University Town Center

[Pete]

Looks like there could be a flood of that ocean front property in Arizona to sell. Maybe I'll finance a $100 million dollar + arena with the proceeds. Seems easy enough to do with no university support, "limited" public investments with a TIF or something, etc.

OU couldn't raise money for one on campus but there's a mile long list of donors to build one at UTC... got it. OU will not be helping at all.

Not donors, investors and they are building much more than the arena -- about $800 million more.

The fact you are so angry and quick to spout a bunch of far-fetched conspiracy theories and negativity clearly exposes your agenda.

[chssooner]

Having to play basketball in a Pets Mart parking lot miles from campus off of the interstate isn't really making OU look like they are one of the "haves."

Awe, you are so cute. Pettiness is dumb. If the arena is top-notch, then it won't matter where it is. But keep trying to be cheeky.

[UrbanistPoke]

Having to play basketball in a Pets Mart parking lot miles from campus off of the interstate isn't really making OU look like they are one of the "haves."

Exactly... OU fans are so sensitive, any reasonable criticism of a dumb proposal is a lot of them.

OU does need a new arena and has for a while. Building it at UTC is an awful mistake and thinking OU isn't going to have to support it financial is irresponsible and people are either burying their head in the sand or being mislead.

If they wanted to do it right and they're buying up Campus Corner too - do it there. The area south of McFarlin Memorial United is just an old office building, apartments, and parking lots could fit this size of arena there and would effectively unite Downtown Norman and the OU Campus. There's where they should be building it or somewhere closer to campus or Downtown Norman.

[Pete]

^

Yes, thanks for the objective and 'reasonable' criticism like proclaiming OU wants to purposely go bankrupt so the state will bail them out. Or claiming 50% of revenue goes to interest expense when a quick Google search shows it is currently 4%. Or talking about a lawsuit that was settled two years ago.... On and on.

[UrbanistPoke]

Awe, you are so cute. Pettiness is dumb. If the arena is top-notch, then it won't matter where it is. But keep trying to be cheeky.

Since it's such a great idea - tell me all the off campus university arenas that are huge successes that stay booked with concerts, etc. that have less than 10,000 seats. There isn't any, but OU is different I'm sure.

[chssooner]

Since it's such a great idea - tell me all the off campus university arenas that are huge successes that stay booked with concerts, etc. that have less than 10,000 seats. There isn't any, but OU is different I'm sure.

You are too biased to have an honest conversation about this, so I will refrain from replying to you any further.

[PhiAlpha]

I will never a support an arena that is not on campus and think it’s a huge mistake. Downtown Norman would be a fine alternative but not by I-35. But I’m also not paying for it.

That's how I felt until I realized how completely unrealistic it is right now and how much Lloyd Noble is hampering the program...and would continue to hamper it going forward for 10-20 years if nothing is done soon.

[UrbanistPoke]

^

Yes, thanks for the objective and 'reasonable' criticism like proclaiming OU wants to purposely go bankrupt so the state will bail them out. Or claiming 50% of revenue goes to interest expense when a quick Google search shows it is currently 4%. Or talking about a lawsuit that was settled two years ago.... On and on.

If you can't read the credit agencies info I can't help you there. It's not hard to find.

If you really think OU hasn't made a bunch of dumb mistakes on real estate investments I can't help you there either. OU's debt is massive, you can pretend it's not.

I would love to see all these privately built arenas in suburban areas that have been financially sustainable. They don't exist.. sorry. This isn't going to be built without help somewhere (via OU in equity investment in the surrounding development, TIF or public dollars, etc.) and someone is going to be left holding the bag on operating expenses. These things don't pay for themselves. Every small privately built arena I've ever seen built in the US has gone bankrupt, and usually pretty quick.

[Pete]

The choices are not UNP vs. an on-campus facility.

It is between UNP and staying in LNC for another 10-20 years.

There are very good reasons the university is completely behind this.

[Pete]

If you can't read the credit agencies info I can't help you there. It's not hard to find.

