New Downtown Arena

[PoliSciGuy]

As emperical evidence - This doesn't apply to OKC, but Taylor Swift's 2 concerts at Mile Hi Football Stadium @70,000 / per concert is estimated to have had a $140 million economic impact in the metro. That's not Chamber of Commerce propaganda.

Oh yeah she is a one woman economic stimulus package. Not to mention the massive bonus she gave her truck drivers.

[Bellaboo]

No I’ve been pretty consistent in saying that empirical proof that the arena will bring in $1b in revenue or that the Thunder generate that much income for the city would make me reconsider. It’s why I’ve been asking for it. Instead all I get in return is abuse and gross distortions of my positions, like your post, or anecdotes.

How 10 years of Thunder basketball has helped shape ...

The Oklahoman
https://www.oklahoman.com › thunder › 2018/08/11
Aug 11, 2018 — According to data provided to the Thunder by the city, each home game translates to $1.5 million in economic impact for OKC.

This is 5 year old - One point five million per game. That's an impact.

[PoliSciGuy]

How 10 years of Thunder basketball has helped shape ...

The Oklahoman
https://www.oklahoman.com › thunder › 2018/08/11
Aug 11, 2018 — According to data provided to the Thunder by the city, each home game translates to $1.5 million in economic impact for OKC.

This is 5 year old - One point five million per game. That's an impact.

I addressed the issues with that number and “economic impact” measures in general already. You can read them here

[traxx]

I know at least one of you guys has an extra $1billion in your pocket right now. Just go ahead and pay for this arena and let's move on.

[BG918]

I know at least one of you guys has an extra $1billion in your pocket right now. Just go ahead and pay for this arena and let's move on.

Harold Hamm couldn't self-fund it with just 5% of his net worth

[BDP]

I know at least one of you guys has an extra $1billion in your pocket right now.

Not until Tuesday at around 10pm.

[caaokc]

New Holt interview on the biggest Thunder pod Down to Dunk. https://www.youtube.com/live/feSuwv4EdjM?feature=share

Nothing really new, does mention the prairie surf site a little bit but still no site at least publicly announced yet.

[soonerguru]

Oh yeah she is a one woman economic stimulus package. Not to mention the massive bonus she gave her truck drivers.

Love her. Wish she would come to OKC again, but it's not in the cards unless they allow it to happen at GFMS.

[soonerguru]

I grad high school in 93 and our ceremony was at the Myriad/Cox/PSM. The area was desolate around, Bricktown had been going for a few years (Spaghetti Warehouse, Haunted Warehouse during Oct, a club called Pylon), midtown was prostitutes and rent by the hour motels, the Civic Center area had the rent boys, etc). Maps started the progress we see today of course, but the item not talked about is the Bombing. After that there was so much pride in our city and a movement to improve. IMO, I really think this was a huge catalyst for changing the perception of Okc. You may not remember but there was a huge hubbub about what Connie Chung said that upset locals and made me mad that we were looked at as inferior. Hosting the Hornets put us on the stage for greatness that allowed the possibility of gaining a pro team and being mentioned in articles for best places to live or secret gems. Articles that in our past would have never happened.
Polisciguy-
You want tangible proof- then seek out new Oklahomans and ask them when you are out.
One thing leads to another and having the Thunder helps grow our city.
On that note - the Okc bombing killed 167 plus the first responder for 168 but how many other people may have lost their life due to the event? I ask because a girl I was dating at the time lost her grandma hours later to a heart attack. My gf’s mom worked near there and her grandma could not get in touch and then had the heart attack. Related - I am sure. Tangible but not listed in the statistics.
I’m voting for the Arena because I believe the Thunder have been exceptional for Okc and the state.

Excellent post, and I agree, the bombing did raise the profile of the city. So many people were impressed by our city officials, fire chief, mayor, and Governor Keating. Imagine a Republican governor today inviting the Democratic president to town and treating him like an honored guest. Imagine how OKC would be viewed today with our current governor as a spokesman.

It's sad to say, but the bombing let people around the world witness the good people of our city, and recognize that we live in an actual city, with tall buildings.

The Thunder became a positive analogue of that -- a feel good, not tragic -- story that elevated our city. It was something other than a terrorist event, mass restaurant shooting, deadly tornado, or some other such sad thing that made people think about OKC.

[soonerguru]

I have to take exception to mass transit being an economic benefit to OKC. Or rather, a front burner, important investment. I think OKC is a massive, plains, car centric city that is going to require massive investment to function at the scale required to be effective. OKC is over 600 square miles, is well served with cars, and our streetcar was a $125 million toy. Hard for me to believe we could build an effective system for less than $10 billion total. And I’m trying to understand how many of our 1.3-ish million people would be made better served and more fully employed. And how that drives population growth and wealth?

