New Downtown Arena

[Laramie]

I would assume MAPS 4 is going to blow the original collection estimates put of the water. Between growth and inflation, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw $200M in excess of original estimates. While some of that will need to go to projects that will now cost more, I think excess plus original allocation to Paycom Center represents an easy $200M, then add at least $350M from owners.

That's halfway there and then every year after 2028 adds probably $160M, we'd be at $1B by 2031 and if this is a $1B+ project, there will be at least $200M+ of work that can be completed after the stadium is open to the public.

And Pete also mentioned it, bit the city is sitting on a huge amount of TIF funds.

Sounds logical. So, what's your prediction when the PSM site be demolished and arena construction begins.

Also Holt dropped the biggest hint when he talked about the timelines: Municipal Auditorium, Fairgrounds Arena, Myriad Convention Center, Paycom Center to the new NBA arena development.

[warreng88]

This will be separate from MAPS 4 -- the arena collections won't start until MAPS 4 expires in 2028. The sales tax will expire then but project construction typically stretches out beyond that date.

There is MAPS 4 money already allocated for the new arena. Most of it came from plans to improve Paycom which are generally now on hold.

Thanks for that. I assume this will be similar to the original MAPS where it was just an extension from the original one and be sold as such. To Teo9969's point, $350 owner contribution (I think it would be less, closer to $200), $200 in funds allotted for the paycom expansion, $200 in TIF would put us at $750. I think it will be closer to $600. Then another $400 in MAPS funds over three years doesn't seem too unreasonable.

The main thing the city needs to very deliberately explain is why the Paycom arena isn't good enough. I have explained to my wife and some friends why and they don't completely get it. They think we can spend $50 million and get a lot more and a new arena isn't necessary. I hope the city has a plan to do that.

[Laramie]

Thanks for that. I assume this will be similar to the original MAPS where it was just an extension from the original one and be sold as such. To Teo9969's point, $350 owner contribution (I think it would be less, closer to $200), $200 in funds allotted for the paycom expansion, $200 in TIF would put us at $750. I think it will be closer to $600. Then another $400 in MAPS funds over three years doesn't seem too unreasonable.

The main thing the city needs to very deliberately explain is why the Paycom arena isn't good enough. I have explained to my wife and some friends why and they don't completely get it. They think we can spend $50 million and get a lot more and a new arena isn't necessary. I hope the city has a plan to do that.

Anyone who has been paying attention already know that it's the total square footage of the Paycom Center and to bring in the fan friendly amenities like a balcony terrace and more room for concession and restaurant space.

You can't expand the current Paycom Center to do the above, it's cost prohibitive since the Paycom Center doesn't have the space to allow for expansion. Hence, build a new arena.

Also how much is a significant contribution when you don't know how much a new arena will cost.

[Canoe]

Then you're not getting construction started before 2026. You won't see a major ownership contribution because they are going to hold on to that amount of funds to continue to grow interest.

Delayed gratification is seen as a virtue in this town; and looking at the ownership group I think they would agree.

[warreng88]

Anyone who has been paying attention already know that it's the total square footage of the Paycom Center and to bring in the fan friendly amenities like a balcony terrace and more room for concession and restaurant space.

You can't expand the current Paycom Center to do the above, it's cost prohibitive since the Paycom Center doesn't have the space to allow for expansion. Hence, build a new arena.

Also how much is a significant contribution when you don't know how much a new arena will cost.

I get it and I understand it, what I am saying is I cannot go out and try to convince the voting population to vote yes on this, the city has to do a good job of that. Also, most people aren't really well informed by being on okctalk, they will vote however their political beliefs a-line.

We have been told the cost will be around a billion dollars. Your definition of significant will be different than mine and to random taxpayer. A lot of people think the ownership should pay for all of it.

[Thunderbolt]

You can be sure most of this is already decided.

They just have to finalize the agreement with the Thunder ownership, whip up some flashy renderings, create the budget with the sources of funds, then present it to the public probably in September for a December vote.

I still expect it will be on the Cox site and cost about $1 billion. This has been the consensus of everyone that knows anything about this project and it hasn't changed in the last year.

I understand the appeal of the Cox site, but what about the large lot between Scissortail and Myriad Gardens? Isn't it owned by Bob Howard (one of the Thunder owners)? Seems like you could have a transformational design that connects the parks and entire city, it's "free" land (if part of the ownership group's contribution to the project) and you don't have to disrupt the growing film business by demoing the film studio.

[LordGerald]

I understand the appeal of the Cox site, but what about the large lot between Scissortail and Myriad Gardens? Isn't it owned by Bob Howard (one of the Thunder owners)? Seems like you could have a transformational design that connects the parks and entire city, it's "free" land (if part of the ownership group's contribution to the project) and you don't have to disrupt the growing film business by demoing the film studio.

Because the city doesn't own that site. They already own the Cox/PS site and that alone would save several millions.

[PhiAlpha]

I understand the appeal of the Cox site, but what about the large lot between Scissortail and Myriad Gardens? Isn't it owned by Bob Howard (one of the Thunder owners)? Seems like you could have a transformational design that connects the parks and entire city, it's "free" land (if part of the ownership group's contribution to the project) and you don't have to disrupt the growing film business by demoing the film studio.

The city would have to pay for that site and it’s smaller than the cox site which is already a big obsolete building that takes away form the middle of downtown.

[cornhusker740]

Is there much concern voters won't approve a new arena?

The attendance numbers kind of have me worried about that. Even with one of the largest turnarounds in the league this year, the Thunder still ranked dead last with an average of about 15,000 fans per game.