If you really think OU hasn't made a bunch of dumb mistakes on real estate investments I can't help you there either. OU's debt is massive, you can pretend it's not.

I would love to see all these privately built arenas in suburban areas that have been financially sustainable. They don't exist.. sorry.

You keep changing the subject and spouting more vague negativity when you are proven wrong. Your first post on this thread tells everyone exactly where you are coming from and the complete lack of credibility you bring to this subject.

[UrbanistPoke]

You keep changing the subject and spouting more vague negativity when you are proven wrong. Your first post on this thread tells everyone exactly where you are coming from and the complete lack of credibility you bring to this subject.

So what exactly have I been proven wrong on again? I haven't seen a single thing.

It really is comical to think that an arena can be built with no help on UTC land but not somewhere else that would make more sense.

[BoulderSooner]

HA! Yeah, OSU with Gallagher-Iba Arena is really jealous of this proposed arena development. How will the "have nots" ever compete with OU in basketball.... Quick, someone call KU and the other have nots and tell them the news hot off the press in Norman.

GIA is a TERRIBLE place to watch basketball if you are not in the first 20 rows ..

[warreng88]

Since it's such a great idea - tell me all the off campus university arenas that are huge successes that stay booked with concerts, etc. that have less than 10,000 seats. There isn't any, but OU is different I'm sure.

OU doesn't have to worry about how they do outside of the sporting events. It will be leased to OU for sporting events.

[UrbanistPoke]

OU doesn't have to worry about how they do outside of basketball. It will be leased to OU for sporting events.

I guess you don't seem to grasp some of the points I'm making then. It does shift some responsibility away from OU to not have to own/operate the arena. That will go to City of Norman... good luck to the city and residents who will be picking up the costs. I would love to see the lease agreement between the city and OU when they get that far down the road, if they do. Either the city will charge OU a lot - which really doesn't save OU money beside the fact they can't afford to issue bonds and build an on campus arena, they'll still have a heavy cost burden on lease payments or Norman/citizens will be picking up the tab for OU to have a new arena. Sounds like a great deal, where do I sign up for that?

[FighttheGoodFight]

As I can see from this thread and others on social media this will have an uphill battle to be completed. City Council members in Norman are going to be sweating.

[UrbanistPoke]

GIA is a TERRIBLE place to watch basketball if you are not in the first 20 rows ..

Like literally every arena in the world? Even this new one for OU to play in will be the same.

[Pete]

As I can see from this thread and others on social media this will have an uphill battle to be completed. City Council members in Norman are going to be sweating.

I believe this group already has the needed support.

The amount of public investment is much smaller than the first proposal in 2017 and the County is taking a much bigger share.

[PhiAlpha]

I know they've had struggles to fill the LNC, but the apparent 8,000 seats for the new arena seems way too slight. No reason a new arena should be any less than at least 9,000 as you have to imagine a new facility (with restaurants and shops) will be a draw along with the closer distance to the metro and the move to the SEC. We'll most likely see a good boost in attendance for a good while. Smaller facility limits its uses and is short sighted.

8,000 seats is more than enough. Build it and pack people in for a change. Attendance is down across all sports, especially college basketball. In the few instances that might require a larger one...there's an 18k seat arena in OKC.

[BoulderSooner]

The choices are not UNP vs. an on-campus facility.

It is between UNP and staying in LNC for another 10-20 years.

There are very good reasons the university is completely behind this.

very much this ..


also this reduces transit time to games from north of Norman by almost 15 min each way .. (saving 30 mil) that is a huge benefit to ticket holders ..

people need to keep in mind that selling tickets is not the issue OU basketball has really ever had .. it is getting people who have tickets to show up ..

[jdross1982]

Looks like there could be a flood of that ocean front property in Arizona to sell. Maybe I'll finance a $100 million dollar + arena with the proceeds. Seems easy enough to do with no university support, "limited" public investments with a TIF or something, etc.

OU couldn't raise money for one on campus but there's a mile long list of donors to build one at UTC with "private dollars"... got it. OU will not be helping at all.