This is a myopic view. Transportation is expected by younger people. No one is saying we can provide effective transit for our massive square mile boundaries, but we can improve our central city transportation, as we are. It's a quality of life amenity. Sorry if you disagree but I'm sure you agree that even if you don't like or use every city service, there are others you do use that you like that others may not. It's why OKC is such a great and well-run city.

[April in the Plaza]

Excellent post, and I agree, the bombing did raise the profile of the city. So many people were impressed by our city officials, fire chief, mayor, and Governor Keating. Imagine a Republican governor today inviting the Democratic president to town and treating him like an honored guest. Imagine how OKC would be viewed today with our current governor as a spokesman.

It's sad to say, but the bombing let people around the world witness the good people of our city, and recognize that we live in an actual city, with tall buildings.

The Thunder became a positive analogue of that -- a feel good, not tragic -- story that elevated our city. It was something other than a terrorist event, mass restaurant shooting, deadly tornado, or some other such sad thing that made people think about OKC.

I think it would go better than you might imagine, to be honest.

[Dob Hooligan]

This is a myopic view. Transportation is expected by younger people. No one is saying we can provide effective transit for our massive square mile boundaries, but we can improve our central city transportation, as we are. It's a quality of life amenity. Sorry if you disagree but I'm sure you agree that even if you don't like or use every city service, there are others you do use that you like that others may not. It's why OKC is such a great and well-run city.

Agree. Did not mean to give the impression I was anti-public transportation. My intention was to emphasize that if public transportation was a truly tangible, empirically measurable civic investment, I think it would require a massive public cash outlay that would not gain the popular support needed to make it a 4X benefit @PoliSciGuy was referring to in his comment.

[PhiAlpha]

Excellent post, and I agree, the bombing did raise the profile of the city. So many people were impressed by our city officials, fire chief, mayor, and Governor Keating. Imagine a Republican governor today inviting the Democratic president to town and treating him like an honored guest. Imagine how OKC would be viewed today with our current governor as a spokesman.

It's sad to say, but the bombing let people around the world witness the good people of our city, and recognize that we live in an actual city, with tall buildings.

The Thunder became a positive analogue of that -- a feel good, not tragic -- story that elevated our city. It was something other than a terrorist event, mass restaurant shooting, deadly tornado, or some other such sad thing that made people think about OKC.

Ive lost a ton of respect for Stitt over the years but I have no doubt that it would play out just like that if, god forbid, something remotely similar on that scale were to happen today. Politics always has and likely will take a back seat to massive, national tragedies that are perceived as attacks against the country.

[soonerguru]

Ive lost a ton of respect for Stitt over the years but I have no doubt that it would play out just like that if, god forbid, something remotely similar on that scale were to happen today. Politics always has and likely will take a back seat to massive, national tragedies that are perceived as attacks against the country.

Perhaps you are right, but Governor Keating was an especially articulate and classy guy (if you excuse his joke about murdering teachers). Stitt comes across as a buffoon most of the time, and he's extremely partisan. I'll leave it at that.

[Shortsyeararound]

Excellent post, and I agree, the bombing did raise the profile of the city. So many people were impressed by our city officials, fire chief, mayor, and Governor Keating. Imagine a Republican governor today inviting the Democratic president to town and treating him like an honored guest. Imagine how OKC would be viewed today with our current governor as a spokesman.

It's sad to say, but the bombing let people around the world witness the good people of our city, and recognize that we live in an actual city, with tall buildings.

The Thunder became a positive analogue of that -- a feel good, not tragic -- story that elevated our city. It was something other than a terrorist event, mass restaurant shooting, deadly tornado, or some other such sad thing that made people think about OKC.

Thank you!
And I agree with yours. Okc, once known only for tragic events, has so much positiveness going on for us now.

[PhiAlpha]

Perhaps you are right, but Governor Keating was an especially articulate and classy guy (if you excuse his joke about murdering teachers). Stitt comes across as a buffoon most of the time, and he's extremely partisan. I'll leave it at that.

All fair and agree.

[Laramie]

Thunder Wire: Thunder GM Sam Presti comments . . .

Presti: "Now, part of it is because of how we started 15 years ago when we arrived. That starting point, like from scratch, from nothing, from no logo — this was nonexistent — you build relationships, and I think that you also recognize that the mutual value of those relationships. So that’s the greatest thing when I hear Mayor Holt speak.

“And those relationships will be important as time goes on, but I’m really confident that they’ll be a great partnership as there has been since the day we arrived. I like to think part of that is also because we’ve tried to be a great partner with the community.

Link: https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/...blicly-funded/


.

[gopokes88]

This will pass 65 to 35 probably. All the institutions are lining up support and the # of strongly favor voters far outnumber strongly opposed.

[PhiAlpha]

This will pass 65 to 35 probably. All the institutions are lining up support and the # of strongly favor voters far outnumber strongly opposed.

