the games anyway).

Renovating LNC? Would cost about as much, if not more than a new arena, and is just lipstick on a pig.

Next to the stadium? A new football facility is going there, so it can't be there.

Destroying houses near campus using eminent domain? I'm sure that will go over well with the community.

I'm open to other suggestions, though.

Either the NE Corner of Jenkins and Brooks, or build a new arena in any corner of the parking lots surrounding the LNC. I also don't think that renovating the LNC would be a bad option either, look at the before/after of what Michigan did with the Crisler Center back in 2011. In any case, it doesn't matter what I think, because it's been obvious for quite a while that a UNP arena is OU's preferred solution. All I can do is post on OKC Talk about how I think it's a really dumb idea to build a new arena 5 miles NW of campus rather than making any real attempt to build near what's likely going to be a massively renovated Campus Corner, or even just staying on the existing LNC footprint which is becoming a better location year over year as the footprint of OU's campus continues to slowly expand to the south.

It's just a lazy solution. I am not that smart, but it doesn't take a genius to understand that lazy solutions won't do anything to fix the apathy that has enveloped the OU basketball program for as long as I've cared about it.

[BoulderSooner]

Either the NE Corner of Jenkins and Brooks, or build a new arena in any corner of the parking lots surrounding the LNC. I also don't think that renovating the LNC would be a bad option either, look at the before/after of what Michigan did with the Crisler Center back in 2011. In any case, it doesn't matter what I think, because it's been obvious for quite a while that a UNP arena is OU's preferred solution. All I can do is post on OKC Talk about how I think it's a really dumb idea to build a new arena 5 miles NW of campus rather than making any real attempt to build near what's likely going to be a massively renovated Campus Corner, or even just staying on the existing LNC footprint which is becoming a better location year over year as the footprint of OU's campus continues to slowly expand to the south.

It's just a lazy solution. I am not that smart, but it doesn't take a genius to understand that lazy solutions won't do anything to fix the apathy that has enveloped the OU basketball program for as long as I've cared about it.

it is OU's preferred solution because it can actually happen ... and soon ..


there is 0 funding for any of your other ideas ...

and for the record if i had 500 mil to give OU there would be a new arena at the NE corner of Jenkins and Brooks ..

[chssooner]

Either the NE Corner of Jenkins and Brooks, or build a new arena in any corner of the parking lots surrounding the LNC. I also don't think that renovating the LNC would be a bad option either, look at the before/after of what Michigan did with the Crisler Center back in 2011. In any case, it doesn't matter what I think, because it's been obvious for quite a while that a UNP arena is OU's preferred solution. All I can do is post on OKC Talk about how I think it's a really dumb idea to build a new arena 5 miles NW of campus rather than making any real attempt to build near what's likely going to be a massively renovated Campus Corner, or even just staying on the existing LNC footprint which is becoming a better location year over year as the footprint of OU's campus continues to slowly expand to the south.

It's just a lazy solution. I am not that smart, but it doesn't take a genius to understand that lazy solutions won't do anything to fix the apathy that has enveloped the OU basketball program for as long as I've cared about it.

Again, funding. OU is working with private interests who WANT to build a new arena at UNP. OU would never be able to fundraiser the money for a new basketball arena. Donors don't care enough about basketball to fund it. So unless you have a way for OU to afford to build a new arena, this is the best option OU had.

OU just doesn't have the money. They are relying on private money, and latching on. That is what people aren't getting here. If money weren't an option, other locations would be looked at. But this is what a private developer wants, and it is the only way OU will get a new arena for their basketball and gymnastics programs.

Apathy is running rampant among basically all sports programs all across the country. It is easier to watch from home. Even SEC powers are finding this out. Not just OU.

[onthestrip]

I'm amazed that a post about this proposed major development for Norman and the OKC metro took such a turn for the worse simply because the man's screen name includes the word "Poke."

Instead of questioning his numbers and his apparent knowledge of real estate, financing, and public projects, Urbanist was shouted down and dismissed because he's not a Sooner fan. That's sad. He's entitled to his own opinion, so attack him on his numbers or his research into other venues or whatever, not his lack of love for OU.

I think he makes a lot of sense, because this "If you build it, they will come" mentality has been proven wrong more than once, and definitely in Oklahoma. It's not as if this development is being built in a vacuum. OKC is experiencing growth in every quadrant and the barriers to success here are HUGE.

Just my 2 cents. Fire away.

Its very on brand, actually. I like the one non-sequitur post that brought up Saturdays football games of OU and OSU as if that mattered in this debate.

I just think its lazy that OU cant find a way to put it on campus. They seemingly can find all the space and money for a football cafeteria or something but not for an arena for the second most popular and revenue generating sport.