It was a slight improvement from 2021-22 when they ranked 3rd to last with an average a little under 15,000.

Between COVID and the downturn the team had a few years ago, I can see why people turned away but that they didn't come back more than they did this year is a little concerning.

[chssooner]

Is there much concern voters won't approve a new arena?

The attendance numbers kind of have me worried about that. Even with one of the largest turnarounds in the league this year, the Thunder still ranked dead last with an average of about 15,000 fans per game.

It was a slight improvement from 2021-22 when they ranked 3rd to last with an average a little under 15,000.

Between COVID and the downturn the team had a few years ago, I can see why people turned away but that they didn't come back more than they did this year is a little concerning.

No.

My short response is because there is nothing else that needs to be said on this. It has been asked 50 different ways, but the answer is the same.

[G.Walker]

We got good fast, and stayed that way for a long time, and got spoiled. As long as we can sell tickets, we will keep going. Every NBA team who is not that good has a hard time filling an arena. But OKC's population has grown by alot since 2008. we should be fine.

[April in the Plaza]

Is there much concern voters won't approve a new arena?

The attendance numbers kind of have me worried about that. Even with one of the largest turnarounds in the league this year, the Thunder still ranked dead last with an average of about 15,000 fans per game.

It was a slight improvement from 2021-22 when they ranked 3rd to last with an average a little under 15,000.

Between COVID and the downturn the team had a few years ago, I can see why people turned away but that they didn't come back more than they did this year is a little concerning.

It will be approved by a large margin, but I think a decent number of folks have soured on the game day experience. The constant music/defense chants/etc. during play is extremely annoying to some folks.

[PhiAlpha]

Is there much concern voters won't approve a new arena?

The attendance numbers kind of have me worried about that. Even with one of the largest turnarounds in the league this year, the Thunder still ranked dead last with an average of about 15,000 fans per game.

It was a slight improvement from 2021-22 when they ranked 3rd to last with an average a little under 15,000.

Between COVID and the downturn the team had a few years ago, I can see why people turned away but that they didn't come back more than they did this year is a little concerning.

You do realize we were averaging a sell out during the 2019-2020 season which was the last season before Covid and trading Chris Paul and with maybe one exception (probably was about 99%) had done so since 2008…right?

and actually the Wizards were last in 22-23. Average attendance…isn’t a good measure. Need to use percentage

[BoulderSooner]

You do realize we were averaging a sell out during the 2019-2020 season which was the last season before Covid and trading Chris Paul and with maybe one exception (probably was about 99%) had done so since 2008…right?

and actually the Wizards were last in 22-23. Average attendance…isn’t a good measure. Need to use percentage

the thunder being the only team in the entire NBA to not allow any fans in the 20-21 season .. turned off a bunch of season ticket holders ..

[PhiAlpha]

the thunder being the only team in the entire NBA to not allow any fans in the 20-21 season .. turned off a bunch of season ticket holders ..

was a great season to suck lol

[SEMIweather]

It will be approved by a large margin, but I think a decent number of folks have soured on the game day experience. The constant music/defense chants/etc. during play is extremely annoying to some folks.

Was thinking about getting half-season tickets for this next season, but ultimately decided to renew my OU basketball tickets instead for exactly this reason.

[king183]

the thunder being the only team in the entire NBA to not allow any fans in the 20-21 season .. turned off a bunch of season ticket holders ..

That’s okay. They’re being replaced quickly by new season ticket holders.

[PoliSciGuy]

It will be approved by a large margin, but I think a decent number of folks have soured on the game day experience. The constant music/defense chants/etc. during play is extremely annoying to some folks.

I think more than enough folks are filling in the gap left by those folks who soured. This is why my kids love it - constant interaction and participation. It explains why the NBA has one of the youngest fanbases in all of sports, especially if old folks are souring on it.

[April in the Plaza]

I think more than enough folks are filling in the gap left by those folks who soured. This is why my kids love it - constant interaction and participation. It explains why the NBA has one of the youngest fanbases in all of sports, especially if old folks are souring on it.

That's fair. I mean, I suppose they have to do it because there wouldn't be much of an atmosphere without the music, and they need something to drown out all of the bad language used by players and coaches. I imagine that folks in the lower bowl would hear some pretty bad stuff but for the music.

[Rover]

It will be approved by a large margin, but I think a decent number of folks have soured on the game day experience. The constant music/defense chants/etc. during play is extremely annoying to some folks.

There’s always watching it at home in your recliner.

It’s the energy and activity that gets most people juiced. Some just want to eat and doze in front of the fireplace and tv.

[Jake]

was a great season to suck lol

Not allowing fans that season was an act of mercy.

[Thunderbolt]

Important to remember how much season tickets impact attendance. Last summer the Thunder were coming off a terrible season, lost their star draft pick to an offseason injury, were predicted to finish in the bottom five and were surrounded by tanking narratives - of course 2022-23 season tickets aren't going to sell!!!

I'll be really curious to see how those numbers go up this year (and they will) given the talent of the young core and serious case for them to be a playoff team.

[Jersey Boss]

Was thinking about getting half-season tickets for this next season, but ultimately decided to renew my OU basketball tickets instead for exactly this reason.

If OU doesn't show marked improvement over the previous season it will be real quiet at the LNC.

[king183]

Some folks online accidentally watched the 2022 State of the City and thought that was it.

Yep. It turns out the guy I was following was “live” tweeting last year’s SotC on accident. Hence my confusion why so little seemed to be mentioned on the arena.

[PhiAlpha]

Not allowing fans that season was an act of mercy.

LOL very true