I will be interested to see if the Fraternal Order of Police and OKC Firefighters Association will do their usual and be outspoken opponents of this. Given that it seems like their could be some pretty intense public blowback for anyone who doesn't support this if for some crazy reason it doesn't pass and the team were to leave, that it wouldn't really be worth it to them to campaign hard against it.

[warreng88]

Just got back from a short vacation to Orlando, specifically the Disney area. It was mostly a resort stay so we hung out at the hotel, swam at the pool, ate at the restaurants, etc. I am a very outgoing person and tend to talk to just about anyone. Over three days, we end up talking to different people and the usual of where are you from, what do you do, etc comes up. I talked to a family from England (SW of London), someone from Florida, California and Maine. Immediately they mentioned the Thunder. To compare going back a bit, in 1997, I went on a mission trip to Kentucky and there were a bunch of other high school kids from all over the country there. When I told them we were from Oklahoma, they talked about the bombing, asked if we rode horses to school, did we live in tents, etc.

I have said it before and I will say it again, I am not concerned about the ROI of owning a basketball team when it comes to how much it brings to the city on a per game basis. We are getting recognized on a national and international level due to the association with the Thunder. And I don't know how many on the board really closely follow the Thunder, but the team is in a really good spot for the next five or so years with the roster. The worst thing to happen would be not voting for this, the team gets sold to an ownership in another city/state (say, Vegas or Seattle) that moves there and wins a championship a few years later. OKC would never get another high quality professional sports team for a really long time because we couldn't support one that was already here.

[Laramie]

^ ^ ^

Just look at what happened to Seattle; they still haven't obtained an NBA franchise. NBA is the only league the Emerald City doesn't have represented in such a beautiful city and great financial market.

Seattle should be a four franchise major league market with MSA of 4,034,248 - 15th, City population 749,256 - 10th.

There is '0' chance OKC or Oklahoma will ever get a Fab Four major league franchise if this doesn't pass--even if you have to pursue this beyond the first vote--if it fails.

Oklahoma City MSA has 1,459,380 - 42nd, that's 459,380 residents beyond the 1 million per major league franchise needed to support a Big League franchise. City population - 20th, 694,800.

Build Oklahoma City a Taj Mahal arena that will be the 'envy' of many NBA cities throughout the league--seal this deal.

[gopokes88]

Just got back from a short vacation to Orlando, specifically the Disney area. It was mostly a resort stay so we hung out at the hotel, swam at the pool, ate at the restaurants, etc. I am a very outgoing person and tend to talk to just about anyone. Over three days, we end up talking to different people and the usual of where are you from, what do you do, etc comes up. I talked to a family from England (SW of London), someone from Florida, California and Maine. Immediately they mentioned the Thunder. To compare going back a bit, in 1997, I went on a mission trip to Kentucky and there were a bunch of other high school kids from all over the country there. When I told them we were from Oklahoma, they talked about the bombing, asked if we rode horses to school, did we live in tents, etc.

I have said it before and I will say it again, I am not concerned about the ROI of owning a basketball team when it comes to how much it brings to the city on a per game basis. We are getting recognized on a national and international level due to the association with the Thunder. And I don't know how many on the board really closely follow the Thunder, but the team is in a really good spot for the next five or so years with the roster. The worst thing to happen would be not voting for this, the team gets sold to an ownership in another city/state (say, Vegas or Seattle) that moves there and wins a championship a few years later. OKC would never get another high quality professional sports team for a really long time because we couldn't support one that was already here.

You don't run ROI's on status symbols, and the Thunder is highest available status symbol OKC will ever get.

[soonerguru]

I will be interested to see if the Fraternal Order of Police and OKC Firefighters Association will do their usual and be outspoken opponents of this. Given that it seems like their could be some pretty intense public blowback for anyone who doesn't support this if for some crazy reason it doesn't pass and the team were to leave, that it wouldn't really be worth it to them to campaign hard against it.

No. I would be shocked if they would come out against this. It also doesn't fit with what they've done recently.

1. They both negotiated pay raises and additional resources recently. They don't have the acrimonious relationship with the city they formerly did.

2. They supported MAPS 4

3. They supported the two most recent GO Bonds.

The time the police union was all up in it was MAPS 3. Remember "Not THIS MAPS?" Yeah, dumb campaign.

[catch22]

The more events hosted at the city’s arena means more overtime shifts for them for crowd control, general security, as well as special assignments/off the clock deals for VIP escorts etc. I don’t think the police would start too much of a stink for this as it guarantees extra money in the member’s pockets.

[April in the Plaza]

The more events hosted at the city’s arena means more overtime shifts for them for crowd control, general security, as well as special assignments/off the clock deals for VIP escorts etc. I don’t think the police would start too much of a stink for this as it guarantees extra money in the member’s pockets.

Agreed. And it’s definitely a far better gig than having to fight actual crime on the streets.