New Downtown Arena

[Laramie]

Oh believe me, I'm listening... Just because I don't agree doesn't mean I'm not reading the arguments being posted.

I watched this forum back when we built the Riversports Rapids facility and many posters were in awe about the pricetag of keeping that
facility open. Now, an opportunity to be apart of the Olympics--where are the naysayers now.

...and as far as the space the Paycom Center arena occupies, just don't see that much building going on DT or in the Core that would
warrant demolition of the Paycom Center once a new venue is built.

[gopokes88]

Paycom is getting torn down.

[Mississippi Blues]

Paycom is getting torn down.

I usually dislike succinct responses during larger discussions but this is one of those times it works perfectly.

[jn1780]

Oh believe me, I'm listening... Just because I don't agree doesn't mean I'm not reading the arguments being posted.

I watched this forum back when we built the Riversports Rapids facility and many posters were in awe about the pricetag of keeping that
facility open. Now, an opportunity to be apart of the Olympics--where are the naysayers now.

...and as far as the space the Paycom Center arena occupies, just don't see that much building going on DT or in the Core that would
warrant demolition of the Paycom Center once a new venue is built.

Then you were watching when we had a similar discussion about the Cox Center. As soon as the new Convention Center opened, the Cox was immediately closed to the public and turned into the movie studio. In retrospect, the deal the city made with Prairie Surf Studios was a temporary stopgap until a new arena was announced and built. Obviously, it would make no sense to make an arena announcement in 2020 to 2021 for a very obvious reason.

Scott mentioned a few pages back that the Cox Center was around 20 years after Paycom was built. That's because it had another use as a convention center. The actual arena set empty over 90% of the time. While Paycom is nicer, it has no other use besides being an arena. A role that a new arena would assume and to a lesser degree the smaller arena being built at the fairgrounds.

Does it suck that millions of dollars have been invested in Paycom? Sure, but that's called a sunk cost. You can tell people until your face turns blue that they 'lack imagination', but there are only so many things an arena can be turned into. Financial realities of keeping a facility of that size going will always win in the end.


The Riversports Rapids facility example given is just silly. Its being used exactly what its being built for. If there were a nicer Rapids facility built down the street, the Las Angeles Olympic committee would obviously be looking at that facility.

[Laramie]

The Cox convention center was closed because it couldn't be used as a convention center per the Omni agreement.

We lost the FFA 10,000 attendees ($9 million economic) impact convention to Tulsa because we wouldn't commit long tern for it being held in the Paycom Center. You think it's going to get any better when we are down to one arena again.

We are going to be right back in the same situation.

As for the PSM studio, it couldn't be used as a convention center under the agreement we have with the Omni. The agreement with the Omni is the obstacle we will have every time there's a hotel development involved.eg: The Boardwalk/Dream Hotel Development (not the residential portion).

What will you put at a demolished Paycom Center site, no one is going to build a hotel there without TIF funds--Residential 'yes' as we have planned with the Boardwalk/Dream Hotel Development. DT hotels are what we will need to attract future events.

My best guess would be existing hotel expansion. Does the Omni agreement interfere with hotel expansion--which IMO would be costly.

.

[Laramie]

Review the Omni - Oklahoma City Hotel Agreement:

Oklahoma City would pay $85 million for Omni hotel in proposed deal
Steve Lackmeyer
A conceptual design is shown for the $235.5 million, 600-room Omni convention hotel in downtown Oklahoma City. In an agreement with the city, the hotel has pledged to build a AAA four-diamond rating with three to five restaurants and retail at the ground floor. [Rendering provided]

Ten months of negotiations with Omni are wrapped up and the Oklahoma City Council is set to consider an agreement for a $235.5 million, 600-room convention hotel that will require $85.4 million in public assistance.

The 45-year agreement, to be presented Tuesday, also would prohibit the use of tax increment financing and other city assistance for any other hotels downtown with the exception of First National Center. For the entirety of the agreement, the Omni would be the city's official and only “convention center hotel.”

LInk: https://www.oklahoman.com/story/busi...l/60588157007/

Source Oklahoman: July 14, 2017

[jn1780]

The Cox convention center was closed because it couldn't be used as a convention center per the Omni agreement.

We lost the FFA 10,000 attendees ($9 million economic) impact convention to Tulsa because we wouldn't commit long tern for it being held in the Paycom Center. You think it's going to get any better when we are down to one arena again.

We are going to be right back in the same situation.