[jedicurt]

Its very on brand, actually. I like the one non-sequitur post that brought up Saturdays football games of OU and OSU as if that mattered in this debate.

I just think its lazy that OU cant find a way to put it on campus. They seemingly can find all the space and money for a football cafeteria or something but not for an arena for the second most popular and revenue generating sport.

because Women's Gymnastics has a higher average attendance recently than basketball.. there is no money for basketball right now from donors.

[Midtowner]

I will never a support an arena that is not on campus and think it’s a huge mistake. Downtown Norman would be a fine alternative but not by I-35. But I’m also not paying for it.

It probably makes a lot more sense to have it by I-35. What % of attendees are students? It's never more than 25% is it? Mostly folks coming from I-35, right?

And maybe with that, Norman/OU could invest in a BRT or trolley system to move students from campus to I-35 in the future to eliminate that issue?

[Rover]

Its very on brand, actually. I like the one non-sequitur post that brought up Saturdays football games of OU and OSU as if that mattered in this debate.

I just think its lazy that OU cant find a way to put it on campus. They seemingly can find all the space and money for a football cafeteria or something but not for an arena for the second most popular and revenue generating sport.

It isn't "lazy". It is smart to make it way more accessable and fun for more in the area to enjoy. This idea that you could build this kind of magnetic entertainment district on campus is just fantasy.

This development makes sense for the city of Norman and for all us fans.

[Pete]

I just think its lazy that OU cant find a way to put it on campus. They seemingly can find all the space and money for a football cafeteria or something but not for an arena for the second most popular and revenue generating sport.

Because every other sport -- including basketball -- loses a lot of money.

Football makes a ton of money and that is only increasing with time, hence the continued investment.


It's not 'lazy' or 'stupid'. Besides BoulderSooner I seriously doubt anyone on this thread has ever had season tickets (I did for years) or even bothers to go to the games (I still see a few every year). I never missed a home game as a student and drove to ever single one of them... I'm not aware of any students who don't drive to the games, so nothing will really change in that regard.

Frankly put, pretty much none of the people commenting here have any idea what they are talking about.

There are very good reasons the university president, board of regents and both OU basketball coaches are strongly in favor of this plan.

[PhiAlpha]

But makes it harder for students to go to games. Sorry this is a stupid decision that OU will regret IF it moves forward. I have my doubts.

How is it any more difficult for students than LNC? Would you rather them do this or play at LNC for the next 20 years? Those are the options.

What percentage of the students live on campus? What percentage of game attendees are students? Compared to LNC… Will this move negatively affect student attendance more than it positively affects alumni/fan attendance.

[warreng88]

It probably makes a lot more sense to have it by I-35. What % of attendees are students? It's never more than 25% is it? Mostly folks coming from I-35, right?

And maybe with that, Norman/OU could invest in a BRT or trolley system to move students from campus to I-35 in the future to eliminate that issue?

To piggyback on that, if RTA becomes a thing, and there is a stop here, it might drive more attendance from OKC metro.

[PhiAlpha]

Its very on brand, actually. I like the one non-sequitur post that brought up Saturdays football games of OU and OSU as if that mattered in this debate.

I just think its lazy that OU cant find a way to put it on campus. They seemingly can find all the space and money for a football cafeteria or something but not for an arena for the second most popular and revenue generating sport.

Yes. I brought up Saturdays football results which were about as relevant to the discussion as UrbanPoke’s arguments and frankly your lazy commentary on it.

[PhiAlpha]

Because every other sport -- including basketball -- loses a lot of money.

Football makes a ton of money and that is only increasing with time, hence the continued investment.


It's not 'lazy' or 'stupid'. Besides BoulderSooner I seriously doubt anyone on this thread has ever had season tickets (I did for years) or even bothers to go to the games (I still see a few every year). I never missed a home game as a student and drove to ever single one of them... I'm not aware of any students who don't drive to the games, so nothing will really change in that regard.

Frankly put, pretty much none of the people commenting here have any idea what they are talking about.

There are very good reasons the university president, board of regents and both OU basketball coaches are strongly in favor of this plan.

I had season tickets in college and went to most of the games when I did (maybe walked from the dorms twice). Of course that was when the Griffins were there. Also went to a few games per year until I moved to Tulsa.

This is the best available plan and is a very good one given the circumstances.

[GoGators]

It isn't "lazy". It is smart to make it way more accessable and fun for more in the area to enjoy. This idea that you could build this kind of magnetic entertainment district on campus is just fantasy.

This development makes sense for the city of Norman and for all us fans.