Do you not realize that UT was able to build their entire 300 mil arena with all private funds from an outside group (Oak View Group) which keeps all the revenue from non UT events for the first 35 years of existence (Opened 2022). UT owns the land (same as OU).

The dorm lawsuit, you really need to read more as your understanding of things OU is exactly what your name insinuates.

[BoulderSooner]

Like literally every arena in the world? Even this new one for OU to play in will be the same.

not true at all ..

[PhiAlpha]

Financial windfall is not true - UTC has cost the university a ton of money too. They MIGHT be revenue neutral on UTC. They have all sorts of messy real estate financing entanglements around UTC and other developments.

OU has a TON of debt for a public institution and this just flies in the face of everything university management has been saying they'd do.

I do not buy that the university isn't going to financially support this somehow. My guess is they will provide a lot of the equity via the foundation to the surrounding development to help offset the cost of the arena development. That is extremely risky. UTC isn't anything more than a glorified strip mall and always seems that OU and Norman officials want to think it's Classen Curve or Penn Square. It's not and will never be. OU's cash flow is already nearly 50% to debt payments - very high for a public university and they have a mediocre to bad credit rating for a public entity. If they keep spending like this they are going to get further debt downgrades and State of Oklahoma is eventually going to have to bail them out. Seems like that is OU's admins goals. Too big to fail essentially so lets spend and build anything we want because SEC, SEC, SEC and then let taxpayers bail out the university later when they can't make debt service payments anymore.

Add this into the Campus Corner BS and all their dorm/living public private partnership lawsuits, etc. and good grief OU is a mess.

An off campus basketball arena for a school that already could not care for any sport but football (with minor care for softball) is a stupid idea. It should at least be somewhat walk able from campus or you'll never get any students there unless they give tickets away for free. Under 10,000 seats and it will serve no purpose for concerts or other live events that could help float the facility revenue wise.

I can't think of a successful arena model in a suburban area like this that has ever created a vibrant and economically sustainable surrounding development. Most cities have a difficult time doing it in downtowns with more viable arenas. Look at Victory Park in Dallas, the retail/office in front of the arena is awful. The rest of the neighborhood is pretty decent now but that took two decades. Power and Light in KC nearly bankrupted the city. You're talking about building out a 'mixed-use' entertainment district with surrounding strip malls and not a more vibrant walk-able urban neighborhood and that retail is going to not be successful. If this had been proposed for Downtown Norman or somewhere closer to campus this would probably be a good thing but at UTC and likely more shady OU real estate financing deals, this will be a billon dollar disaster that taxpayers will look forward to bailing out.

Dude. Did you watch your game on Saturday? Don't yall have enough to deal with between being in the middle of nowhere and struggling to compete in football in what's about to be a second tier conference? The Pokes might not win a conference game this season if Gunnar Gundy is the best QB on the roster. It's a little nuts/obsessive that you're hate typing paragraphs about OU's supposed debt problem that only OSU and Texas fans seem to think is a real issue.

[PhiAlpha]

The major difference being the Galen Center is directly across the street from USC's campus.

I guess it's a good thing that this is technically on OU's campus. It's the North Campus..but campus nonetheless.

[warreng88]

8,000 seats is more than enough. Build it and pack people in for a change. Attendance is down across all sports, especially college basketball. In the few instances that might require a larger one...there's an 18k seat arena in OKC.

I was thinking smaller like 7,000 with the right layout. I was talking to my mom about OU's new softball stadium and she was surprised it wasn't larger than 3,000. I asked her what happens on off seasons when we aren't as good, the stadium looks empty. I would rather have a stadium (arena) packed that's smaller than a larger arena that can seem empty.

[chssooner]

As I can see from this thread and others on social media this will have an uphill battle to be completed. City Council members in Norman are going to be sweating.

No. You are seeing a non-resident of Norman and an OSU fan raise strawman points to try to be a contrarian. This wouldn't have been announce so publicly after thr debacle of 2017 unless the finer points have been pretty much agreed to.