As for the PSM studio, it couldn't be used as a convention center under the agreement we have with the Omni. The agreement with the Omni is the obstacle we will have every time there's a hotel development involved.eg: The Boardwalk/Dream Hotel Development (not the residential portion).

What will you put at a demolished Paycom Center site, no one is going to build a hotel there without TIF funds--Residential 'yes' as we have planned with the Boardwalk/Dream Hotel Development. DT hotels are what we will need to attract future events.

My best guess would be existing hotel expansion. Does the Omni agreement interfere with hotel expansion--which IMO would be costly.

.

And the city entered into the Omni agreement because it was a no brainer. Beside the FFA, Cox Center wouldn't have attracted the same level of conventions we would want anyway. Certainly not the ones with deep enough pockets to justify the cox centers operating expenses. FFA is an edge case, Should the city take a loss on operating expenses on a few edge cases?

I'm not saying the city is going to go out and bull doze the Paycom the day after a new arena opens (you seem to be putting words in everyone's mouths). But eventually that's what is going to happen due to financial reasons. Memphis sat on the Pyramid for 5 years with it abandoned before Bass Pro came along and the city had to provide incentives for that to happen. Would they have sat on it that long if it it wasn't a local cultural icon? If I had a guess I would say no.

You mentioned Freedom Hall, that is built on a site that is basically the equivalent of the OK State Fair Park. It wouldn't be around if they built the Yum center across the street.

[Laramie]

I'm not saying the city is going to go out and bull doze the Paycom the day after a new arena opens (you seem to be putting words in everyone's mouths).

Where did I say that--the day after a new arena opens--put words into everyone's mouths. Find those quotes Please.

Personally, the longer it takes for the city to make a decision on the Paycom Center site, much like they have done with the PSM site--the better it
will be for a good solid decision on what will be done with the site.

A new arena with more total square footage, similar capacity IMO to replace Paycom Center and put OKC on the top ten arenas in the NBA will be our number #1 goal.

.

[Thunderbolt]

Where did I say that--the day after a new arena opens--put words into everyone's mouths. Find those quotes Please.

Personally, the longer it takes for the city to make a decision on the Paycom Center site, much like they have done with the PSM site--the better it
will be for a good solid decision on what will be done with the site.

A new arena with more total square footage, similar capacity IMO to replace Paycom Center and put OKC on the top ten arenas in the NBA will be our number #1 goal.

.

I don't think anyone is advocating for taking a wrecking ball to Paycom without a plan and just having the land sit vacant like the Bob Howard lot. But it will eventually come down when a plan is set into motion (hopefully quickly).

The Paycom lot will be across the street (or katty corner) to the Omni, Myriad Gardens, Scissortail Park, world-class new NBA arena, Dream Hotel project and potential development of the Bob Howard lot. It will be the most valuable block downtown and the city has flexibility on how to develop it because it owns the land.

[Shortsyeararound]

Knock down the Cox and build the new arena on that spot. Knock the Paycom down and close off Reno (reroute tram) and make an outdoor experience for game days in the leveled land. Could work.

[SEMIweather]

Knock down the Cox and build the new arena on that spot. Knock the Paycom down and close off Reno (reroute tram) and make an outdoor experience for game days in the leveled land. Could work.

Look at the footprint of the Cox site compared to the footprint of Paycom, they will have enough room to build the new arena and an outdoor experience on the Cox site.

[BoulderSooner]

Look at the footprint of the Cox site compared to the footprint of Paycom, they will have enough room to build the new arena and an outdoor experience on the Cox site.

that is the main issue with the paycom it has the smallest footprint in the league .. the new arena will have a much much bigger footprint .

[jn1780]

Where did I say that--the day after a new arena opens--put words into everyone's mouths. Find those quotes Please.

Personally, the longer it takes for the city to make a decision on the Paycom Center site, much like they have done with the PSM site--the better it
will be for a good solid decision on what will be done with the site.

A new arena with more total square footage, similar capacity IMO to replace Paycom Center and put OKC on the top ten arenas in the NBA will be our number #1 goal.

.

My apologies if you didn't heavily imply it with this statement.

What will you put at a demolished Paycom Center site, no one is going to build a hotel there without TIF funds--Residential 'yes' as we have planned with the Boardwalk/Dream Hotel Development. DT hotels are what we will need to attract future events.