If that is the argument why not just play the games at Paycom center? Its much more centrally located than UNP. If ease of people coming from other areas is more important than proximity to campus what would be the argument against that? Think how much time would be saved from people coming from Edmond.

UNP was sold as a "magnetic entertainment district" that would attract people from Dallas and Kansas City when it was first proposed 15 years ago. So far It has turned out to be nothing but a generic big box store / fast food corridor on a curvy road. I doubt anyone has has traveled from KCMO and DFW to shop at the UNP Kohls and Target as the developers promised. I would take these new claims of what is going to go around this arena with the same grain of salt.

[BG918]

To piggyback on that, if RTA becomes a thing, and there is a stop here, it might drive more attendance from OKC metro.

The UNP site is over a mile from the rail line. It needs to be right next to a station to be effective. Another reason the Duck Pond has always been the preferred location on-campus

My prediction if this happens: OU will see a temporary boost in attendance because of the new arena. Student attendance will still suffer. In less than a decade OU will realize what a mistake they made and begin planning for an on-campus arena by the Duck Pond (north of the football operations center) and the City of Norman will be stuck with a useless arena. Look at 1st Bank Center in Broomfield, CO for a good case study.

[jedicurt]

If that is the argument why not just play the games at Paycom center? Its much more centrally located than UNP. If ease of people coming from other areas is more important than proximity to campus what would be the argument against that? Think how much time would be saved from people coming from Edmond.

if it was a potential option, i'm sure the University would entertain it. but seeing how the Thunder killed off any chance of hockey by saying they won't share with anyone as a tenant, that also is not a feasible option that is on the table. so, are we back to here or wait 20 years again yet?

[jedicurt]

Student attendance will still suffer.

lol. so it will drop for the current 15-30 students down to zero?

[chssooner]

The UNP site is over a mile from the rail line. It needs to be right next to a station to be effective. Another reason the Duck Pond has always been the preferred location on-campus

My prediction if this happens: OU will see a temporary boost in attendance because of the new arena. Student attendance will still suffer. In less than a decade OU will realize what a mistake they made and begin planning for an on-campus arena by the Duck Pond (north of the football operations center) and the City of Norman will be stuck with a useless arena. Look at 1st Bank Center in Broomfield, CO for a good case study.

So doubling-down on something that is nowhere near being funded. Got it. You seem to think OU can just fart out money for an arena. This is ONLY a thing because someone else is footing $800 million. Not OU. OU doesn't have $200 million for an arena, let alone $800 million. So quit with these choices that require OU to foot the bill. That isn't happening, and is fiscally irresponsible, and shows a lack of resdhing comprehension from the posters who keep repeating the same thing over and over again, thinking with different words, the point will be more clear).

OU IS DOING THIS BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE SAID "TAKE OUR $800 MILLION AND JOIN OUR NEW ARENA AS A MAIN TENANT". NOT BECAUSE OU HAS MONEY FOR A NEW ARENA, AND JUST WANTS TO SCREW OVER STUDENTS BY PUTTING IT AT UNP. BUT SOLELY BECUSE SOMEONE ELSE WANTS TO LINK UP WITH OU FOR AN ARENA DEVELOPMENT. IT IS MONEY OU DOESN'T HAVE TO SPEND, UNLIKE EVERY OTHER OPTION MENTIONED (THINKING OU HAS INFINITE MONEY IS ASININE).

It is in all caps, so hopefully you won't OVERLOOK it.

[onthestrip]

So doubling-down on something that is nowhere near being funded. Got it. You seem to think OU can just fart out money for an arena. This is ONLY a thing because someone else is footing $800 million. Not OU. OU doesn't have $200 million for an arena, let alone $800 million. So quit with these choices that require OU to foot the bill. That isn't happening, and is fiscally irresponsible, and shows a lack of resdhing comprehension from the posters who keep repeating the same thing over and over again, thinking with different words, the point will be more clear).

OU IS DOING THIS BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE SAID "TAKE OUR $800 MILLION AND JOIN OUR NEW ARENA AS A MAIN TENANT". NOT BECAUSE OU HAS MONEY FOR A NEW ARENA, AND JUST WANTS TO SCREW OVER STUDENTS BY PUTTING IT AT UNP. BUT SOLELY BECUSE SOMEONE ELSE WANTS TO LINK UP WITH OU FOR AN ARENA DEVELOPMENT. IT IS MONEY OU DOESN'T HAVE TO SPEND, UNLIKE EVERY OTHER OPTION MENTIONED (THINKING OU HAS INFINITE MONEY IS ASININE).

Im skeptical of this $1 billion number. Seems like a big number to throw out just to make it seem like this is a good idea. $1 billion of investment wont happen here for probably at least 2 decades, and it looks like it includes apartments. Not sure why its relevant to this arena discussion. And the effect that dining options nearby will have on attendance for college basketball or gymnastics is overestimated, plus you could already have that with an arena near the football stadium. Outside of the new-factor the first year or so, it wont improve non-student attendance and will certainly negatively effect student attendance.

BIggest question I have is about the "if this doesnt happen, nothing will for next 20 years" comments. Why? Wheres all that annual SEC windfall going? Wont OU earn about $15 million more in the SEC? That extra annual income is enough to finance a new arena. Or is that money already spent?

[PhiAlpha]

If that is the argument why not just play the games at Paycom center? Its much more centrally located than UNP. If ease of people coming from other areas is more important than proximity to campus what would be the argument against that? Think how much time would be saved from people coming from Edmond.

UNP was sold as a "magnetic entertainment district" that would attract people from Dallas and Kansas City when it was first proposed 15 years ago. So far It has turned out to be nothing but a generic big box store / fast food corridor on a curvy road. I doubt anyone has has traveled from KCMO and DFW to shop at the UNP Kohls and Target as the developers promised. I would take these new claims of what is going to go around this arena with the same grain of salt.

Because it's 30 minutes from the city of Norman which actually would make it hard for students to go and would be a terrible environment for a regular season college basketball game?

[PhiAlpha]

The UNP site is over a mile from the rail line. It needs to be right next to a station to be effective. Another reason the Duck Pond has always been the preferred location on-campus

My prediction if this happens: OU will see a temporary boost in attendance because of the new arena. Student attendance will still suffer. In less than a decade OU will realize what a mistake they made and begin planning for an on-campus arena by the Duck Pond (north of the football operations center) and the City of Norman will be stuck with a useless arena. Look at 1st Bank Center in Broomfield, CO for a good case study.

Yeah but then they'd have to bulldoze the duck pond and park...which nobody wants. You'd either have to put it south of Lindsay or on Jenkins and Brooks.

Again, why would the students, most of which who don't live on campus and all of which already drive to LNC, not attend because they have to drive or ride a shuttle for at most 3-5 minutes longer to get there?

[SEMIweather]

Because every other sport -- including basketball -- loses a lot of money.

Football makes a ton of money and that is only increasing with time, hence the continued investment.

It's not 'lazy' or 'stupid'. Besides BoulderSooner I seriously doubt anyone on this thread has ever had season tickets (I did for years) or even bothers to go to the games (I still see a few every year). I never missed a home game as a student and drove to ever single one of them... I'm not aware of any students who don't drive to the games, so nothing will really change in that regard.

Frankly put, pretty much none of the people commenting here have any idea what they are talking about.

There are very good reasons the university president, board of regents and both OU basketball coaches are strongly in favor of this plan.

I'm not going to dig for actual receipts, but I have gone to plenty of games over the last 13 seasons (and will be going to plenty more this upcoming season, despite low expectations for how things will go in year three of the Moser era). Went to every game I could when I was a student at OU from 2010-12, despite not owning a car at the time. Learned to enjoy the walk down from Adams my freshman year, and over from Traditions West my sophomore year. Followed the team from afar for a few years while moving back home to Michigan to finish up my schooling, but was fortunate enough to move back to Norman in time for the dream season of 2015-16. Living in Moore and then OKC for the next few seasons, found myself making the drive down less and less, but COVID isolation made me reflect on how much I undervalued the LNC game experience. I then spent the first half of the 2021-22 season out of town, but have gone to 16 of 18 home games since being back in OKC. Anyways, I'm not really sure why I'm posting this. I certainly don't expect to change anyone's mind, and I know that I have no power to influence where OU basketball decides to play their home games. But I guess I just want to make a point that OU fans don't unanimously think that the LNC is a terrible venue, nor is it only OSU homers who think that moving games to a new off-campus arena isn't in OU's best interest. But ultimately, the fun thing is that at some point in the future, it does seem like we'll finally get to stop having endless theoretical arguments over this project, and get to actually see what happens in reality. I certainly hope that I'm proven wrong in my misgivings, but I have major doubts, and I suppose I think that it's worth expressing them here.

2010-11: 12 games
2011-12: 12 games
2012-13: lived in Michigan
2013-14: lived in Michigan
2014-15: lived in Michigan
2015-16: 14 games + 2 road games
2016-17: 5 games
2017-18: 7 games
2018-19: 2 games
2019-20: lived in Colorado
2020-21: COVID
2021-22: 8 games
2022-23: 14 games + 2 road games