Anyways we will have to agree to disagree. The city isn't going to sale the Paycom to the first bidder for dirt cheap, but it isn't also going to sit on a vacant arena for several years waiting for a 'dream' offer.

I'm sure most on here can agree that this argument will be repeated a dozen times before a new arena is built.

[jn1780]

that is the main issue with the paycom it has the smallest footprint in the league .. the new arena will have a much much bigger footprint .

I was looking at Google Earth Pro out of curiosity and both Crypto Center and Madison Square would both easily fit on the Cox site with lots of room to spare. A Thunder experience site would be a great use of 'Potential expansion land'.

[gopokes88]

I usually dislike succinct responses during larger discussions but this is one of those times it works perfectly.

Literally not worth the breath or brain power.

It’s already been decided. Same thing with the location of the new arena.

[Laramie]

My apologies if you didn't heavily imply it with this statement.

Anyways we will have to agree to disagree. The city isn't going to sale the Paycom to the first bidder for dirt cheap, but it isn't also going to sit on a vacant arena for several years waiting for a 'dream' offer.

I'm sure most on here can agree that this argument will be repeated a dozen times before a new arena is built.

Agree to disagree... Always Appreciate you for your response. We all want the best for OKC. Excited about the new arena regardless of what happens to the Paycom Center.

As mentioned before, we should hear from Mayor Holt in (one week) Thursday, July 20th - '23 State of the City Address.11 a.m. - 1 p.m.' Hope he reveals a progress report on the new arena: https://www.okcchamber.com/index.php...tateCity7_6_23

[Laramie]

Mayor Holt's State of the City Address (SCA) is Thursday, July 20, 2023 - 11 a.m. - 1 p.m., (five days from today) we should hear more on the dialogue between the Thunder ownership/City representatives on the new downtown arena development.

State of the City Address: hhttps://www.okcchamber.com/index.ph...ty7_6_23ttp://

Following a full year ago (SCA) - Thursday, July 14) what updates are you expecting to hear from our mayor...

[Laramie]

.
^ ^ ^

Lucky number three (3) days til the State of the City Address. Provided a link above if tickets to this event are still available.

Best of luck City of Oklahoma City and OKCTalk.com posters.

.

[caaokc]

Are they revealing renderings? Or just the general price, plan, etc

[chssooner]

Are they revealing renderings? Or just the general price, plan, etc

Price and plans. No budget yet to base renderings off of.

[April in the Plaza]

Price and plans. No budget yet to base renderings off of.

What is the guess on the City's share of the costs? Based on the way Holt has been acting around town, I'm betting they will ask the City for 80% or more.

[chssooner]

What is the guess on the City's share of the costs? Based on the way Holt has been acting around town, I'm betting they will ask the City for 80% or more.

That seems about right. The owners don't seem the kind to build an arena for civic love. They will take whatever handout the city gives them, and ask for as much as possible (wouldn't surprise me if they asked for a fully-funded arena). But that would likely have been talked down to 75% to 80%.

[Laramie]

There's only one billionaire in the Thunder ownership group (Tulsa businessman, George Kaiser and one truly 3-figure multimillionaire Clay Bennett. The remaining members of the ownership are 2 and 1 figure millionaires.

Aubrey McClendon an original Professional Basketball Club LLC ownership member to purchase the NBA Supersonics in 2006 was estimated to have a net worth of $500 million at the time of his death.

Personally just don't see the ownership being a contributor to a new state-of-the-art NBA spec arena, let's see the vision for a new venue.

[BoulderSooner]

There's only one billionaire in the Thunder ownership group (Tulsa businessman, George Kaiser and one truly 3-figure multimillionaire Clay Bennett. The remaining members of the ownership are 2 and 1 figure millionaires.

Aubrey McClendon an original Professional Basketball Club LLC ownership member to purchase the NBA Supersonics in 2006 was estimated to have a net worth of $500 million at the time of his death.

Personally just don't see the ownership being a contributor to a new state-of-the-art NBA spec arena, let's see the vision for a new venue.

lol this is not remotely true ..

the thunder very likely have more then 1 billionaire in the ownerships group ..

and they have at least 7 that are "hundred" millionaires ... in net worth ..

[shai2022]

lol this is not remotely true ..

the thunder very likely have more then 1 billionaire in the ownerships group ..

and they have at least 7 that are "hundred" millionaires ... in net worth ..

No...? lol. They have 1 billionaire, like Laramie said, who probably couldn't care less if a new arena is built in okc. If this doesn't pass, the team goes too.